Advice pls, drop 36" windfallen oak into position for Lucas milling

[chainsaw_louie]

Hi Fella's

This time, I am going to ask first ....the picture below is of a red oak that I want to mill with my swingblade mill.   The problem is that the tree is sideways but still 4 feet off the ground.  Its a huge amount of weight and I don't
  a) want to get hurt
  b) want to break/split the log

So, whats the best approach to get that tree down to the solid ground??
How far up from the roots should I cut it, etc ? 
The log is about 25-30' to the crotch.
I was thinking that it would be 2 logs.
I have a 36" bar.






Thank you,

Tim

[Silver_Eagle]

Hello Chainsaw;

Take a look at the tree to make sure it is not in a bind, meaning pressure from limb's or if when it was blown over if the tree fell to put bending pressure on the log's. If there is pressure on the log/trunk then you want to make double sure you stand away from the pressure when bucking the log to start with. They will act like a base ball bat and whack you when bucked.

You might start with the top, it look's like the tree is on flat ground correct? Taking some limb's out of the top will start to relieve any pressure the tree has on it. Making the bucking much more safe for you. The top buck look's like you can reach it ok so pressure should be down, start your first cut on the top up over the top of the log, be careful you don't get hung up/pinched in the cut, I wouldn't just dog in and saw, feather you cut lightly so you can feel to make sure your not getting pinched, even drive in a wedge lightly to keep the cut open just a touch if needed. Then cut through the bottom side of the log, this will leave the pressure in the log, make sure you not on the side where pressure releases you are in the way, so when finishing the cut the pressure will open the bottom cut as you finish. You have to cut hard and fast at that point to keep the log from breaking.

Now as you move back to the root wad, same principal applies here. You also have to watch root wad's for they might not just pressure down, I have had them on bigger spruce stand back up when bucking them off, not fun if you are in the way. Also the root's can flip rock's and dirt on where you might be bucking your first cut on the bark, take a quick look before making that cut can be helpful.

It's hard to explain in word's, I have cut all over the pacific northwest logging back in my younger day's, line ground, cat ground, heli log's in Alaska and when you think you got it is when you can get bit quick.

I did a quick you tube search, this might give you a better idea of what I'm trying to say with a few of these video's and why safety is your concern here. Be careful and have fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_ZaxAQ7QXY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_flHuhCtoP8&feature=related

I know those two video's are taken on steeper ground but just wanted to give you an idea of what can happen if you stand in a bad spot.
   

[Ianab]

I'm in the "start at the top" camp too for that sort of tree.

Our big cypress trees are usually heavily branched and end up sitting up like that. We just start up the top and get limbing. Only real hazard there is working out what limbs are under tension and holding the log up. Leave those to last and be VERY careful cutting them.

Eventually you get the top removed and the top of the log down closer to ground level, and you can move down to the base and take the root ball off.  Exact technique there depends in how the log is tensioned, but usually involves undercutting and bore cutting.

Most important is to keep your wits about you and work out what's going to move where for each piece you cut.

Ian

[sealark37]

Undercutting the cuts on the main trunk will help prevent splitting. Start in the top limbs and disassemble them carefully.  See above post.  Regards, Clark

[millwright]

I agree with the previous replys, just be careful the stump doesnt flip back up and when you are cutting from underneath that the tree doesnt split.

[Magicman]

There is a magnitude of energy and tension stored up in the limbs that are holding the trunk off of the ground.  Proceed cautiously and examine each limb before and while you are are sawing.  They can and will spring back on you.


 
Wear chaps and headgear.


 
Because you do not want this.  It happened on almost the exact situation as yours.   :-\

[eastberkshirecustoms]

Boy that tree really put a woopin' on you MM. Yup, headgear is my friend in the woods!

[Magicman]

Yup, that lick influenced me to buy that headgear.   ;D   LINK

[Ga_Boy]

Another vote for starting at the top and doing a undercut. Don't start the job with out safety gear.  My personal preference for head gear is the Pacifica helmet, it's made of Kevlar.  I had a Sthil helmet, their are made of ABS plastic.  Mine shattered when I dropped when I was sitting on my tractor.  When I saw that, I bought the Pcifica. 

