CB EC-2400 High Altitude Fire Problems Solved

Bob Lentz · February 07, 2012, 11:07:41 AM

I have been up and running with my 2400 for about 3 weeks now. Until yesterday, i had been beating my head against the wall trying to keep the fire going. Tried everything but in the end, the problem was due to lack of oxygen at this altitude (9000 ft above sea level) inside the firebox.

I was given a tip by another high altitude CB owner to open up a small gap in the firebox using the "plug" in the rear of the box for the gas assisted fire start. I loosened the nut on the plug all-thread in the electrical box and just opened up about 1/2" gap and re-tightened the plug.

It burned all night and we woke to a very thick, hot bead of coals! Just re-loaded the firebox for another round. Oxygen is wonderful thing!

This spring i'm going to make up a new "Plug" with small holes drilled in so it's not such a large gap.

Hope this helps anybody else fighting with OWB at high altitude.

brokentoe · February 07, 2012, 12:29:08 PM

Your EClassic has a fan to inject air when needed. I would think that leaving a port open like that would overheat the stove and could also lead to other unforseen circumstances? I would start by getting a good coal bed established and adjust the air pulse timing if necessary. The owner manual has the instructions on how to do that. Have you talked to your dealer about this?

Dean186 · February 07, 2012, 03:26:19 PM

I would echo the statement about talking to your dealer since he lives above 9,000 feet. That is, if your dealer is Gene, a very knowledgeable guy. I remember him mentioning that several years ago, maybe 2008, Central Boiler was installing larger fans in the high altitude stoves. Central Boiler then started putting the larger fan in all their stoves. That is how I remember the conversation, it may not be correct.

I live at 7,600 feet and don't have any problems with the normal setup for my e-classic 1400.

I am glad to here it is working for you, but I would be concerned about fuel usage and the possibility of over heating as mention above.

Dean

Dean186 · February 07, 2012, 03:34:55 PM

PS Having another opening in the firebox besides the one at the bottom of the firebox doesn't sound like a good idea when the unit cycles. One would get less air where intended, although it would be a small amount. Also, very hot air to even flames could exit this new opening.

If you just want air into the box while it sets idle, one could do the old paper clip thing at the solenoid, or drill a hole in the solenoid cover. But again, this shouldn't be necessary with new control panel.

Bob Lentz · February 07, 2012, 04:17:56 PM

My dealer was the one who connected me with his other high altitude customer.
I hear ya on the concerns - not sure what to do. I have tried every imaginable configuration of pulse settings with no success.
I would agree that the pulse controls are designed to keep the fire going.
I am going to arrange a call between engineers/designers at CB, my dealer and myself to discuss.
will keep you all posted!

Bob Lentz · February 07, 2012, 04:22:22 PM

What is the paperclip trick?

Dean186 · February 07, 2012, 04:48:24 PM

Quote from: Bob Lentz on February 07, 2012, 04:22:22 PM
What is the paperclip trick?

Well first, I don't recommend it for the E-Classis 2400. It was used on the early 2300s that did not have the intelligent controller. The new controllers pulse air into the firebox during the idle stage where the first 2300s did not have this option. I believe a paper clip was installed around the metal cover for the main air intake. This would let some air into the firebox during the idle stage and have no effect during burn mode.

boilerman101 · February 07, 2012, 07:47:27 PM

Bob, I can't understand how if you are following all the great advice being given from forum users, you are still having all these problems.
I agree with Dean that I would not have any gap open or holes in what I believe you are describing as the optional ignition burner tube plug.
Ash, heat and possibly even fire could come back into your airbox, melt wires or ruin your solenoids or other componants in there.
As stated, the air pulse capability of your firestar controller set at 50 seconds every 12 minutes or so should take care of keeping your fire going.
As an owner of an E2400 I just can't understand how that won't work. I can run mine on just a water heater draw with 75 degree outdoor temps.
Another question, since you are new, does your wood have a year of seasoning on it or is it fresh cut? What is the diameter of your wood.Is it split? So many of the issues you are reporting I have found to be common with non-seasoned wood or large wood. If it is, you just need to load with more charcoaled wood logs left in your firebox at loading time and not burn it down to just coals...Often wetter wood will go out after just one burn cycle if there is not enough good dry chared wood under that new load of damp wood. Again, don't over think this and don't get frustrated.

