restriction on boxelder????

[Grunex]

Hello all,  I recently had some discussions with some potential buyers of boxelder, but before I get too involved with it I would like to know if anyone in MN knows of any restrictions on boxelder, any prep work that needs to be done in order to transport it legally, etc.  I would be looking at transporting logs if that makes any difference, specifically in Winona County.  Thanks in advance.

[Okrafarmer]

I may be harvesting some tomorrow.... a lot of ours are dying here. I would be interested to hear about restrictions on logs anywhere, just so I know. I guess some places are restricting loads of logs (various species but especially ash?) due to the emerald ash borer. Of course I'm sure you know that even though box-elder is called "Ash-leaf Maple" it is not an ash. Interested to hear the results.

[Grunex]

I Know in Winona County, we officially are now under quarantine for EAB, along with Filmore county, but as of yet Olmsted and Wabasha county are not affected yet, but that may change soon.   I've been to a number of meetings to discuss EAB, and on several occasions I've tried to approach the officials after the meetings to ask this same question, but seems like nothing to worry about as long as I'm not transporting firewood to another county that isn't under quarantine. Just want to be sure on this is all.

[Ron Wenrich]

The only restrictions I could find in Wisconsin is for gypsy moth and EAB.  I don't think that box elder should fall into any of the restrictions.  Your state may have a few that they don't have at the national level.

[Grunex]

I will continue to check but so far I'm coming to the same conclusion.  I'm continually amazed at how much these trees are under rated.  With the prices of hardwoods going up (specifically speaking of fuel wood here) the potential is unlimited!   Sure a lot of people may argue that it produces way too much ash, and it doesn't burn as long, but in my own experience I've eliminated roughly 6,000 a year in heating  costs just by using it.  (heating a home two water heaters and a milking barn setup)  Many of my customers who have me to their place to do clearing operation usually come to the same conclusion. If ya got it why not use it, because it will be back in a few years anyway unless they spray it or grub the stumps.

[Randy88]

Are the boxelders going for firewood or for saw logs?  I've burned boxelders for years, my dad and grandpa did too, decades ago, I thought it was the only useful purpose for them.   I've been told some use them for pallet lumber, but have yet to see many that were straight enough to ever log off for that, a few use them for ornamental wood turning.   As for not being able to transport them, in my area, those are not restricted, some even ask if I'm crazy to take them home to burn, but thats about all, most just laugh at me for even cutting them out to take home, oh well, burn what you have free at the moment, my buildings don't seem to mind what species heats them, neither does my family.

As for being under rated, someone needs to figure out an actual purpose or use for them first, if wood chips are the answer, the owner still won't end up with much, thats too low of a value industry for the tree owner to ever considered it a valuable species, about the same as they are now, pretty much a useless species other than for some to burn on their own.   If your wondering what value they have, would you pay money to have someone deliver you good cut split, boxelder, about the same as you'd pay for oak, or better hardwoods even though boxelder is a hardwood, with heat properties about the same as maple, actually it is almost a maple in many ways, just not the desirable ways.       

[Okrafarmer]

It is not useless, it makes beautiful lumber. I am getting ready to mill a bunch of it, and most of the logs WILL NOT BE ANY LONGER THAN 6 ft. Beautiful stuff. I plan to sell it for $2/ bf ft green, $2.75 dry, $3.50 planed. That's a little less than ordinary maple, but if it sells like hot cakes, I may raise the prices. A lot of it has crimson stain or burl in it, so I may raise the price on selected boards.

[Randy88]

okrafarmer, someone actually buys the boards?  What do they use them for?  I can't begin to tell you how many million feet I've shoved into piles and burned, I can't even give the logs away, let alone find anyone to pay money for them, not even the pallet makers want boxelder, even if its free.

[shelbycharger400]

it took a long time, but this week i sold my 5 slabs that were 3 inch thick,   and would have edged out at 20-22 in wide.   i got 200 for them, they were rough sawn,  and they picked them up
they are going to some clothing store in minneapolis.

