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Looking at purchasing an OWB - probably CB eclassic

Started by huricane_33, February 13, 2012, 09:22:00 AM

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huricane_33

Hi,

I have been reading this forum for a while now and have learned so much.  I really appreciate the experiences of you all.  Perhaps I can get some opinions on my situation?

I am looking at a CB-e2400 for my second home.  It is ~2500 sq feet with oil fired radiant heat.  It is 2x6 construction and well insulated.  I plan to heat both floors of a garage at some point latter on.

The problem is that we are not living at this house full time right now.  We plan to within a few years, but it is not feasible right now.    I am there every weekend and for a few weeks at a time during vacations.  I am concerned about when the fire goes out that the water in the OWB can have freezing issues.  I realize that I could probably put antifreeze in but that is quite an expense.  The local CB dealer indicated that the water would circulate still when the fire was out an that my oil burner after kicking on would be in essence now heating the water in the OWB.  Is this a valid presumption?  Is this going to defeat the purpose of using less oil?

Any comments are greatly appreciated.  I really would like to make this work. 

Thanks,

-Kevin


thecfarm

Just make sure you get it bigger enough for what you need. I feel if you are close to it's limit move up a size. Others have used thier oil furnace to help their OWB from freezing up on vacation. I think they said not the best thing to do,but it works. Just depends how long you will be doing it for. If you are gone does not have to be set at 70° either,50 is fine,40 will get you by too.
huricane,Welcome to the forum too.You will get your answers on here. Might help to update your profile and tell us where you live and how cold it can get too.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

doctorb

Welcome to the FF.  First, where are you located?  Whether you are in a really cold environment or not may make a difference in what options are available for you.

Second, while I agree with thecfarm that bigger may be better, your house is not large and, if well insulated, may be adequately taken care of with an e1400 rather than the larger 2400.  I would check into that.

These two FF threads address your question to a degree.  I would digest them and come back to us with more questions.  I want to hear what your thinking is after you have all the differeing opinions and experiences that are available to you here.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,55740.0.html

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,54886.0/all.html

One thing I might add is that it takes 3-4 hours minimum to get these OWB's up to temp when starting cold.  If this is going to be a weekend thing, that may drain away too much of your time at your weekend place.  These things are designed, IMO, to get up and running and stay there.  I can not remember anyone here on the Forum using an OWB only on weekends, with a shutdown in between.  If I were only there on weekends, I might use an indoor wood stove vs. an OWB.  Just some thoughts.....
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

huricane_33

Thanks for the quick replies Doc B and thecfarm.  I should have filled out the profile properly when I joined.  I have done so now.

Our home is in North Conway, NH which is pretty much East/Central NH.  We live about 2 hours south so a trip up there is doable in emergency situations.  In fact, I have had the oil burner fail to fire due to a bad nozzle after being maintained.  We have an alarm system to alert if the temp goes below 40* and I now have a WiFi thermostat that I monitor with my smartphone.  I know if something is up now pretty quickly. I also have a portable generator that I could throw in the truck and head up to prevent a disaster. I can and do actually work from up there.

We have a fireplace that is used when we are there that does supplement the heat pretty well.  I really like to silence the oil burner whenever possible...  I have been taking down some trees on the lot over the years and enjoy the exercise of cutting/splitting/stacking, so that part is not a problem.  I would have to buy wood when the OWB is being used extensively.  I am planning on setting up an area where I can build a large enough woodshed and have the cutting and stacking activities near the OWB.

The posts that Doc referred to are interesting.  I am not as concerned about the power outage issue as much as I am the possible freezing of the lines going to/from the OWB.  I think the OWB would be ~40 feet from the house.  This has been a warmer winter and i think that I should plan on some worse cases.   I am starting to think that maybe I could go 5 days without loading the OWB and survive as I would be using the oil burner (kicking in and at low thermometer settings) to keep the water warm enough and moving.  The issue of getting the fire started again when we get back is a big negative however. 

Any other thoughts on this are appreciated.

-Kevin




thecfarm

I myself spilt and cut all my wood away from my OWB. I like the mess away from the OWB. I have to rake up enough bark as it is. Pile it up by the OWB sounds good. This also keeps the mess away from my house too.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

DeerMeadowFarm

I am new to the OWB thing myself. I have a CB E-Classic 2400 and so far I love it. I was concerned as well about leaving it during a vacation etc. My dealer stated that as long as I kept the OWB circulator pump running, it would not freeze. Mine goes through a heat exchanger so I guess if I left the circulator pump going between my oil-fired boiler and the heat exchanger as well it would be, in a sense heating my OWB water as well. Probably not the best use of the oil but for a short vacation away from my house I would probably do just that.

As far as firing up the OWB each time you go up there, you can get the optional propane ignitor for the e-classics....might make the relighting easier.

