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Extra wide boards-- yellow poplar and others

Started by Okrafarmer, February 08, 2012, 11:53:29 PM

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Okrafarmer

We are cleaning up a fair-to-midling Tuliptree (yeller poplar) that came down in a wind storm. I bucked it today and we plan to winch the logs out of the man's yard tomorrow. The butt log has some rot, but is about 30" on the top end.



 

I haven't scaled it out, but there should be over 1,000 bf in this tree. A good 76ft of logs, I think. The bottom four logs are over 24" including a 16 footer, a 12 footer, an 8 foot, and the butt log is 10' but has some rot and won't yield a true scaleout.

Anyway-- I have tried a search on the forum for "wide boards" but those two words occur in so many posts... well, you can probably imagine.

I am planning to mill up some of those logs and make some of it into really wide boards, like 16-24". That is, if you think that's a good idea-- I have sold some wide boards hot off the mill before, but this is the first time I will actually kiln dry some. Can anybody tell me, are there any problems associated with milling or drying extra wide yellow poplar, and for that matter, other common species? They will be professionally stickered and kiln dried. (not by me). I was thinking 4/4, but maybe other thicknesses would be better?   ??? :-\

He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Okrafarmer

BTW, that is a Husqvarna 266 with 28" bar sitting on top of the second log, which is 8' long.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Migal

I heard im going to need practice logs 8) anyway of shipping em to tx? :P great find. eh eh
Stihl learning and picked up my Log Master LM2 Cat 34hp 02 21 12! 230MF+ the toys that go with it! MS361 MS271 Stihl PB500 Echo 48" LogRite 16ft Bass Tracker Pro' Abua Garcia 5600 bait caster, Wood working equipment' Lake Lot never enough time! oh don't forget the fridge with ale! Loving Wife Rebeca

Okrafarmer

Quote from: Migal on February 09, 2012, 12:05:17 AM
I heard im going to need practice logs 8) anyway of shipping em to tx? :P great find. eh eh

Anything's available for a price, Migal!  8)
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

customsawyer

The biggest problem with the wide boards is that they will want to cup. Just make sure that they are on the bottom of the stack with plenty of weight on them.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
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Ron Wenrich

Any plans on how you or your potential customers are going to plane a wide board?  What is the end market? 

Cup is one problem you have with wide boards, the other is that they tend to split.  It depends on how much stress is in the log.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

scsmith42

+1 for Ron and Jake's comments.

It is wise to mill wide boards thicker than normal in order to provide ample room for post-drying flattening.  For a 20" board, I'll add 50% over and above normal if it is flat or rift sawn, 25%" if it is quartersawn. 

Said differently, I'll mill a 20" wide FS board at 1-1/2" if I want to yield 4/4 from it, 1-1/4 for QS.

Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
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FeltzE

No point in sawing more than 2 inches wider than your planer capability.

I''ve had good luck with wide poplar, but go ahead and split any of the boards within about3 inches of the pith as they may just split on their own if you don't relieve the stress before they dry

eric

terrifictimbersllc

YP is one of the easiest woods to saw wide & flat. It also works and finishes well.  Wide has customer appeal whether it makes sense or not. One can always rip, work and re-join a wide board to take out the cup without sacrificing a lot of thickness.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

WDH

I would think thicker like Scott said, and on the really wide stuff, leave the live edge on.  If you or a customer wants to take it off later, it is easy to do.  However, the thicker plank and the live edge will conjure up all kinds of neat uses in peoples heads when they see them.  Also, leaving the live edge on will allow to get the absolute maximum width of the center boards in the log.  I have found that the thicker and wider live edge stuff sells.

You can cut the wide stuff from the center third of the log leaving the live edge on, then take the two other thirds, the top and the bottom, turn them 90 degrees, and get almost all rift and quarter sawn material.  With logs this big, you will still get some nice wide quarter sawn boards out of the top and bottom thirds.