Bob Lentz · February 07, 2012, 08:08:04 PM

my wood is mid-range moisture - 12-14% well over a year old, but not split for that long.

Wood is all split.
diameters of split are 4"-8" quarters - spruce and fir. I am going to try some pinion pine too.

I agree w/ all of you - i should not have to do this and i'm going to re-install the plug properly at my next clean out. I did check the area where the igniter tube is and it's not damaged/hot .

The only other thing i can think of is the main air-intake is not working correclty.

wayno12 · February 08, 2012, 09:09:46 AM

I have the EC-2400 and I have to say, not all dealers are worthy of their advice. I am actually surprised that he would recommend that type of "fix". How often is your stove cycling in idle mode and for how often? That alone should fix your problem. Are you sure your heat demand is enough to stoke the fire long enough to get a good burn going?

Bob Lentz · February 08, 2012, 11:08:44 AM

i need to watch it closer w/ regards to the cycles.
We are heating our pool along w/ the house so during the daytime, the pool is putting a huge draw on the system.
At night, we like it cool and the pool is off, so i would imagine we are not putting much of a draw on the system.
However, the one thing that was really stumping me is before the extra oxygen, we would routinely wake up to no coals and un-burnt wood.
I don't understand how that was happening but if there was enough oxygen to burn the coals but not enough to actually re-ignite the fire wood.

wayno12 · February 08, 2012, 11:39:57 AM

Bob, are you getting "bridgeing" with your pieces of wood? Is that why coals are gone but wood remains? Typically, when I have your situation, it is because of low demand on the boiler and the only way to correct it is cycling more often for longer periods of time. If you are lacking oxygen, then it makes all the more sense that the cycling would solve your problem. I sure don't think I would do it the way you are now by loosening the bolt. That dealer should be flogged for even suggesting that.

Bob Lentz · February 08, 2012, 11:50:36 AM

So, in low demand situations like overnight, what you set the pulse settings to?
In low demand, to get more cycles, one would need a lower temp differential, say 6-7 degrees? Problem is, it won't burn long enough because the temp will come back up quicker.

What we need is more cycles in low demand - how to manage that?

Dean186 · February 08, 2012, 12:10:45 PM

For those that are following this thread closely, I wanted to state that Bob's dealer is not Gene, the guy I mentioned above. I know this by the PM exchanges I have had with Bob.

wayno12 · February 08, 2012, 12:20:21 PM

Bob, when not heating your pool, what is the outdoor temp typically at night and how many sq ft are you heating? I am heating 3000 sq ft in a very well insulated house and DHW. Our typical outdoor temps have been usually in the 20's at night. I only have trouble exactly like you are having during the summer when on the days I am not heating my outdoor swimming pool but only heating DHW, I do not have enough demand to keep the fire stoked. I could change the settings to cycle more often but I didn't only because it was never a issue for me. I just hit the remaining wood in the firebox with my big brush burning torch and in 30 seconds I was back in business.

Bob Lentz · February 08, 2012, 12:35:37 PM

I did see some "bridging" of wood on occasion.
Our temps at night are 0-10 up here. So, it's cold.
I am heating 4000 sqft of really well insulated house - radiant floor heat. No DHW or Snow Melt.
We keep the house cool at night - Programmable thermostats set for 68 at night. Sleeping quarters (2nd floor) drop off to 65 during the day. 1st floor temps are set at 71 24x7 because the slab is so thick, no point in letting it drop below that and have to re-heat it.