Good luck!

huricane_33

I think cutting /splitting away from the OWB makes sense.  Thanks for the insight. 

I need to understand the ignitor scenario more.  Does this mean that you have to have a propane bottle hooked up to the OWB?  How big a tank is required? 


doctorb

Depends on your definition of "away" :)

I roll my splitter onto an old tarp, and all the bark and junk that's not saved for kindling is easily discarded at the end of each splitting session.  Minimizes mess.  I place the splitter right next to next winter's wood pile for the shortest distance from splitting to stacking.  I don't like any combustibles around my 2300.  Mine is in a shed.  I even rake the leaves that blow in away from the front of the stove.  So don't get the impression that my splitter is sitting directly in front of the firebox door.  It's not.  The wood I am splitting won't be burned for a minimum of one year, and usually 2 years.

While the gas ignighter can light the OWB easier than a match and paper, you still need a good coal bed for it to run efficiently.  I am sure that leaving that burner on for a while combusts the wood quicker, but you're not going to have 180 degree water in that jacket for a few hours no matter which way you start the fire.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

mrwood

I cannot answer your question about how big of a propane bottle for the igniter system, however I do not beleive that would be the answer. In my opinion doc b was not referring to getting the fire lit. He was referring that it takes 3-4 hours to bring that water from say 50 up to 185-195. Lighting the fire is not an issue. IMO the ignition systems are overrated. That's what they have matches and paper for. But when doin a start up. You cannot just load this thing full and forget it. It takes 3-4 hours of babysitting to get the fire good and going while te water is heating up and then once the water is there you load it and walk away

Roger2561

Quote from: huricane_33 on February 13, 2012, 10:51:48 AM
Thanks for the quick replies Doc B and thecfarm.  I should have filled out the profile properly when I joined.  I have done so now.

Our home is in North Conway, NH which is pretty much East/Central NH.  We live about 2 hours south so a trip up there is doable in emergency situations.  In fact, I have had the oil burner fail to fire due to a bad nozzle after being maintained.  We have an alarm system to alert if the temp goes below 40* and I now have a WiFi thermostat that I monitor with my smartphone.  I know if something is up now pretty quickly. I also have a portable generator that I could throw in the truck and head up to prevent a disaster. I can and do actually work from up there.

We have a fireplace that is used when we are there that does supplement the heat pretty well.  I really like to silence the oil burner whenever possible...  I have been taking down some trees on the lot over the years and enjoy the exercise of cutting/splitting/stacking, so that part is not a problem.  I would have to buy wood when the OWB is being used extensively.  I am planning on setting up an area where I can build a large enough woodshed and have the cutting and stacking activities near the OWB.

The posts that Doc referred to are interesting.  I am not as concerned about the power outage issue as much as I am the possible freezing of the lines going to/from the OWB.  I think the OWB would be ~40 feet from the house.  This has been a warmer winter and i think that I should plan on some worse cases.   I am starting to think that maybe I could go 5 days without loading the OWB and survive as I would be using the oil burner (kicking in and at low thermometer settings) to keep the water warm enough and moving.  The issue of getting the fire started again when we get back is a big negative however. 

Any other thoughts on this are appreciated.

-Kevin

Kevin,

I live in a small town on the west side of NH, near the Conn. River. in Enfield.  I live in an old farm house built somewhere around 1840's and no matter how much insulation you add to it, the air cold seeps in regardless.  But, I'm heating 2400 sq ft with an E-classic 1400 and it keeps me comfortably warm.  My OWB is 25 feet away from the house (Local code issue).  Actually, on Sunday when the temps were in the single digits all day long with that 20mph north wind, the E-classic 1400 kept up with the demand without any problems.  I service the OWB every 12 hours.  Presently, I'm installing an indirect water heater for my domestic hot water using the OWB to provide the hot water through the built-in heat exchanger.  I hope to have the job of plumbing it in done this weekend.  It'll be interesting to see what kind of load it puts on the OWB.  I can't wait to get away from the oil completely.   Roger   
Roger

muckamuck

Any  20 lb-100 lb size propane tank will work. I have the old e2300 with gas option and as much as I try I can't seem to keep the gas igniter working even with brushing and cleaning so I gave up.  I asked my dealer about replacing the gas jet with a new/improved gas jet but he just did not think it would happen for free or get a refund.  So I bought a big propane weed burner 450000 btu and I put some smaller wood/bark  in the front under the logs when I need to relight and hit it with the torch- it works.  Plus I have found the torch is useful for cleaning the bypass door and even the heat exchanger tubes (5 feet of flames shooting thru each tube).

mrwood

Quote from: muckamuck on February 14, 2012, 09:34:22 AM

So I bought a big propane weed burner 450000 btu and I put some smaller wood/bark  in the front under the logs when I need to relight and hit it with the torch- it works.  Plus I have found the torch is useful for cleaning the bypass door and even the heat exchanger tubes (5 feet of flames shooting thru each tube).

