best wood to rebuild a circular mill

[mikes47jeep]

Hi all

I picked up an Ireland left hand mill with a 48" blade

The iron parts are in excellent condition, but the wood is getting soft.

I was wondering, what is the best wood to use to rebuild a mill?

I was told ash was a good idea because of its strength and ability to absorb shock

However the supplier I'm going to I can get oak or maple for the same price

Are there any advantages from one to another?

Best regards

Mike

[eastberkshirecustoms]

Steel.... 

[duck_nutt]

ours is on railroad crossties...

[mikes47jeep]

I'm talking about the husk, carriage and track bed

As far as the foundation I will be pouring concrete pilings.

Steel is out of the question, too expensive for a hobby mill, and I'm better with a saw and hammer, than a welder

Mike

[Jeff]

What part of the country are you in?  That would help in species recommendations.

[mikes47jeep]

I'm in North East Pennsylvania

[bandmiller2]

Mike,I  had the same question when I rebuilt my old Chase-De Lane mill.Origionally the mill manuf. used southern hard pine.The biggie is stability,in fact its more important than stregnth.Our northern hardwoods are too twisty.When i was setting up my mill the power co. was replacing high line poles and cross arms in the neighborhood.I remilled the douglas fir cross arms ,clear and stable beautifull wood.My husk is a Lane #1 cast iron,but I used the 4"x8" dougie fir under the track.I would not be afrade to use white pine under the track if cut large enough,and had a roof over it.Old used timbers remilled is best if you can find them.If you use oak or ash mill them oversized,let them cure and recut to size. Frank C.

[mikes47jeep]

well thats settled im going to go with ash, seems to be a good idea

now duck_nut has me thinking, can i just set up ties like railroad track to place my mill on?

or would it move around too much?

Mike

[eastberkshirecustoms]

Yeah it's too bad you weren't more local. I have a bunch of antique 10"x10" hand hewed beams I'm trying to sell.  I believe they are hemlock though. I'll probably end up cutting them up and feeding them to the furnace :(.

[mikes47jeep]

well your not too too far berkshire NY is only 70 miles one way for me

how long are they?

[Woodchuck53]

Around here at 25 cents a foot old telephone poles squared on 2 sides is a good reuse of them and the old ones are still treated better than new stuff. The power co. will let you pick and choose what you want and most times load you out if your not in a big hurry. And like I said a good reuse of some pretty good material. Chuck

[eastberkshirecustoms]

well your not too too far berkshire NY is only 70 miles one way for me

how long are they?

I have (4) 16' and (4) 20'.  I actually have a guy stopping by over the weekend to look at them. I've had several calls on them already, but think I'm asking too much at $50 per timber. I think for your use, they would have to be trued up. The ol' timers definitely had skill (and way more patience than me) to make them, but I don't think they are that precise. I often wondered why they hand hewed them when there was originally a water powered mill on the property that made 12"-24" wide planks. Why not just saw them? I was going to resaw them when my mill is complete, but don't really want to mess with all those hand made nails- most times they just break instead of pulling out. Anyway, I'll let you know if I still have them after the weekend...

[Ron Wenrich]

My 2 cents.  Ash splits really well.  You don't see it used in many types of construction.  There's a reason for that. 

Those old husks and tracks were put on softwoods when they were made.  Considering that a lot of those old mills were made in the NE, and they had access to the hardwoods; its curious that they never used them. 

We had one that was rebuilt on Doug fir.  That was pretty stable.  If you can get heart pine, I think you would have a pretty stable foundation.  Hemlock could be OK if there is no shake.  If I remember correctly, the track was on a 4x4, the carriage was the same, and the husk was a 4x8.  If you get these sawed, make sure that its center cut.  You don't want to have these split from a 4x8, for example. 

Stability is the key.  You can always engineer strength in your supports.

[bandmiller2]

Mike, my first circular mill I put on steel roof trusses,I took the crown out of them and they worked well, strong and light. Sometimes used they can be bought right.

[Dakota]

My Dad replaced the husks and track timbers with ponderosa pine.  He found a place that would let him dump his timbers in their treatment tanks for a mimimal cost.  That was 20 years ago and they are still sound.

