iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

When to bite the bullet and buy a new truck?

Started by KBforester, February 23, 2012, 05:08:09 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

KBforester

I've got a 2000 Tacoma and I'm looking at a $1,400 repair bill for exhaust, suspension, and power steering. Another month of driving will put me at 200k miles.   

I'm a forester, an average day will have me doing about 30 miles of logging road driving and about 100 miles of blacktop driving. One day a week I have to travel an extra long distance, about 400 miles. Quite a bit. I estimate this coming year I'll be putting on about 50k miles.

Should I repair? Buy new? Buy Used? I know this is subjective, but I can't decide. I don't really like driving. I don't really get pleasure out of owning a car/truck if that makes a difference. Its a necessary evil. I just hate the thought of putting $1,400 into something that's going to cost me that much more in 6 months. I also hate the thought of buying a $25,000 truck that depreciates in value so rapidly. I've heard it rarely makes sense when to buy a new car. I just don't know. Any thoughts?

I've also thought about buying a car, and leaving the truck in the woods. Sound crazy?
Trees are good.

Holmes

Is your Tacoma one of the trucks that the frame is rusting away.  If it is you got your moneys worth out of it.  I have a 1 ton van I drive and my goal is to get it to 200,000 miles and then get rid of it. 25,000 miles to go.
Think like a farmer.

KBforester

Its in the Year range. But it isn't rusted. Its originally from Alaska. I'm guessing they don't use road salt. Every mechanic I've brought it to says "Well this obviously isn't a Maine truck" . Although I have put 100K miles of it in Maine. Anyways... no Toyota won't give me 1.5 the blue book, they tested it.



Trees are good.

snowstorm

if you buy a new truck you will only be unhappy for 5min. per month....when you write the check for the payment

fuzzybear

I leave the truck in the bush and drive back and forth with the car. A LOT more economical than driving the truck. If I happen to need the truck it can come home and leave the car there.  I have a strong box to keep tools in that I don't need to carry back and forth.  Everything else goes in the trunk every day.
FB
I never met a tree I didn't like!!

Autocar

Iam not to far from thinking about replacing my 2001 F-350 the 7.3 is still going strong with 250,000 miles but the bed is about rusted away and the cab is starting also. I can't afford what there asking for the new ones, I wish International would start building some kind of pick-up again.
Bill

tyb525

I'd never buy a brand new vehicle. Great used trucks sell for half the new price all the time.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

KBforester

Quote from: tyb525 on February 23, 2012, 06:55:28 PM
I'd never buy a brand new vehicle. Great used trucks sell for half the new price all the time.

Yeah, I see that with American full sized trucks... not so much with the Tacomas. I mean, its great if your truck holds value, but it makes it hard to break down and buy used.
Trees are good.

sprucebunny

I'd fix it a couple of times. My 4runner with the same engine made 265k. It still runs but it's rusty.
Meanwhile, I'd look for good deal on another 5-10 year old Tacoma.
MS193, MS192 and an 026  Weeding and Thinning. Gilbert Champion sawmill

POSTON WIDEHEAD

With the price of gas THIS COMING JUNE, I'd buy a horse and a buck board.  :D
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

caveman

After recently facing a similar situation, except the repair was much more expensive, I decided to have my 2000 F350 repaired.  The truck is in good shape and the price of a newer one was out of sight.  I could have purchased a used truck for less than it cost to fix mine but many of used ones looked like they were used as hammers or had a kabillion miles on them.  I'll know in 10 years or so if I made a wise choice.
Caveman
Caveman

KBforester

Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on February 23, 2012, 07:31:53 PM
With the price of gas THIS COMING JUNE, I'd buy a horse and a buck board.  :D

exactly. I was thinking about a full size... but not any more. I wish there were more options for small pickups. Including a small diesel option.
Trees are good.

bill m

I spent most of last year looking for a good used Tacoma at a reasonable price and could not find one. They hold their value really well so I bought a new one. This is my 4th one.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

Woodchuck53

Evening Caveman. What repairs have you to do on the F-350? What engine do you have? I have one

   also now and need some more info on them. It has the dreaded 6.0 Turbocharged. Thanks Chuck
Case 1030 w/ Ford FEL, NH 3930 w/Ford FEL, Ford 801 backhoe/loader, TMC 4000# forklift, Stihl 090G-60" bar, 039AV, and 038, Corley 52" circle saw, 15" AMT planer Corley edger, F-350 1 ton, Ford 8000, 20' deck for loader and hauling, F-800 40' bucket truck, C60 Chevy 6 yd. dump truck.

celliott

Quote from: KBforester on February 23, 2012, 08:47:46 PM
Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on February 23, 2012, 07:31:53 PM
With the price of gas THIS COMING JUNE, I'd buy a horse and a buck board.  :D

exactly. I was thinking about a full size... but not any more. I wish there were more options for small pickups. Including a small diesel option.