[Okrafarmer]

Randy, some of it looks better than other. You probably can't hardly sell it wholesale, you need to retail it, and look for the pieces that look really nice. When a buyer comes, you show it to them last after your other species and hush your voice when you show them your secret-- ash-leaf maple. Wow.

It's all in the presentation.  ;)

[Randy88]

Okrafarmer, now thats a new one, you definitely have a way with words, I'll have to agree with you on the presentation thing.

[Okrafarmer]

Okrafarmer, now thats a new one, you definitely have a way with words, I'll have to agree with you on the presentation thing.

Might not work for every customer, but customers who don't want it will probably buy other species from you.  ;)

[nas]

Randy, when the log looks like this


 
and you open it up and it looks like this

 
Then it is worth a lot ;D ;D

Nick

[Okrafarmer]

Thank you, nas. THAT is exactly what I am talking about. I just hope ONE of my logs looks something near that nice.

And if it does I will be charging extra.

[MHineman]

  I've not heard of any restrictions on Boxelder.  Here in Indiana there are EAB, Gypsy Moth, and LHB (Long Horn Beetle) restrictions.  Many states are also putting restrictions on Walnut between states due to TCD (Thousand Cankers Disease).  Right now it is found in western states, Tennesse, Pennsylvania, and Virginia.
Boxelder is usually a small junk tree that gets killed during TSI (Timber Stand Improvement) around here.  It doesn't seem to be able to compete with the other trees and rarely gets big enough to make into lumber.
  I do like the looks of that wood.  I know lots or woodturners that love it.  The problem is they mostly won't give anything for the wood as they are used to getting it free from people's firewood piles.

[Randy88]

I've destroyed millions of dollars worth of lumber over the years, now the key question is who buys those boards and what do they do with them?    Around me you couldn't give those boards away, the log, wow, that never made it to mill, never past the bush pile and fire at all, do you want anymore logs similar to that one on the mill, I think I could come across about.................... well at least a couple hundred thousand more pretty identical to it, maybe even better. 

[minn]

Boxelder is a member of the maple family and can be tapped just like sugar maples. You do have to cook 50% more sap to get to syrup though. 

[Phorester]

Boxelder is indeed in the maple family, Acer negundo.  So EAB should not be a problem with it.

I have a ball point pen made from boxelder.  Beautiful swirls of intermixed red and cream colored wood, as nas's picture shows.

[Okrafarmer]

Maybe you are sitting on a gold mine, Randy. But then again, the market is kind of limited. And not all of them look as nice as the one NAS had. And don't feel too bad, my dad cut cords upon cords of red maple and yellow birch for firewood for 30 years and we never thought much about it.

Maybe if we market it right, it will be the next big thing.  : Then again, maybe not. It is true that its woodworking properties (at least some of them) are mediocre to poor, but I think you would do well to look for the nicer ones and try to get a few dollars out of the best ones you find, and use the rest for firewood, pulp, etc. You probably can't market millions of board feet of the stuff, but hundreds and maybe thousands, you may be able to. I mainly wanted to bring to your, and other peoples', attention that it is not merely a junk wood and not miss the real gems that lurk out there in the box-elder world, as nas so ably pointed out. We have the same issue with sweet gum down here in the south, everybody thinks it is junk, and it is very common, and people think about it as trash, and it is kind of hard to work with it if you don't know what you're doing (from a milling, drying, and wood-working perspective),  but people who do know what they are doing can make beautiful projects with sweet gum. Same is basically true of Box elder. Except I think box elder may be a little easier to dry than sweet gum.  ;)

[SwampDonkey]

The market for boxelder up this way would be about the same as pin cherry. Even though pin cherry wood looks just about the same as black cherry in these parts. The color changes from ring to ring. You could saw some up and mix it in the black cherry pile and no one be the wiser. ;D

[Okrafarmer]

SD, you mentioned, I think, that you had cleared out some fire cherries that were just about big enough to mill. Have you ever had any milled? Does the wood look the same as black cherry or different, and do you have any pix?

