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Sawing Used BC Fir Timbers

Started by Stephen1, February 11, 2012, 12:53:08 PM

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Bandmill Bandit

Dawn works good and is what i used up till Bibbyman's posts on blade lube set me on to using the murphy's oil soap. I like it better be cause I can use less over all fluid and still keep a clean band.
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Magicman

I use liquid Cascade mainly because it does not foam up when you fill the jug.  Generic and store brands do not work as well.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Brucer

Quote from: Left Coast Chris on March 04, 2012, 12:57:39 PM
...   Some are really pitchy.  I am thinking some Dawn dishwashing soap is a good idea. ...

In the "early days" I tried various concentrations and brands of liquid dish soap. I eventually found with Douglas-Fir I can generally get by with just water and windshield-washing fluid. The more pitch, the higher the concentration I use. For really bad buildup I flood the blade -- open the valve until I just see water collecting on the side of the cant above and below the blade. Sometimes I'll have to run the blade for several seconds after I finish a cut to clean it up again.

Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Stephen1

I am using pinesol and windshield fluid as it is still cold here, along with water.  I am finding only a few beams with pitch in it. In fact this wood is dry enough that I can run with out any fluid, if I add fluid it doesn't seem to make much difference except if I hit pitch, or the blade starts to slow down because it is getting dull.
My problem is the resharpening of the blades. A resharpened blade is not lasting as long as a brand new blade. Is this normal?
I am resetting the the teeth every sharpen, but am doing it before I sharpen, as I have trouble getting the burr  off after sharpening. Is a anyone else doing it this way.
How  many blades should I be able to resharpen in an hour? I am using an older woodmizer sharpener and setter, probably as old as the mill, 1993.
I am also going thru about 8-12 blades a day. One day no nails and I only used 4 blades all day which I believe should be normal.
The other problem is when the blades come out of the wood and just skim the surface, that dulls them super quick.  as at the end of the beam as I try to square them from the twist in them,  as I get to the far end and had not started deep enough at the start of cut.
Even though the boys have checked for hardware I am still hitting it. In fact on Friday I hit 3 screws in one cut, these were broken off in the wood, and I hit the bottom 3/4" of each screw. the boys are using a Milwaukee metal detector,
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

Brucer

The very best Douglas-Fir (structurally speaking) usually doesn't have much pitch.

The surface of reclaimed wood can picked up a lot of very fine particles during it's lifetime. If you skim the surface of one of these timbers you'll end up dulling the outside teeth a lot faster (as you noticed). For a large beam with some twist in it, I will check the two lowest corners (diagonally opposite) with a tape, and also the middle of the beam. Then I'll try to set my height to stay just under the surface at the lowest point. This doesn't always work out if you have a lot of twist and you're trying to meet a target thickness.

If you grind too deep, too fast, you could overheat the tips of your blades and temper them (i.e., take the hardness out). Once it has happened there isn't much you can do about it.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

redbeard

Stephen the cold weather might be helping blade keep cool but I have to really put the water to the blade when cutting the reclaimed. Brucer have you ever had a old growth reclaimed beam with a center in it twist or move  after you have cut the twists out. I had one move back to what it was after I squared it up it set in the sun for couple days I did get it pretty wet. Thought it was odd being a really old piece of wood.
Whidbey Woodworks and Custom Milling  2019 Cooks AC 3662T High production band mill and a Hud-son 60 Diesel wide cut bandmill  JD 2240 50hp Tractor with 145 loader IR 1044 all terrain fork lift  Cooks sharp

MHineman

  Wood-Mizer used to have plastic templates you could fit against the blade to determine the hook angle, etc.  I didn't think the plastic would last and didn't get one.
  When I was at a class WM put on at their headquarters on Feb 24, I got some blades and while I was sitting in the sales tech's cubicle and saw something interesting.  I now have a prototype steel template to easily check which blade I have and how well I've dressed the stone to follow the expected profile.

  The template fits against the blade.  Think of it as what was cut away to make the blade.  It has 4 degree, 7 degree, 9 degree, 10 degree, 13 degree, and 10 degree with 1 1/8 pitch.
1999 WM LT40, 40 hp 4WD tractor, homemade forks, grapple, Walenstein FX90 skidding winch, Stihl 460 039 saws,  homebuilt kiln, ......