Ford did have plans for a 4.4L  turbodiesel V8 for the F150- supposedly 30% better fuel economy than gas V8, but they scrapped that idea in favor of their new ECOboost engines.  I like the small diesel pickup idea. This guy swapped tractor engines into 1\2 ton trucks.  40MPG with a F150? Worth the extra diesel cost!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yERnZ7jAjg
Chris Elliott

Clark 666C cable skidder
Husqvarna and Jonsered pro saws
265rx clearing saw
Professional maple tubing installer and maple sugaring worker, part time logger

sandhills

I'm at that exact croosroad as of today, the tranny went in my 01 chevy that has 200k plus miles.  I know the pickup and engine, so I think I'm repairing it, I told my wife even if I spent $10,000 (which is actually more than I could right now) on a different pickup I'd still be buying something with over 100k miles on it and the one i have is worthless without a working transmission.  I bought mine out right for $1500 a year ago, knowing the tranny wasn't right so even if I spend another $2000 on it, it's not going to owe me much and at least have a little resale value when it works......until the engine goes a week later  ::).

Al_Smith

Well I've got a '77 F-250 with a 300 six and 256 thou .It's retired to the woods but I still use it occasionally . It's still road worthy .

Danged thing runs on 5 sometimes ,sometimes runs on all 6 .Engine is a tad bit tired .Well it doesn't owe me anything .I gave 900 for it in '94. Geeze as heavy as it is it would scrape out at over 600.

Larry

When I was working my employer paid me good money.  They also expected me to be available for call out 24 seven in any kind of weather (usually bad).  Too meet there expectations I bought a new truck every 5 - 7 years.  Any signs of a reliability problem and it was history.  Wife also worked for an employer with the same requirements, so she had a new car regularly.

Shortly before I retired I bought a new 1997 F350.  I like to think of it as my forever truck.  Put a new clutch in it last summer and replaced the fuel lines.  I don't mind spending money on repairs as I really like the truck.  If it goes in the shop for a week so be it...I don't go anyplace.  I also like the low tax and haven't carried comprehensive insurance on it for years.  Looking forward to the day when I can get an antique license plate...even less money.

Just pick your tolerance level and do something between those extremes.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

mooleycow

like larry says pick your tolerance level.  got 96 dodge diesel, running great.  mazada 4x4 got too costly to repair.  found dodge 4x4 v8.  loves gas.  runs like scalded dog.  pulls good.  purchased from dealer for 20,400.  hate payments.  was 3 years old and 30,000 miles on it.  like buying at 50% off, just 3yrs old and 30,ooo.  knock on wood, no repairs yet.  came with new set 20 inch tires too.  now we are back to 4 wheeling on the beach and fishing, hunting the swamps too.

caveman

Woodchuck53, My 2000 F350 has the "bullet proof" 7.3 liter (444ci) turbo diesel.  It had 137,500 miles on it in October when it began smoking white, burning a lot of fuel and generally running poorly.  I took it to the local guy who several folks recomended.  He replaced the wiring harnesses and two injectors.  It ran well for 10 miles and started doing the same as before.  I took it back.  His Snap On diagnostic tool said there was nothing wrong.  He finally took the oil fill cap off while it was running and there was so much blow by that it blew the cap out of his hand.  I eventually purchased a remanufactured engine from Ford.

My truck has not been abused too bad.  The oil, Shell Rotella, was changed at 3500 mile intravals and I do not pull stupid heavy loads and always allow the engine to cool down prior to shutting it off.  Some folks just have the luck.

The advice I have heard about improving the 6 liter Ford diesels involves installing an EGR delete kit and replacing the head studs.  When they are running properly, they are impressive engines. Caveman
Caveman

Piston

Just think, if you put $1,400 into your truck and get it running good again, and it lasts more than 4 or 5 months, your still ahead of the game.  You would spend $1,400 in just a few months with a payment on a new truck.