[SwampDonkey]

I've seen some pin cherry milled. I cut some and haul some to an old timer who had it milled out. Keep in mind our black cherry up here is not as fine as PA cherry. It's the same tree, but the color is not uniform. It will all darken up to cherry red/pink with age though. I've seen some folks on here use orchard cherry to. I've got some old (old for pin cherry) in the back yard, wouldn't make a good log now because they are beyond prime. But, they are 12-14" dbh. Usually in the wild I don't see them size up much unless on the road bank, but they are not much taller than 50 feet for the biggest ones. I know one old logger (in his 80's now) that must like to grow pin cherry because every lot he cuts it's right full of the stuff when it grows back.

[Okrafarmer]

Sorry, I couldn't remember if you had said fire cherry or pin cherry. I know I'm getting off topic now, but I do have an ornamental cherry log to mill up soon. The chainsaw cuts look interesting, can't wait to see what it looks like as lumber.

[SwampDonkey]

Pin and fire cherry are the same, almost black bark. It's actually a real dark red , the bark, when you look close.

[Randy88]

Back when my grandpa was still alive he sawed some boxelder logs, air dried them, and he then stated, its just as worthless in boards as it is standing in a tree, he hated boxelder with a passion.   Fast forward to last year and we were sorting boards out and re piling lumber and came across some boards that I didn't know what they were, I asked my dad and after some time he came up with boxelder, we looked them over and came to the same conclusion, each of us looked at the other and said, you throw it away.  I really have no idea what it would be good for, we tried to use it for sheeting boards on a remodel job we're doing and got tired of that and cut it up for firewood.   

Maybe for some decretive type market, but I'm not sure I've got any around here.  I've seen some decretive turning on tv that might have a need for it, but as my dad said, it wasn't worth the effort it took to saw it, stack it, dry it, handle it, it takes the same amount of time to do the same with good lumber, why use the time on something nobody wants or needs in my area.   We kept back one board and set it aside, because of its nice grain and appearance, we misplaced the board and when I asked what happened to it my son said, he cut the ugly thing up and tossed it into the furnace, he got tired of walking around the worthless thing....................maybe taste is heredity after all, nobody complained about him doing so, everyone just smiled a little and the topic was forgotten.

[MHineman]

  Not about Boxelder specifically, but all species not typically sawn or what we'd call "not a good log to saw":
  When a customer calls and tells me about these kinds of logs, I ask him what he has in mind for the lumber.  Often, they have no idea.  I help them along with questions about using it for sheds, trim work, woodworking, etc.
  I ask if they want structure or character.  If they want something with character, it's great.  If structure, I advise them to skip things like Boxelder.
  If you can develop a woodworker market for the lumber with character, you can do fairly well and provide something the larger outlet don't have.
  I'm trying to develop that here, but it takes more time than I've been able to devote to it.

[Okrafarmer]

Maybe I'm just blessed to be in an area with a lot of wood-workers who want character.  :-\ But most of the people who come to buy wood from me, that's what they ask for.

[davidv]

http://leatherwall.bowsite.com/TF/lw/thread2.cfm?threadid=234113&category=88#3186688

[Axe Handle Hound]

I believe that in WI you can't transport any hardwoods out of the EAB quarantine zone unless it's been kiln dried.  I think the rules do allow for the transport of softwood materials out of the EAB zone during the winter months. The link below gives more detail. 

http://datcpservices.wisconsin.gov/eab/article.jsp?topicid=20

[beenthere]

From the details, I read it as "any firewood" transported from the EAB zones.

Otherwise only ash species are restricted in forms of nursery stock, lumber, or timber (trees, logs).

[Axe Handle Hound]

Looks like you are correct.  It's been a while since I reviewed the site and it appears that either the rules changed (not likely) or I just never understood the correctly to begin with (highly likely). 

[MHineman]

  The rules for EAB transport in Indiana have changed recently.  But we also declared the entire state except for a few counties in the southwest part of the state to be "generally infested" even though not all of those counties have EAB sightings.
  Has Wisconsin got as widespread EAB as we do.  I thought only Michigan and Ohio had it as bad as Indiana.

