New way to PCT?

[KBforester]

Never Seen one of these before. Maybe its been posted already. Pretty cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2jLuFJWDc0&feature=related

[Maine372]

thats pretty wild. we have a similar tool run off hydraulics we use in utility line clearance. most guys prefer the tool with a circular blade like a brush saw. this rig has the reach to trim up trees, which is nice. seems to leave alot of tall stumps though.

can you imagine a couple stoners out in the woods when that guy walks by? "dude! there were like aliens! and they were eating trees!"

[SwampDonkey]

I've seen a number of gadgets over the years and nothing so far will replace the manual brush saw. Stumps are usually too high and a lot of damage to crop trees when done by a machine. Also, the selection of better crop trees is difficult and usually your ending up just spacing stems and not quality trees. Also leaves a lot of whips and if you leave whips manual cutting you gotta go back. Only one way, and that's the hard way. ;)

[lumberjack48]

I like that , I've used brush's, that is fast and easy to handle. Theres no reason to be cutting them off that high, I've seen deer get in stuck in the belle when stems were cut that high.

SwampDonkey you should try that out, I've got a feeling you'd like it. With the right man on the throttle i believe it would do a good job. It looks like it wouldn't be near as hard on the back.

[SwampDonkey]

Brush saws aren't hard on the back, your standing straight up not bend over like with a chainsaw. I cut 100 acres of brush a year if I'm not marking out a lot of ground. Even so, I still cut a lot of ground. I probably traversed 800 acres last year and that's not just perimeter, that's 40-50 meter wide strips to and of course thick growth. We probably thinned double that. Blocks range from 25 - 300 acres.  ;D

[mad murdock]

That is a pretty cool riggin'!  I could see something like that for major clearing, would prolly do as well as a circle type brush saw, mebbe better.  I wonder if it will show up in Bailey's lineup soon?

[SwampDonkey]

Don't agree, and with all the whips it would leave your block will fail. I think it would work well for cutting / brushing prospector lines or property lines.

[SwampDonkey]

:D I mentioned this to one of the guys on the crew and 1) It would have to be small stems like pictured in plantation and 2) too much $$%$E to break. Believe me that rig would be trashed where we work. ;)

[Rocky_Ranger]

Reminiscent of a Saje trimmer for Christmas trees......

I'm kind of with Swamp though, a good brush saw makes quick work of small trees...

[NB sawdust]

Any of you guys seen the PCT machine by "usewood" . It probably isnt as productive as a good man on a brush saw ,but it has a climate controlled cab !! It also has a small stem harvester head available . Google usewood uw40. Cute little rig.....maybe not cost effective???? 

I am going to try a link..... maybe it will work.??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvDjWJSyJw8&feature=player_embedded

[SwampDonkey]

They tried similar machines over the years, most went bust because their blocks either failed or maintenance was high. Too much residual damage, whips, tree selection problems. Some of those rigs need ideal ground. We work around boulders sometimes bigger than those rigs and sometimes (not often) your on quite  a sharp bank. I've worked on some ground I could look down into rock crevasses that would eat a man. I did it once and told the boss no more of that crap, same with stony hillsides. None of that crap neither. We also work a lot of over sized lots to, with stuff the brush saw ain't really designed for. Hard on angle gears, shafts and clutches to say the least. Although, you can cut acres and acres of it before something gives. Brush saws take a mighty beating at times lads. ;)

[beenthere]

SD
If it is so rough for a machine, why invest the $$'s in the improvement from brush cutting?

Just seems there wouldn't be a payoff in the end.
Or is it planned to be hand logged, as you are hand brushing?

[SwampDonkey]

It's all mechanized harvesting on crown, but harvesting big trees is different that spacing small little stems and making sure it's quality stems standing, low stumps, no whips, low damage to crop trees among a number of things looked as during assessments. Just because it's difficult ground sometimes doesn't mean is poor ground. But sometimes we do thin some pretty poor ground, I'll grant you that. Some that I would leave alone even if it was my own land.

On public land there is a requirement that the land has to reach free to grow status in a certain time frame. So if you cut it, you have to tend it. On private land we thin all the better sites and the crap ground is left alone. We also don't thin popple ground unless it's got a mix of other species and it has to be dry land, not down in poor drainage.

[redlaker1]

I have done some thinning work,  and own a husky brush saw with the circular blade,   and I agree with swampdonkey.   either of the machines shown are nice looking and I am sure that cab would be comfy,   but they just cant match up to a regular brush saw for production and durability.     the husky and stihl brush saws you can run dusk till dawn with very little maintenance,  and they are not that hard on the body,  easy to carry and easy to cut with.   

the husky bar saw there would probably have some applications,   but it looks like you would have to bend down too much to get the stumps close to the ground,   which is not an issue with a regular thinning saw

[WDH]

With that husky bar saw contraption in this neck of the woods, you would be hung up in the greenbriar and vines in about 30 seconds.  The advantage of the system would be that you could yourself out  .