My little Ford Escape has 240k on it and is still going strong.  It's had an exhaust tick for about 100k now but hasn't gotten any worse.  If I had to put $1,400 into it to keep it running I probably still would.  However, I only drive very rarely so our situations are a lot different.

-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

Brucer

I used to own a 1980 GMC full-size half ton diesel. Bought it when it was 3 years old. When the engine started giving me trouble I had it rebuilt. When the body rusted out I had all the sheet metal replaced. When the transmission let me down I had it rebuilt. I was still ahead of the game because I spent less for all that than a new truck would cost.

I had to replace the starter a couple of times, the alternator once. I had to add an extra oil cooler to haul my mill.

It finally died on me in 2008, 28 years old, and I could no longer get parts for the diesel. In spite of all the repairs, I still spent a lot less than if I'd bought new every 10 years. Now I have a much improved "modern" truck -- so improved that I can't reach over the side to grab anything in the box, and I can no longer scramble up into the box with the tailgate open >:(.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Busy Beaver Lumber

This is my 1988 chevy one ton with 85,000 original miles and not a spot of rust. I have all of about $5000 into this truck. Very reliable and will pull just about any load since it has a 454 motor. Can be a bit hard on fuel since is only gets 10 miles per gallon, but I only use it about once a week, so no big deal.

For what I have into this truck, you could not even make a down payment on the cost of a new truck. I am with Ty and the others that say that you should go and buy a decent used truck and let some other poor fellow each the heavy depreciation costs that come in the first few years of ownership. For the past 10 years, I have been buying low mile, used cars for me and my family members and have been very happy with these purchases and saved a ton of dead presidents.



  

  

 
Woodmizer LT-10 10hp
Epilog Mini 18 Laser Engraver with rotary axis
Digital Wood Carver CNC Machine
6 x 10 dump trailer
Grizzly 15in Spiral Cut Surface Planer
Grizzly 6in Spiral Cut Joiner
Twister Firewood Bundler
Jet 10-20 Drum Sander
Jet Bandsaw



Save a tree...eat a beaver!

Black_Bear

Quote from: Busy Beaver Lumber on February 26, 2012, 09:19:06 AM
I am with Ty and the others that say that you should go and buy a decent used truck and let some other poor fellow each the heavy depreciation costs that come in the first few years of ownership. For the past 10 years, I have been buying low mile, used cars for me and my family members and have been very happy with these purchases and saved a ton of dead presidents.

What's good for Indiana may not be good for Maine. The extensive salt use in winter leads to premature rusting throughout the truck. A 3 year old Maine truck frame will look different than a 3 year old Indiana truck. But, its hard to disagree with the logic of buying used, considering the big hit you take driving a new truck off the lot. I've bought used all my life.

KB, if you are shopping call Don Scott at Downeast Toyota in Brewer. I bought my 2003 Tundra from him in 2006 when I left Orono and he was great to deal with. I bought it with 41K miles and it now has 240K miles and runs daily. The truck is bulletproof. He also inquired about hiring a forester in the near future and I gave him your name. I work in western Maine and couldn't help him, and you were the first forester that came to mind, mainly because of this board. Even if you're not shopping you may want to call him about the work he wants done. E-mail me if you want more info. 

snowstorm

a good reason to buy new... depreciation if your self employed and you make any money at all you almost have to buy something or you end up paying more in taxes

Black_Bear

Quote from: snowstorm on February 26, 2012, 09:53:34 AM
a good reason to buy new... depreciation if your self employed and you make any money at all you almost have to buy something or you end up paying more in taxes

aaah, the decisions that come with being self employed. Even in this economy I talked to many self employed people who had to buy something at the end of 2011. I'm not in that boat, but I do get paid the federal mileage rate to help defray costs, including purchase price.

I failed to mention earlier I just bought a 2012 Tundra TRD Double Cab 4WD, mainly for the double cab that fits two car seats. It's my first new truck and have always bought used up to this point. I plan to run my 2003 Tundra until May or so and then start running my 2012. I'm having a hard time giving up my 2003. She's tough.