I was thinking of having the pool heat run 24x7 to keep the demand up. But that seems crazy.

wayno12 · February 08, 2012, 12:45:55 PM

Wow, at those temps at night, I'd be afraid to go to sleep and not wake up! Just kidding. I keep my whole house at 75 degrees 24/7. Maybe bridging is more of the issue than the oxygen. At least that what it sounds like to me. When my fire has gone out with wood in the firebox during the cold months, bridging was always the culprit. I have recently started loading my firebox from front to back instead of side to side and have not had a bridgeing problem since. I think you are suffering from a very low demand of heat on the boiler. That is a good problem to have! Tells you your house is in good shape! I believe you said you used to cycle at 8 min intervals on earlier posts. Everyone, including me, thought that was excessive. However, maybe in your situation, it is not excessive. Try setting your temp differential to 15 degrees but cycle at closer intervals for as long as possible.

Bob Lentz · February 08, 2012, 03:15:41 PM

Re-Installed Plug
Lowered the burst frequency to every 8 minutes for 50 seconds
Had a good bed of coals, 3/4 full of wood since load up this AM

I felt we were using twice as much wood w/ the plug open but then that's obvious.
Let's see if we can keep her going.

wayno12 · February 08, 2012, 05:01:51 PM

Excellent! Can you keep us posted as to whether this is a permant solution or not. Would be interesting to know how these little changes affect the actual operation.

wayno12 · February 08, 2012, 05:04:01 PM

If the length of your wood will allow it, try stacking from front to back in the firebox. This really helped eliminating "bridgeing" for me. I was really struggling with that problem early on this winter. No problems since I changed stacking direction.

Bob Lentz · February 08, 2012, 05:46:16 PM

here we go again w/ the balled up high burn -

Just watching the stove and the water temp is 173 - needs to bring back to 185.
Low burn initiated, reactor chamber temp got to about 550 and then started going back down! aaaaahhhhh

I just don't get it. This never happened while the plug was cracked a bit. It's starving for air - it's obvious.

Bob Lentz · February 08, 2012, 06:02:53 PM

Maybe i don't understand what the "process" is.

I would think that when water temp gets below threshold, it should low fire until reaction chamber hits 750, and then it high fires until water is up to temp.

Is not that the way it should work?

Also, i just realized that my plumber didn't install the thermostatic valve. Not sure why that would have an impact. All it does it recycle the water inside the boiler until it reaches temp, then it opens. Would not this valve be constantly opening and closing?

Also, the distance between my stove and the heat exchanger is 30 feet. Not much for sure.

Roger2561 · February 09, 2012, 06:02:45 AM

Hello Bob,

I'm new in this forum but I frequent other forums looking for hints on how to operate the e-classics. I own an e-classic 1400 but mine has been up and running since late Oct. 2011 so I'm no pro. It was installed in sept. 2011.

I believe you have a clear understanding of how these things operate. I would report back to your dealer and insist that he test the controller to be sure it's operating properly. From what I've read, you're doing every right and there is no reason your e-classic 2400 shouldn't operate better than that and reach your temp. set points. Just this morning when I went outside to stoke the eclassic 1400, I'm always amazed watching the reaction chamber temps rise from the lower 200's to over 1500 in a matter of a few minutes followed shortly by the rise in water temps. Roger

Bob Lentz · February 09, 2012, 06:11:04 PM

Update: fire went out last night after closing gap in plug.
So, back to square 1. Spoke to engineer at CB and he thinks the stove is not drafting do to it's proximity to our House. I am going to add 2 more sections of chimeny to it and see how that does.

Dean186 · February 10, 2012, 11:20:36 AM

Bob,

I hope that helps, but it doesn't seem to me like adding more chimney will fix the problem. Although, I don't have a solution and if Central Boiler is suggesting it, then they are the experts.

Our stove sets 25 feet from our house and sometimes the wind pushes the smoke/steam/heatwave straight down and it doesn't seem to effect the burn cycle.

Dean