[beenthere]

MH
Click on Axe Handle's link and you will see the counties in WI. Further down, you will see Indiana, Michigan, Ohio and the other areas where EAB has been located. Adjacent counties are quarantined according to USDA

[Grunex]

well.......I know it's been a while since I posted here on this subject, but..............   I scored BIG today on Box Elder. (imagine that)  And like Randy, I hate the stuff, it stinks when you cut it down it rots quickly and is not very good for structural uses. However, I did manage to find a buyer for most if not all of it.  plus I get paid to clear which is what my business is anyway.   So I guess, maybe I can learn to live with a few Box elder trees in my life..

By the way Randy I did manage to upgrade my services this year, I didn't get that Army tractor trailer yet, but I did manage to get an old Army 6by6 dumper.  Still have to use the custom haulers I think this year, but hopefully that will change by this fall.   only about so much one can do in one year, I'm just happy I don't have to run my tracks off doin everything with the 53.

[Randy88]

Grunex, who did you find that wanted them and what were they paying for them?      Can you use a tag trailer to haul your cat around with behind you 6x6?

[Grunex]

Grunex, who did you find that wanted them and what were they paying for them?      Can you use a tag trailer to haul your cat around with behind you 6x6?

I won't say the name of the buyer here as it would destroy my own market, but I will say it is a business that needs lots of cheap wood on an industrial scale.  I'm asking and getting 50 per cord, (green) and cutting the logs out to send to a pallet mill. I'm thinking that maybe the cheaper wood in this economy is going to be a bit more popular to buyers, but all in all the hardwood retailers are still going to have an edge because of the established concept that oak is still best.  I don't mean to step on anybody's toes here, especially those that had a hard winter because of the warmer temps, I've just never taken to the idea that we have to push all this "bulk" on a pile for the eventual burning later.  My ideas were to give some truckers a bit of the action and at the same time work to develop a new market and explore new uses for a wood that is considered mostly "trash"   I've spent too much of my younger years wishing I had something and making do with little to go on, and this seems to be a good oprotunity to explore some possibilities. maybe in the end I will end up liking the trees after all...........lol
 
As for the tag trailer, yes I could pull it for short moves, and would like to buy one yet this year, but got a bit of a bad taste in my mouth over the last deal that fell through with the lender.  I won't be moving around near as much this year as compared to last year so I think I can swing the custom hauling for another year. 
Here is a pic of the ole girl

It is not going to win awards for best of show, but it sure beats tracking everything where I need to go. should make a good site truck.

As for the trucking of the wood I will be hiring Semi end dumps when the time comes, just because that is the only way to move the amt of wood needed cost effectively, and a Semi and end dump trailer is something I don't have.  Time is another problem, I'm mostly working alone and just don't have enough time to make the runs. (All growing pains guys)

[Okrafarmer]

Sounds like you have a good thing going, Grunex. That's what it's all about, going out there and finding those new markets, wherever they are. If they pay you enough to make it worth it, then good for you. Sounds like you have a good unending supply of box elder to supply them with.

[Grunex]

Sounds like you have a good thing going, Grunex. That's what it's all about, going out there and finding those new markets, wherever they are. If they pay you enough to make it worth it, then good for you. Sounds like you have a good unending supply of box elder to supply them with.

been told too many times to quit and go home.......  makes me bull headed!!!
kind of a stubborn believer in the biomass markets, and feel that with the current energy situation in this country all possibilities need to be explored.  I've got faith in a lot of what is being done by guys like yourselves and feel that if possible we can pick a number of suppliers and retailers up along the way and help out a whole bunch of people in the process, including the end users!  It's an idea with a lot of bugs yet, but the general business model seems to be working.  I'll keep you guys posted as time goes on and as the need arises I'll deffinatly post a call out to you guys here as demand increases. For now we're culturing a fledgling market and flooding it would surely destroy it.