[KBforester]

I agree with SD, for most PCT a brush saw is the way to go.

Currently I'm working with a land owner that has over sized stuff. Thought this might be better for that. Most of the crop trees are 4"dbh, and the stuff I would be cutting is in the 3" range. All spruce and fir. If there was a lot of beech Id be concerned with the smaller stuff, but if it's an overtopped 0.5" stem fir wip is it really going to overtake your spruce crop tree? I don't think it matters. It would certainly look better, but the crop tree will do just fine.

Then again, I would be concerned about that canopy thing getting snagged on everything in site too. I haven't started in on this project yet, but we'll see how it goes with the Husky 244rx.

[KBforester]

Also, after looking at the video again, a like the fact that it reduces the amount of swamping you have to do. If you look at the more mature stands hes cutting, he cuts the trees that get hung up a couple of more times, rather than pulling them down by hand. Or he can push it down with the pole. In my opinion, the hardest work you have to do with PCT is swamping afterwards. Those spruce and fir stick to each other like Velcro. Don't know, it would be nice to try one out.

[mad murdock]

I would agree SD, dense small stems a circle saw would be the way to go. I guess I was looking at things from a west coast point of view, PCT in doug fir or mixed fir and WRC, a little larger avg stem size, and steeper ground. I could see the chain bar having issues with small dia. woody stems, throwing the chain a lot in a day.

[SwampDonkey]

With the upper end brush saws like the FS550 we cut hardwood 5" or 6" on lots of sites, even a 7" once in awhile. You need sharp blades for sure. The smaller saws will be a frustration both in the oversize and blade sharpening. Too much hook and their isn't the torque to sink the blade in the wood. Trying to bite off more than it can handle. I've cut 6" -7" hardwood with the FS550 with two cuts. Late last fall I was in some rugged stuff. There is also Fir and red spruce 6-8" on lots of sites. The whips need cutting because they are still competition and if the site is barely tall enough, you will be surprised at how that grows to. Hardwood whips can overtake softwoods that might be taller now, but have a look in 5 years. Once you open up a face along a work strip and trip them just right you don't pull much. In the big stuff, open her up, crowns shouldn't be touching post treatment. Work with wind direction and hills to your advantage.

[Ken]

We have been doing pct work for 17 years.  I have witnessed various other contraptions for spacing work but it is pretty much impossible to beat a big Stihl (550) or Husky (365) brush saw.  Given that we often see pre treatment stem densities in excess of 15 000 stems/acre a brush saw with a sharp circular blade and a good operator is the only way to go.   We have often done sites with hardwood stems greater than 5".  The operator has to know how to sharpen his saw and feed the blade into the stem gradually.  Although those saws were not designed to cut larger hardwood stems it can be done efficiently. 

Cheers
Ken

[thecfarm]

Nice rig!!! Nice idea,But way out of my price range. If someone had plenty of money and did not know what to do with it.  Would be a hard piece of equipment to use on my land. Hope those tires have a good ply to them  running over the stubs that head leaves.

[CuddleBugFirewood]

What kind of saw blade do you use on your brush saw?  Can you give me specifics as the blade I am familer with would not cut a 4 or 5" dogwood, hackberry, or elm tree very well.  We are also fighting an invasion of bush honeysuckle in this area >:(

Do you go back and apply herbicide?
Wouldn't you have alot of spouts without treating?
Also what does PCT mean (post cut treatment is all I can think of?)

my Dad does a lot of TSI in our hardwood oak/hickory forest, and he cuts off knee high and then treats the stump.  This is the recommend treatment by the extension office and the foresters in our area.  The reason for cutting off knee high is so he can go back through and find the stumps later that afternoon to treat.  I am looking to do more TSI in the future and am interested to here from those with lots of experience.

[SwampDonkey]

9" chisel tooth blade is used. You have to feed the blade into the bigger stems, not swing and hack. Smaller wood you just swing away up to 3" or so with the rpm's up.

PCT is pre-commercial thinning, it's a major activity here in rural NB. Don't have to worry about suckers, just worry about the timing of the thinning. Has to be tall enough so that the canopy closes in quick. Too early and you have created a mess. Hardwoods 16 feet or so is good and softwoods 12 feet are good starting points. Bush honeysuckle I know of up here doesn't grow any bigger than 3-4 feet tall and the size of a raspberry cane. I have some in my woods, but the trees keep it killed back when shaded. Around here the rabbits and moose will take care of'm. ;D