Brucer

Quote from: redbeard on March 05, 2012, 11:13:12 PM
... Brucer have you ever had a old growth reclaimed beam with a center in it twist or move  after you have cut the twists out...

Yep! They weren't Douglas-Fir but they were old and very dry. They were rejects from a timber-framing project (because of the twist) and had been sitting around the timber-framer's shop. The foreman asked me to saw two parallel faces on each one so he could set up a test-fitting rig. About a week after I cut them they started to twist even further.

I think some wood just "wants" to be that way :D.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Stephen1

An update, the owner has decided that he will pay for an extension,  a little late but he plans on me cutting flooring and ceiling wood out of ther reject beams.
I have cut 150 beams so far, another 60 to go, once I get the extension set up tomorrow.
Any tips for setting it up . I have it installed and will add the brace tomorrow and fine tune the level on it.
I am getting very good now at sharpening blades, since I am going thru about 10 blades a day :o evern had one day cutting  16x24 beams frozen and full of grit, I went thru 20 blades, thank fullly I didn't hsave anymore sharpened and was able to quite for the day. I am getting real good at changing blades now.:D
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

Brucer

If your mill has the holes bored in the ends of the rails to align an extension, setup is pretty easy.

I cut a bunch of shims of varying thicknesses for fine tuning the height on mine. A farm jack is perfect for lifting the extension while you shim it. Check the alignment after a few cuts as the vibration from the saw head will cause the shims to compress a little.

Once the main beam is aligned properly, double check the height of all the bed rails. I have two 6' extensions and had to adjust the bed rails on both of them.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

colinofthewoods

I can't add any tips or insight to this topic,  but it is a really good read,  and a very interesting project. 

I'll bet you are getting very quick at changing blades too.  Be careful !  If you get too good at this you are going to spend the rest of your milling days cutting reclaimed wood, this might be your specialty.

pineywoods

Stephen1 re extension. If your mill doesn't have the holes in the ends of the rails for alignment pins...member slingshot came up with a homemade jig for drilling them. Go to slingshot's profile and list his posts to find the thread. I made one, have drilled the rails on 3 different mills locally. Makes a world of difference..
here's what the jig looks like



 



 



 
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Stephen1

Didn't realize there was a pin to go in the rails. I noticed the extension had holes in the rails, and of course my mill doesn't . I can see it would make the rails easier to align and keep them that way.
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

Jim_Rogers

My mill and extension didn't come with any holes either. It was something that they added later on.
I did get one of those drill holders from one nice guy here on the forum. He sent it to me after he was done with it, for me to use to drill mine out.
I got some drills, some bolt stock to make the pins and I have never found the time to do it yet.
The bed extension is not connected now.
I should try and find the time....

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

bandmiller2

Brucer,you deserve a pulletsaw prise for the information given in these posts,thanks. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

pineywoods

Without the alignment pins, it's DanG near impossible to keep the rails aligned. And it's a real pain to align them to start with. Well worth the time spent...
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Brucer

The newer mills are drilled for an extension. When you buy an extension there are a couple of "kits" that you have to buy as well. One of them contains the outside brace to the mill and the other contains the connection hardware. There are a couple of connection kits -- one for the older mill and one for the new ones.

If you drill out your mill I suggest you buy the two little "bullets" from Wood-Mizer. They're supposed to go into the extension, not the mill. They are specially hardened and one end is a tiny bit larger than the hole so once you hammer it in it will not come out. They guy I bought my first extension from had put the "bullets" in his mill and just could not get them out. Fortunately he was upgrading to a bigger extension so we had WM send me the two from his upgrade.

Quote from: bandmiller2 on March 16, 2012, 09:40:54 PM
Brucer,you deserve a pulletsaw prise for the information given in these posts,thanks. Frank C.

Thank you kindly. Just giving back a small part of what I've got from this forum. The real prize should go to Jeff for making this place what it is.


Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Stephen1

Well I thought today was a good time to thank Brucer for the detailed posting. With out it I would have had a lot steeper learning curve.
I finished the sawing job last week and took a weeks vacation up at the sugar bush, that was a little dismal, poor syrup season this year by the way, worst in 40 years.

Any ways I did learn a few things on this job. Saw dust in my blood for sure now, on the 2nd last day I was cutting, I asked myself if I could retire and do this, and it was Yes.
I can now set and sharpen blades, they do last as long as a new blade now.
I am still amazed that my sharpen and setter, I believe to be the same age as the mill, a 1993, it5 seems to be the same as what they are using now. I was told for a 15,000$ upgrade I could have a new fancy one.  ;D that does it all. I realise I was going thru an exceptional amount of blades, twice I went thru 18 blades, which is the only thing I didn't take into account when I started. Some nights I was sharpening till 1 in the morning and up at 5 to go cut. :o
I can change a blade pretty fast now.  :D
I believe it is southern yellow pine, or at least that's what I called is horrible stuff with the pitch that was in some of those beams, was horrible, the blade came off a couple of times from build up of pitch under the belt on the wheel,  I called it yellow glue.
It is easier on the mill to roll the cants into the uprights. Not such a pounding on the frame. 16x24 cants were pretty loud and the vibration and thumping when turning them :-\  and not as many marks in the cants from the turner or cant hooks. I did have to daily adjustments on leveling the mill, and twice daily with the extension as the frost came out of the ground, everything shifted.
Woodmizer is going to lend me their jig to drill the end of my rails. I just have to check this week as  there is a chance they are hardened steel, 1 out 4 were made like that back then so there will be a chance I can't drill it.
My old mill held up remarkably well for something built almost 20 years ago. I found Brian and everyone  at Wood Mizer Canada a great help, especially with my sometimes daily phone calls.
The forum and being on here over the years has really given me a lot of info so as to be able to even think about doing something like this.
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

colinofthewoods

It has been fun following along with your project,  thank you for taking the time to document it. I appreciate it.

Brucer

 smiley_thumbsup

You took on a lot there, Steve, but you made it work :) :).

Very nicely documented, too.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Jim_Rogers

Quote from: Stephen1 on April 03, 2012, 03:19:55 PM

Woodmizer is going to lend me their jig to drill the end of my rails. I just have to check this week as  there is a chance they are hardened steel, 1 out 4 were made like that back then so there will be a chance I can't drill it.

First of all, how to do you check to see if it is hardened steel?
And what are you going to do if it is?

I haven't drilled out mine yet, but I wanted to shortly as I have to bring it back home and set it up again with the bed extension.

I'm on a site now milling long timbers for a customer's future timber frame addition.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Magicman

Thanks for the update and wrap up Stephen1.  Yours has been an interesting project and I believe that everyone that followed it has learned something.   smiley_thumbsup
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Stephen1

Quote from: Jim_Rogers on April 04, 2012, 08:22:55 AM
Quote from: Stephen1 on April 03, 2012, 03:19:55 PM

Woodmizer is going to lend me their jig to drill the end of my rails. I just have to check this week as  there is a chance they are hardened steel, 1 out 4 were made like that back then so there will be a chance I can't drill it.
Hi Jim, I am told to take a center punch and try to mark the steel, if it leaves a mark I can drill it. If it ruins the center punch and no mark, it is hardened steel and I will not be able to drill it. Brian also says that I will have to be very accurate  with the drill.

First of all, how to do you check to see if it is hardened steel?
And what are you going to do if it is?

I haven't drilled out mine yet, but I wanted to shortly as I have to bring it back home and set it up again with the bed extension.

I'm on a site now milling long timbers for a customer's future timber frame addition.

Jim Rogers
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

captain_crunch

Glad it worked out for you was wondering about the water part Dry or standing dead Doug fir is about the only time I need water on my circle mill. Wish my buddy was still around these parts beings he has been doing this for a buisness fer about 15 years. In fact his company name is The Timber Recycler
M-14 Belsaw circle mill,HD-11 Log Loader,TD-14 Crawler,TD-9 Crawler and Ford 2910 Loader Tractor

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