Man I am cracking up when I read this. It sounds like it came straight from Tim the tool man Taylor himself. You know what they say there is more than one way to skin a cat.  :D

Dean186

I agree with you on this one mrwood.  The 450000 btu weed burner should get a fire started in short order.

For those that don't have the weed burner and want one step up from matches, I recommend a plumbers torch.  It works very well for me.

Kevin,  You could go ahead and install the unit now, just wait until you move there more permanently before you fill it with water and fire it up.

IMO - The E-Classic 1400 will adequately heat the home you have described.  The E-Classic 2400 will give you a longer time between refills.

Dean

PS Welcome to the forum

huricane_33

I was thinking that the 2400 would meet our needs because we will be adding a garage at some point later.  I am not sure when that will be but we would want the garage heated.  Does the 1400 have multiple supply/return lines?  Also, if we did radiant heat would that mean no HX is needed for the garage? 

With less water to heat it should get up to temp quicker?  Would that still take ~3 hours or so?

Does it concern anyone when they leave the house with the OWB burning ? 

I like the torch idea.

I really appreciate the feedback.  I stumbled onto this forum and have since spent a lot of time browsing. I believe the experience and knowledge of the folks on here is incredible. 

Thanks,

-Kevin   






doctorb

While you can directly plumb the hot water lines coming from your OWB into radiant, or any other type of hot water heat, I would not suggest it.  However, others on the FF have done that and are happy with it.  Even with radiant heat in the garage, keeping the systems separate (OWB and in-house hot water heat)via a heat exchanger permits some options with maintenance and drainage that are easier with the heat exchanger model than the direct plumb.  You may have to add enough anti-freeze to the entire OWB system to prevent freezing in the garage when you are not there.  the volume of water in your basement furnace system is significantly less than that in the OWB.  the cost would be high to do that, and antifreeze can decrease the ability of water to exchange heat in higher concentrations.  Most houses have closed pressurized systems for hot water heat.  The OWB system is not pressurized.

I leave my OWB fired up and all alone often, and I have no wories about it whatsoever.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

DeerMeadowFarm

I too have used the plumber's torch; works great!

I leave mine untended all day when I'm at work.... no worries!

hockeyguy

Be careful if using a plumbers torch to light your owb!!!
I know of a guy around here who used to use one. As he was leaning into the firebox trying to reignite his torch, he didn't realize the firebox was filling up with propane. When the torch finally ignited, he was blown out of the firebox by a massive ball of fire.
He was taken to the emergency room and ended up in i.c.u. with some serious burns. Spent the next two months in the hospital recovering and fighting off infections but is better now.
BE SAFE!!

thecfarm

You ask about multiple supply lines. I have a Heatmor,but I think the same idea. I think you only have 2 places to hook your lines to. You need  manifolds,like this,



 

Notice there are one line on each not in use. That is for my working garage,SOMEDAY.

This is my heat exchanger in my basement,86,000 BTU


 
I have a FHA furnace. The guy that installed it just put another exchanger into the duct work. I have another thermostat that runs the exchanger. I used the blower from my FHA for air to go through my exchanger. I could still use my FHA furnace,it would just drive warm air through the exchanger.Never have,but the option is there,just in case.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

upsnake

thecfarm - Did the louvers come with the hx or where did you find those?
Thanks.

DeerMeadowFarm

The CB e-classic 2400 has 3 ports for tapping off of before you need to go to manifolds. (Not saying mine's better than the Heatmor, just that the OP asked about the 2400 which I have)

thecfarm

What you see is what I got.  ;D It came this way. The one he put into the duct work did not have the louvers.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Dean186

Quote from: huricane_33 on February 15, 2012, 12:41:51 PM
Does the 1400 have multiple supply/return lines? 

Does it concern anyone when they leave the house with the OWB burning ? 

I like the torch idea.

I really appreciate the feedback.  I stumbled onto this forum and have since spent a lot of time browsing. I believe the experience and knowledge of the folks on here is incredible. 

Thanks,  Kevin

The E-Classic 1400 has two supply lines.

No, I never worry about leaving the furnace running with no one home.

I light the propane torch with a striker outside of the firebox.  A good safety point, about not trying to light the propane torch with the fire in the firebox, was mentioned by hockeyguy.

MapleNut

I have left for two days without any concern about my owb running. Still had a good bed of coals in it when I refilled it. As has been mentioned, firing it up every five days isn't the optimum use of it, but with oil backup, may work. Mine took ~2 hours to come up to temp(50-185) last fall when I started up.
2005 WM LT40HDG28, 5500 IRON MULE, 272,262,046, & A PIC!

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