[Randy88]

Grunex,, We've been trying to give it away, and there is never anyone to want it, we don't pile it up to burn later,  we burn it as we pile it up and continue on till we're done doing what we were hired to do, then spread out the ashes and do the landscaping or whatever is needed after the brush and undesirable trees are gone.  Two years ago we pulled 58 semi loads out for myself, gave up trying to give the rest away and lit it up and burned till we were done.   I hear all the time about the tough economy, but in reality see very little of it, I too would think there should be something useful for this stuff but the problem is there is so much of it, nobody wants, anyone wanting some can certainly take the nicer stuff and forget the rest.

The problem with biomass is the cost to process it, there is little left for the one with the trees, most landowners feel, why give it to someone who can make a buck on it, just give it to someone who will use it and not sell it, thats the problem, if nobody will buy it, there is little worth to it, so why take it.    If you wanted to give away some oak firewood trees, there would be a dozen there to take it, cut it up and haul it away, say boxelder and nobody shows up, even though there is little heat btu's difference between the two, its just a mental blockage thing I guess.     That and the prolific rate of growth and the ability for boxelders to grow about anywhere and they do.   

[Okrafarmer]

Why are you not selling them for pulpwood? We sell all hardwoods for $21 / ton. The only wood they say they won't take here, for pulp, is walnut, and we have over 100 species of trees in our area (not counting the ones people plant in their yards).

[Randy88]

To my knowledge there is no pulp plants anywhere around me, let alone anyone willing or wanting anything for pulp, I'm told the trucking is too high to ever make it break even let alone turn a profit, even if the product was free, if this isn't right it was what I've been told by quite a few, and all I know of pulp.   

Several pallet factories were wiling to buy or take them, but they are so far behind, due to the downturn in the economy and demand for pallets that they'll never live long enough to ever get to most of the trees, that and around me the making of oak or a better grade of pallet is being made and they are reusing them many times over, also causing a downturn in demand for the lower quality one time used pallet.

The other double negative with boxelder is the problem of poor quality logs, so crooked, bent, twisted and knotted that it takes so many extra logs to get the same amount of lumber, most don't want to deal with it, there are plenty of better quality logs out there that are now cheaper due to the lag in demand for lumber in building and housing, again its what I've been told.   

So far unless you find someone who wants just a few logs for some speciality project for themselves, or a few that will use it for firewood, there is no real use for the trees, and at the rate they grow and repopulate there are billions of trees growing that nobody wants and are considered a weed by more than just me. 

Maybe the idea of going green will catch on, and cities will not only start to burn garbage from around the city to use as a heat source but also will include trees ground up to supplement the need for a heat source, I've wondered for years why its not done more, maybe its just an economic thing, I'm not sure. 

 

[shelbycharger400]

hmm.... maybe im doin it all wrong.. ive been cuttin tree lines down for the farmers just for the wood, no cash. .  although the one dose go out and move them/ roll them over with his skid loader or tractor, and move out all the sticks and junk. .  grunex is gettin paid to do clearin jobs..

on the lines... how much u chargin ol pal??
we have already thought about it a bit, but we dont want to irritate the good people ,  hundreds and hundreds of cords that need to be done, continiously!   sprinkler systems seem to make the trees grow fast . 

[SwampDonkey]

Maybe you fellas will be to box elder as Cedarman is the eastern red cedar. :D

[Okrafarmer]

There's no shortage of demand for pulp wood around here, only a shortage of good prices. They're screaming for us to haul more-- (by us, I mean all the loggers and people who bring them pulp, was talking to a serious logger the other day) -- but won't raise the price. They don't care what species for pulp. If they just raise the price more people will get it. But I find it hard to believe that anywhere in the US that has forested tracts of land, there is not a pulp market that would make it worth hauling a good heavy hardwood like that. I would think you could pile it up at the landing and have the independent self-loaders come pick it up and pay you for it. That's how they do with aspen, and so on, and other junk wood, and I don't see why they wouldn;t take the box elder too. And if you are being paid to get rid of it-- well, surely they'll give you $100 a load or something to haul it off. Then again I don't know your area, but I would have thought so. Around here we have three pulp places we can haul to, two of them owned by the same company. They pay $21/ton, so a 20-ton load would be about $420 at the mill. Are the numbers that much worse where you are?