If you leave the bark on the live edge pieces instead of peeling it off, you can spray the boards with a borate solution to keep any bugs at bay. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Qweaver

I first started sawing to build a cabin.  I had no idea what I was doing.  I made a lot of 16" to 20" wide poplar sawn 1.125" thick that I used for decking and sheathing.  Many/most of the wide boards cupped so badly that I had to saw them in half in place and they were still a problem.  Now, I rarely saw poplar more than 8" to 10" wide.  You may be able to saw wide quarter sawn that will stay pretty straight as long as you stay a couple inches away from the pith.  I usually just cut through the pith and then split the board when I resaw.
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WDH

I also leave the pith in the wide center boards.  The pith section holds the two halves together to facilitate straight drying of the board.  Then, you can cut it out when you use the board.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Okrafarmer

My planing contractor has a 30" planer.

I will go through the stack and have the widest ones put on the bottom. They are likely to air dry, stickered, for a month or two before going in the kiln. This professional kiln dries yp on a daily basis, as well as other species, so I will check with them before milling to see what they say, too.

It would be easy enough to resaw out the pith. I was thinking about doing that anyway. But I could leave it if you think it's better. Should we stack any pith boards with rings smile-side up, or frown-side up?

And about that borate solution, where do you get it, and what is it called if you go looking for it?

This is my 1,000th post!  8)
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Tree Feller

I use Timbor  http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/timbor-p-144.html

I would stack the flat sawn boards bark side down. I would also rip the pith out of the center milled boards. That will render two quartersawn boards as well as getting rid of the unstable pith.
Cody

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Cutting Edge

A fella I know does cabinets, and he was giving me some pointers when I first bought my mill.  He advised to leave poplar 2x as thick as the unfinished boards needed to be, dry, and then resaw/plane.  He told some horror stories, and then found this to be the best way to reduce cupping, twist, etc. and gain the most finished lumber.  Made sense to me, but I don't build cabinets either. 
"Winning an argument isn't everything, as long as you are heard and understood" - W.S.


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Dodgy Loner

Quote from: FeltzE on February 09, 2012, 06:17:47 AM
No point in sawing more than 2 inches wider than your planer capability.

That's why I have a planer with unlimited planing capacity. Best of all, it was given to me for free by a fellow who didn't use it any more ;D

"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

terrifictimbersllc

DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Magicman

I wuz lookin for da cord where ya plug dat sucker in.   :P   ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

terrifictimbersllc

DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Okrafarmer

We winched the logs out today.



 

I was so busy I forgot to take any pix of the process. :-\

The smallest diameter log on there came from a different tree. There were several logs from the big one that did not go on this load, including the 8-footer the chainsaw was on in the original picture. That one we took with miscellaneous pallet logs and smaller saw logs to sell at the big production mill nearby.

You can see the base of the butt log. There is some rot, but lots of useable wood. Over 1200 bf on that load.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

WDH

Solubor is the same stuff as Timbor, but is labeled as a fertilizer additive for boron.  It has the exact same active ingredient and in the same concentration.  But, it is about 2/3rds the cost of Timbor, which is labeled as an insecticide and fungicide.  50#'s of Solubor costs a little less than $50.  You get it at an Ag Chemical supply store or store that sells seed, fertilizer and herbicides to farmers. Mix one pound of Solubor to one gallon of water and spray it on the boards until they are totally wet. 

Those big logs scream for thick wide center cuts with the live edge!
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Magicman

Quote from: WDH on February 09, 2012, 09:35:27 PM
Those big logs scream for thick wide center cuts with the live edge! 

I distinctly heard one calling for the Magicman to "please come and saw me......please.   ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Okrafarmer

Listen, folks, we have many more of those logs if people want to come buy them. I can arrange that all day long. Sometimes bigger than these. I can arrange it. If you'd like to pay around $400 / bf I can make it happen, no problem! We only got around to these ones because we were being paid to haul them off!

Seriously, MM, I would be happy to meet up with you sometime. Maybe one day I could bring you a truckload of logs that I have that you don't have, and you could load me up with things I don't have in abundance-- cypress, maybe....

8)
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Magicman

Meeting would be wonderful but unfortunately, I do not have Cypress, I just saw customer's logs.  When the time comes you just come hungry and you can load up with "Crisped Chickin".   ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Okrafarmer

If I'm ever headed that way, I'll see if I can come on down and split a grit with you!  ;)
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

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