[Ianab]

This is the sort of mess we usually have to deal with.



Hard to judge scale in that pic.

Here it is with a bit more brush dragged away.



Once we got it trimmed down to this state we got it dragged up the hill to be sawn.



But take your time and clear the branches from the top as you go. That way you can see what's going on. Just cutting branches blindly at random is going to get you hurt.

Ian

[Hilltop366]

Them branches do pack a lot of punch, I cut mostly spruce trees so it can't compare to these big oaks, but after getting a few branches in the knee and thigh (that's getting too close!) I figured out that if I cut the branch off a few feet out from the log and keeping myself next to next to the log there is less spring back and if it does the part that is being cut off will miss me, then I will cut off the rest of the branch. I always wear my saw helmet, saw pants and saw boots.

[cutterboy]

It doesn't take a very big branch to cause a lot of pain. I got slapped in the mouth by a 3 inch branch...knocked me on my rear and cut my lip pretty good.

Just be careful Tim. Should be some nice lumber in that tree.

[CalebL]

I was bucking an oak that was wind blown over one time like that and started cutting the canopy off when I got almost all the was done with the canopy and the tree jerked back up about 6 feet.  It scared the you know what out of me.  I hate messing with wind blown over trees. 

[Meadows Miller]

Ahh the Joys of cutting Southern Cypress Hey Ian  ;) :D Did a break about two weeks ago n got 30m3 of realy good sawlogs with a top dai of 10" min though Mate  ;D ;D ;D 8)

Id start from the top too get most of the weight off it then with the limbs propping it up of the ground take them off in 2' sections I would also throw a couple of logs on the ground to keep it up at least 4 to 8" to get the best recovery last but not least is a good step cut to remove the root ball Mate  ;)

Regards Chris

[Magicman]

After you get the main trunk on the ground, take the root ball off before bucking.  If you do not, it could easily stand back up and then you would have to fell that butt log.   :-\

[Meadows Miller]

Yep theres afew ton in that root ball Lynn ;) Tim have you done a step cut to release a blowdown root ball before Mate  ??? all it is is you do a plunge cut from about 40 to 50% down to release the bottom half of the log then move the saw upto the top of the tree about 6" for every 1' of diameter what it dose apart from being Safer  is it  gives abit of holding wood so the root ball dose not want to tip up untill your almost finnished the cut and it reduces splitting Mate  ;)

Regards Chris

[chainsaw_louie]

Thanks a lot for the advice, with all the safety gear,   I'll start at the top and work my way down slowly freeing up the weight as I go.  In the past when I've done this, I am often  surprised how hard it is to accurately see in which the direction the weight is pushing, even on the small limbs when it should be obvious, its not. Just when I think I got it figured out, the darn limb is pinching the bar (as in Aesops fables, the little stihl 011 has saved the big Lion saw more than once).

Putting logs under there first  is a good idea, plus I got to clear those rocks out of the way.  If its solid, the doyle scale says there should be 1000 bf in there. 

I'll report back and let you know how it goes.

Tim

[Magicman]

Plastic wedges are also your friend when removing large limbs and bucking.

[Larry]

When I took Game of Logging training they taught several methods to work up a tree on the ground.  The limb lock along with a tongue and groove cut were used.  With a bit of practice it becomes a lot easier. 

A few years ago a big ice storm laid a lot of trees over.  Great opportunity to obtain logs...I walked away from quite a few as the risk was not worth the potential return.  Another consideration is sometimes it takes too many hours to make the operation safe.  How much time do you want to invest in one log?

[terrifictimbersllc]

I passed on this one.  p.s. the larger section is 54" in diameter.  That's a man standing in front of the smaller diameter portion to the right.  (even though it looks like Predator, he was photoshopped out)

[Silver_Eagle]

Just a thought, do you have room to hook a chain/choker and flip it over with a truck or tractor? You might be able to put a half roll right over the top in the middle and roll it over leaving the bell to unhook on top then pull it right on the ground. 

[Magicman]

Yup, I would pass on that one for a different reason.  I see very little quality lumber.  One like that just needs an end tong thrown across it and pull it over.   ;D