[mikes47jeep]

i was thinking ash just because of its good strength to weight raito
and it absorbs shock well.

it also seasons very well, dosent seem to bow or twist with minimal srinkage.


as i said earlier i can get oak for the same price but it seems not to season out as true as ash

this is just my personal experiance, if im wrong feel free to speak up

Dakota ponderosa pine in my area is next to impossible to get in the large dimentions i need to rebuild a mill

[Mooseherder]

I built my tracks out of pressure treated pine bought at the local hardware store because that was what was available.  Time will tell if I made the right choice.  I'm thinking I may have made a mistake putting them directly on concrete and may opte to put some cross ties underneath to get the track off the ground and allow clearance for the carriage drum pulley shaft under the track rather than drill thru the track like the previous owner had it. 



 

[Al_Smith]

FWIW most of the old circle mills around here were set up on oak .You don't find many that are still operational especially if they didn't have a shed roof over them .

Now also fwiw I've seen them set up on flat bed semi trailers and transported to antique tractor shows and the like and they worked out pretty well .They'd  handle a pretty good size log but it took a big fork lift to load it .

I'm full of ideas as usual .What about a long framed truck chassis or school  bus frame ? Fact I'm using a 27 footer for my bandsaw that once belonged to Wilson sporting goods of Ada Ohio and transported NFL footballs  over the USA at one time .

8 inch thick frame straight as an arrow .You'd have to put it on some good foundation though and get creative with the blade mount but it would be a darn sight easier and cheaper than buying a bunch of steel and starting from scratch I'd thing .You know they get them in wrecking yards ,strip the parts off and sell what they can but almost nobody has a use for the frames .Cash deal a person could probabley get one for less than scrap steel prices .An option,one of many . ;)

[Rooster]

I looked at a Altman-Taylor Circle mill (1898), that had Douglas Fir as the rail support. I havn't been able to determine if it was the original wood, or if it was replaced back in the 50's.  It was in a fire a number of years ago and it is quite charred.  The Franklin Grove Historical Society might try and get the mill operational so that it can help support it's own restoration efforts,and be a source of income for this non-profit out of NW Ilinois.

I might have some contacts in NY who might have some re-claimed DF that you could have re-milled.  Also by posting a note in the "wanted" section of the Forum might yeild some usable material.

Good Luck!

Rooster

[Al_Smith]

A number of years ago when I was involved in antique tractors we had the occasion to pick up an early 1900's Frick .The whole thing including the Buick straight 8 engine that powered it .We were going to set it with a jack shaft and belt up to the old tractors .

Politics in the local county fair being in a "good old boys " area pretty much killed the project of setting it up though .I got disgusted  with the whole thing and went about my merry way .I kinda figured if those hog farmers wanted to run the show they could set up the mill as they pleased which never happened .Not in the least bit surprising . :D

[Jeff]

Personally, I think ash would be a poor choice for the reason that Ron mentioned. It's tendency to split. The timbers on a mill take a beating. If I was to use any hardwood, it would be white oak.

[Ron Wenrich]

Now also fwiw I've seen them set up on flat bed semi trailers and transported to antique tractor shows and the like and they worked out pretty well .They'd  handle a pretty good size log but it took a big fork lift to load it .

You mean something like this?

[Al_Smith]

Yes pretty much the same of course with no power unit .The power being old tractors steamers etc .

You could power one from a John Deere A but you couldn't crowd it too much .An 820 JD would zip right through but they could bring those right down on the governor for all old John could put out if they wanted to .

Something like a 40HP Case or a big Russel steamer . powered them like childs play steam just a rolling out the stacks .You could see the steam plumes and black coal smoke for miles .

Anybody who's  never seen steam under power and likes old antiques it's worth a trip to see it .

[ALWOL]

   Well this being my first post, I may be a little out of line but I would like to share some of my experience with old circle mills.
   All of the mills that I have redone, (one Lane, a Fisher and Davis, a Kingsland and Douglas, a Deloach, and Frick) all used what I think was Southern Yellow Pine for both the carriage ways and the husk frame. I used White Oak for the replacement, because that is what I had on hand. If you have the choice between Oak and Ash, use the Oak. It is tried and proven, and I would have some concerns about splitting and warping. White Oak is also much more durable to the elements than is Ash.
  It is a lot of work, but it will all be worth it when you hear a properly tensioned blade singing through a nice Walnut log.  Good luck!

     Alan

[Axe Handle Hound]

They use ash for tool handles and baseball bats, two very high stress applications.  Yes, it does split, but it takes an incredible amount of pressure before giving in.  If you support it well enough there's no reason ash should break.  That being said, I will agree with Jeff that if I had white oak available that's what I'd use.