Brucer

Quote from: snowstorm on February 26, 2012, 09:53:34 AM
a good reason to buy new... depreciation if your self employed and you make any money at all you almost have to buy something or you end up paying more in taxes

A few people have told me that. I worked the numbers. It doesn't add up. I would pay less in taxes but I would pay even more for the truck.

When I calculate the total cash flow I get money out of my pocket and into the vehicle.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

snowstorm

maybe not in canada but it dose here. if it wasnt worth it then no new equipment would be sold

westyswoods

Ah new is nice, while old can be gold. If one looks long and hard the finds are out there. Depends on what you want as to how easy it will be to find.

I could never justify buying used for a work truck. All the points made in prior post I agree with.

After a long search I finally ran across a 2000 F350 dually about three weeks ago. 102k on it and paid 5750 for it. Very clean body and interior. This will be a project, I took the bed off and will replace with a dump flat bed. Most likely will have to fab my own as plans are to bury a goose neck below the bed with acess door to it. Will present some challenges nothing that can't be worked out.

Westy
Stay Safe and Be Healthy
Westy

Brucer

Quote from: snowstorm on February 27, 2012, 05:55:26 AM
... if it wasnt worth it then no new equipment would be sold

I was commenting on the financial side. I can pay $30,000 for a new truck or $10,000 for a good used truck. For either one I can claim the cost as a business expense (but not all at once).

The new truck would increase my business expense by $30,000 and reduce my income by the same amount. I would pay (very roughly) $6000 less in taxes. Net cost = $24,000.

The used truck would increase my business expense by $10,000 and reduce my income by that amount. Taxes would be $2000. Net cost = $8000.

There isn't a cost advantage to buying new in this case.

Cost isn't the only factor. If I can't find a suitable used truck, then I would have to consider new. If I just want a new truck (and can afford it) then that's what I'd get.

When I'm buying a business truck I have to think about the impression I make on new customers. If the truck is rusted out and falling apart, that makes the customer wonder about my product. If I buy a brand new F350 dually just to pull my mill around, that leaves the customer wondering how much he's contributing to my fancy machine.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

KBforester

Ok well... I think I'm going to look at some trucks. Hoping to end up with a used one. I'm going to try to refrain from a new one.

Now, what to do with the old one? Trade her in? Sell her private party? Retire her as a "farm truck" just on the property?
Trees are good.

Ironwood

Too many variables to recommend. For me, I buy used, and drive very little with my "bigger trucks" (F-550) and drive alot with my F-350.  I bought a motorcycle for some quick trips into town and into Pittsburgh where I volunteer and attend meetings with folks. A few of my trucks will get the new sheet metal and new engines and parts when needed. I just got this one back from the paint shop today. Not too new, paid for and dependable. Works for me. I even have done a trip to town in the truck with the bike on the back, then when close, drive the bike downtown to meetings, I even parked it once in the "soon to be" dining room of the italian resturant I was working on (told the owner sorry it isnt a bulgati, or ducati ::)) They really got a kick out of that one. It was pretty cold and it is next to impossible to get parking in a BIG truck in the downtown.

I thnk as fuel gets pricier you will see ALOT more scooters and motorcycles. My used 1987 XT600 (my third nearly exact model/year) are going for $1500+ or so, and will easily out run a stock new Honda XR650. About 40 mpg (drivn like I stole it).

Gotta do what works for you and your cash flow.

 

  

  

 


  

 
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

SwampDonkey

My experience being around fellas with used trucks is that they are always sinking $400-700 in repairs and parts a month even if they do it themselves. Might as well make that payment on a  new one and not waste time on the hoist or under the hood every month. Of course no one listens and they keep throwing good money on troubles.  :D Wasted time in the thinning business bytes you both ways. 1) not out there cutting to make money, 2) plus the repairs to pay for. So at least with a new one, your about par for money in your pocket and no headaches of fixing worn out trucks. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Todd

QuoteI used to own a 1980 GMC full-size half ton diesel. Bought it when it was 3 years old. When the engine started giving me trouble I had it rebuilt. When the body rusted out I had all the sheet metal replaced. When the transmission let me down I had it rebuilt.
Brucer....that reminds me of the guy who claimed his grandfathers hammer had lasted 80 years...he put 5 new handles on it and changed the head once, but that hammer was still working!  :D
My '97 F-250 HD is getting to decision point too...rust is taking over the body and if my seat leans back much farther I won't be able to stay awake while driving it!  But theres no way I can get anything new that can do what it does...think they'd give me a 15 year loan on a new one? ;)
Making somthing idiot-proof only leads to the creation of bigger idiots!