[Okrafarmer]

Oh and when we took the most recent load of pulp in, yesterday I think, we reminded them we would like to pay them to seperate out for us any bigger maple, cherry, walnut, or holly they come across, and the man said-- sorry, only walnut. He's pulping the maple and cherry because he can't get enough pulp.  :

[SwampDonkey]

What does the landowner get, or is this for clearing jobs? $20/ton would not be bad if it's a clearing job, but on a logging job no one would touch it around here because the landowner would want at least $10/ton. What do you pay cutters and truckers from what's left? Maybe that's what these mills down your way hope for, is wood from clearing jobs, keeping the price low.  ???

[Okrafarmer]

I was under the impression that these were clearing jobs, and that if he didn't sell it, he would have to burn it or grind it.

[Grunex]

Indeed it is for a clearing job, landowner just wants it gone.  I get to make a mess but then I have to clean it back up again. 

I found an interesting link, which basiclly confirmed what I have been saying to people about the dollar value of the tree in BTU's

for comparison I compared to White Oak at 160/cord vs. boxelder at 50/cord
looks like boxelders comes out the winner in this case.

http://firewoodresource.com/firewood-btu-ratings/

What makes it more economicly appealing is that most times boxelder is readily available. 

[SwampDonkey]

You just need more of it, and the space for it. ;D

[Grunex]

yup thats a fact.........economics of scale have to be figured in here,  delivering by the pickup load is out of the question.  Semis and end dumps are the only way to make it work.  but on the same note we wouldn't have the extra cost involved of chipping either.   Correct me if I'm wrong but with the average weight of boxelder at 3700lbs green  it would figure in to about 25-30 ton. correct?

[SwampDonkey]

Ball bark if your loads are heavy, more than 12 cords, like maybe 14 cord or so. See we always figured the solid mass in a cord as a cunit 100 ft³. And I don't have figures on boxelder, just red maple, red is heavier and denser.

I've seen lots of trucks over the scales with hard maple that had 30-40 ton (5600 lb cords)and they paid on 12-16 cords to the truckers. All wood went through the marketing board. 12 cord loads where self loaders, 16 were all bed. We hauled 8-9 cord of aspen just on straight tandum axel.

[Grunex]

On a dry basis boxelder comes in at about 400 lbs heavier than aspen, so would I be safe in assuming about a 10 cord load for just a tandem axle truck?

If the wood is already in chunk form, and in say a 32 foot end dump it would seem to me to be about the same weight, and number of cords per load as a tandum axle log truck.  (If I am figuring it correctly)

My plan is to scale out the logs for pallets, with my sawmill willing to pay about 100/thousand/ BDfeet. and the rest to be chunked into firewood for sale locally to buyers for home heating.  In doing so I should be able to make the best use of the wood per acre, and leave only small dia brush left on site.  This left over brush would be burned via trench burner or dealt with in some other method.  In just firewood alone, my experience has told me that roughly 10 to 12 cords per acre is a good figure to start from if you are only cutting for firewood.  (Assuming 30 to 40 ft trees and 16" DBH)   Take the logs out and you are left with about 8 cords/acre.  or total value of the wood at around 400/acre plus whatever scales out of the logs. Sound pretty reasonable to you? 

So I'm kind of working on two fronts here, chunk firewood and also logs, with the end result being a cleared patch of ground suitable for tillage or whatever other purposes the landowner has in mind. (one guy wants the boxelder gone so he can replant more desirable trees in their place. )  my usual rate for clearing is about 750 acre with the cat and that is just pushing stumps and trees over and raking roots.  This will be a fair bit more labor but in the end I think I can make it work out  to add to the bottom line, and maybe even be able to give the landowner a break on his clearing.  Won't know for sure until the job is done as this is my first time tackling such an acreage and working on this scale.  I've done it before on 50 to 100 cord lots, but this time around is gong to be a little different just because of the scale of the projects.