Brucer

It still had the original frame and cab :D.

Before each major repair I checked out the cost of a new one vs. the cost of upgrading plus the gradually increasing maintenance costs. I also tried to make things better with every major repair -- when the body got replaced, I had the body shop coat the entire frame and the insides of the body panels with an anti-corrosion coating.

One of the really, really nice things about that old truck was ... no electronics!
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Ironwood

You hit the nail on the head, with no electronics. The newer vehicals, say post 2003, have so many systems that it is a NIGHTMARE. Even the medium duty trucks have puter boxes that go, and cost 2-3-4K to replace and ONLY by the dealer as it "needs the codes reset"  what a scam. My buddy does ALOT of repairs on trucks and man does he have the stories.  ::) he is a fleet maint. guy and fixes everyone elses that no one else can fix. IT IS BAD. I think I will keep my "old "trucks thank you very much. I gotta say I have had EXCELLENT luck with repairs on my Fords over the years. Rarely anything major, perhaps a clutch on my old 550, but that is normal. Other than that fuel and oil changes, occasional brakes, or ..... can really think of anything else,...suppose tires. .... no complaints here.

Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

SwampDonkey

The guys I'm talking about buy trucks that are worn out and might be worth $2000-$3000 on the book or a lot less and keep poring money into a junk truck. I think a few of them the inspector is looking the other way when he attaches the decal to the windshield. :D :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

westyswoods

I have a friend who started a Ma and Pa auto maintenance shop about six years ago. We are in rural America where people are struggling. His main customer is the person who can not afford new used, while having to keep junk running. He fixes junk and it is booming.

A good indicator of the what the real economy is out here, not Wall Street, is that his business has increased dramatically over the past couple of years.

The point of the above being there are good used deals out there, I found one after looking for months, problem being they are becoming fewer and fewer. People just need to hang on to there used for economic reasons.

I for one would never buy new, can not justify the cost.

To those who may take the above as some kind of political statement, don't as I am sick of the whole dysfunctional system.
Stay Safe and Be Healthy
Westy

KBforester

I bought a 2009 Toyota Tacoma with 30k on it. Manual, 4cyl, 4wd, access cab. I'm happy with it.
Trees are good.

sprucebunny

MS193, MS192 and an 026  Weeding and Thinning. Gilbert Champion sawmill

KBforester

Trees are good.

SwampDonkey

Nice little woods truck. I would have got one 5 years ago, but they didn't have 4 cyl in the models in Canada. Now they do. I found the 6 hard on gas. The price has also come down a lot. They were 45,000 grand here for a 6 and now they are 34,000 for same truck. My buddy got a brand new one in Idaho for $23,000 back in 2009.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Bobus2003

Quote from: Woodchuck53 on February 23, 2012, 11:03:16 PM
Evening Caveman. What repairs have you to do on the F-350? What engine do you have? I have one

   also now and need some more info on them. It has the dreaded 6.0 Turbocharged. Thanks Chuck

Do a EGR Delete, ARP Headstuds, and a Oil Cooler at the time of EGR Delete.. That will cure 99% of the 6.0l Problems.. Without you may see blown head-gaskets, leaky oil coolers, and the EGR leaks and the valve sticks. Ford told me not too use Rotella 15-40, use Motorcraft 10-30 (Makes a big differnce in cold weather). If the truck idles alot, you can expect the Turbo vanes to "coke up" and will require cleaning.. Can be done yourself if your handy with a wrench and have a few hours. Keep the fuel filters clean (every other oil change is good, or every 10,000 miles) Any loss in fuel pressure from clogged filter or Gelled up fuel will result in "Dropped" Injectors.. gets spendy quick.. I also learned the hard way to only use Motorcraft filters, NAPA Gold tend to not seal all the way in the oil canister causing the Pressure relief valve to come undone, which results in hard starts & rough idle/operation. Another thing to watch is the STC (Snap-to-Connect) Fittings on the HPOP (High Pressure Oil Pump) Lines, the tend to come undone and leak , causing hard starts, Rough running

Thank You Sponsors!