[SwampDonkey]

10 cord should be handy with the wood being chunked up. You'll know when the buyer stacks it. ;D

For that $750/acre, do you pile and burn the stumps? Of course this does not include tillage I assume. Because in my experience in these parts is that the full package is usually close to $2000/acre and the land clearing outfit does not usually waste any wood, as they are usually logging outfits clearing on this scale. They would take most of the poor stuff as pulpwood and not deal much in firewood. Our boxelder around here will not take over the woods and will not even take over old pasture. The native trees here will kill it out, it's more invasive to river banks and back yards. Boxelder is a transplant in my region.

[shelbycharger400]

hey swamp....

Maybe you fellas will be to box elder as Cedarman is the eastern red cedar

sometime soon... my kitchen is planned on being all boxelder !!
i havent had time to work on my mills.

[Grunex]

10 cord should be handy with the wood being chunked up. You'll know when the buyer stacks it. ;D

For that $750/acre, do you pile and burn the stumps? Of course this does not include tillage I assume. Because in my experience in these parts is that the full package is usually close to $2000/acre and the land clearing outfit does not usually waste any wood, as they are usually logging outfits clearing on this scale. They would take most of the poor stuff as pulpwood and not deal much in firewood. Our boxelder around here will not take over the woods and will not even take over old pasture. The native trees here will kill it out, it's more invasive to river banks and back yards. Boxelder is a transplant in my region.

For that price it is simply just clearing, kind of base package so to speak,  sometimes people don't want me to mess with the stumps or brush saying I can handle that myself. but lots of heavy stumps and root raking do take extra time and for that I have to charge out extra.  I sometimes work in a lot of pastures, where a lot of times the farmer just wants better grass, or wants the area prepped to replant and so it's just simply a matter of cutting the shade out of the area.  I think sometimes to clear the acreages like this there is a matter of permits for sod busting and the NRCS office kind of gets a bit fussy sometimes especially in highly erodible land situations.  so.....for now it is mostly pastures and fence lines replant situations etc.  Needless to say on every job I do find out the hows and whys just to cover my own butt.   Also it should be noted I never bid a job.....ever! I just simply tell the land owner the rates and they can take it or leave it,  But in that respect I do give them a good days work too...no sitting around on the cell or whatever.  Root raking will easily put me up to around 1500/ac, but most times clearing and bumping a few smaller stumps ............... around 750/ac.   With the coming rise in fuel cost.....well that may change too............just so many variables and I have to always change with the times.  We live in a predominantly Dairy area, so a lot of farmers have the equipment to push and stack brush and etc......so I guess that is why we get a lot of .....well just get the bulk out of it situations.   I've never lost on a job yet and have repeat customers so must be doing something right........

Cheers!!

[Grunex]

hey swamp....

Maybe you fellas will be to box elder as Cedarman is the eastern red cedar

sometime soon... my kitchen is planned on being all boxelder !!
i havent had time to work on my mills.

well...  if ya like stop on down when I get a bunch landed,  we'll let ya pick and choose. 

[shelbycharger400]

grunex...   im waitin on nsp and the land owner,   to drop a power line,  i have over 200-300   red cedars comming  in the 20 to 32 inch range! All 5 miles from home.      I have a few treelines in a 8 mile radius lined up to "clear"      so it will be a while!  if our firewood sales are good,  i might be able to buy some equipment for haulin.  I WANT a PULP truck or trailer with a loader!!

[Grunex]

grunex...   im waitin on nsp and the land owner,   to drop a power line,  i have over 200-300   red cedars comming  in the 20 to 32 inch range! All 5 miles from home.      I have a few treelines in a 8 mile radius lined up to "clear"      so it will be a while!  if our firewood sales are good,  i might be able to buy some equipment for haulin.  I WANT a PULP truck or trailer with a loader!!

Close to home is good too!   gotta love it when materials are just around the corner   :D