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WPF questions

Started by Qweaver, February 06, 2012, 07:36:35 AM

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Qweaver

We are going to saw white oak this morning.  I've watched the Peterson CD many times but the sawing info in it is pretty basic.  I plan to make 1x10s.  Should the left hand and top side of the log be dressed off first?  Can I make 10" deep cuts in one pass?   I sure wish that I could have got down to Scotts place to get some tutoring. 

Quinton
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

terrifictimbersllc

I don't think of it as dressing the log, but rather dressing the left and top sides of the next board to be sawn.   At the beginning of cutting a log, one is cutting a waste off of the left and top sides of the next board.  What one doesn't want to do is to free an incompletely sawn board from the log.    Look at a diagram or make one yourself and practice numbering the cuts.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Qweaver

Is this what you mean?   This would require 4 cuts per board.    The first two cuts on the left side of the log, then the horizontal cut to get the width of the board, then the final vertical cut to release the board.
The alternative is to make a 10" cut horizontal and release the top slab on the return vertical cut...a horz. cut 10" down on the left side then release the side slab on the return.  This would waste a little more log but would be much faster.  Allowing for blade thickness is a whole lot harder also.  I drew this to scale based on a 22" log making as many 1x10s as i could and adding 1/4" for kerf.



 


  
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

scsmith42

Quote from: Qweaver on February 06, 2012, 07:36:35 AM
We are going to saw white oak this morning.  I've watched the Peterson CD many times but the sawing info in it is pretty basic.  I plan to make 1x10s.  Should the left hand and top side of the log be dressed off first?  Can I make 10" deep cuts in one pass?   I sure wish that I could have got down to Scotts place to get some tutoring. 

Quinton

Quinton, are you sawing for grade or yield?  If grade, in terms of preferance I would mill 1 x 10's as quartersawn and rift sawn as my first choice, and as cathedral centered flat sawn as my second choice.

If you're milling solely for yield, then you can follow something similar to the diagrams above, with the understanding that the boards will most likely cup as they dry, and your final appearance will not be as attractive as the grade sawn boards.

Yes, you can make a 10" cut in one pass; however when cutting wide boards horizontally I have found that it is faster to make around a 6" pass first, and then back up and make the second 4" pass to get my 10" board, as opposed to cutting 10" all in one pass.

For vertical cuts, I'll mill the 10" in one pass, taking my time so that the carriage does not jump up and down too much.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Qweaver

Hey Scott,
Is this what you are suggesting?   BTW, that's an 8x8 bunk not a 2x8.  Well the frost is gone and it's time to get to making sawdust.  Being retired has many benefits.  One is going to work when ya want to. :D



 
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

terrifictimbersllc

I wasn't talking about any particular cutting pattern.  Whether you do it as your diagram or have taller vertical QS boards out of the top center might depend on where you think the best material will come from, as you know the growth rings aren't always perfect circles.  Agree about making deep horizontal cuts in 2 passes when over about 6" in hardwood and going slow with one deep vertical cut (you will find out whether or not your belts are slipping doing this).

Watch out for the screws in those 2x4's I find it more usual than not to cut into the bunks once in a while, often on purpose. That's the reason notches are better.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

scsmith42

Quote from: Qweaver on February 06, 2012, 11:04:33 AM
Hey Scott,
Is this what you are suggesting?   BTW, that's an 8x8 bunk not a 2x8.  Well the frost is gone and it's time to get to making sawdust.  Being retired has many benefits.  One is going to work when ya want to. :D



 

Quinton, that will work, except with oak you don't want to include any pith wood in your boards if you can help it.  I usually will box the center of the log; making a 4 x 4 for cribbing, and that keeps the pith wood out of the boards.  Compared with your diagram, usually I will mill the vertical boads on top deeper than your diagram.

Rather than nailing 2 x 4's to your bunks, if you take a chainsaw and cut some square notches they work fine in holding the log.  Sometimes you have to put a wedge on th back side of the log, but it is surprising how well the notches work.  I usually cut mine about 4" deep and 6" wide in an 8" x 8" bunk.

For the best quartersawn, when you set the log in place center the pith between the rails, as well as centered in height above the rails.  I keep a stack of 1 x 8's and 2 x 8's on hand that are the same lengths as my bunks so that I can adjust the height on the small end of the log as needed to center the pith.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Qweaver

Thanks Scott,
I'm going to make some 10"x10" slotted bunks to day.
Also, I have a rhythmatic wobbling going on in the horizontal cuts.  It's moving the tracks quite a bit.  The cuts are still OK but it's un-nerving to see that much movement even on 6" cuts.

Quinton
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

scsmith42

Quinton, there should not be much if any movement of your tracks.  You might try swapping to a different blade to see if that fixes the problem.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

terrifictimbersllc

Track gets raised by the center support  about 3/8" to take  out the sag.  Should be pushed to the ground pretty hard when the mill weight gets near it.  If this foot is  moving side to side you can fix it to the ground the foot has a hole in it.  Also make sure your sheaths aren't too loose, about a half turn of the wrench loose from the tight position.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Qweaver

I slowed down my feed speed and that got rid of the wobble.  But I'm cutting pretty slow in this white oak.  I tried making 2 passes on the 10" cuts and that helped also.  I think I am cutting faster on my band saw but it is so nice not having to turn these big, heavy logs.  Peterson said that the water feed can be really low...just dripping.  That worked well also...I'm getting much less wet now.  It's really easy to quarter saw with this machine.
It takes a whole nuther set of muscles to operate this saw...I'm sore in places that I haven't been sore in for a while.  :D
It's snowing today so I guess I'll give the body a break.
I went to rehab for the last time today.  The new saw will be my rehab from now on.  ::)

Quinton
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Qweaver

When I put the first blade on the saw there was no freewheeling between blade and motor.  When I changed the blade there was and I could freely turn the blade without the engine turning.  When I sawed the next day...no freewheeling.  If there is a clutch it is not working most of the time.  I'll recheck the book today and send Peterson an email.  The saw comes to a very "clunky" stop when I shut off the engine at idle.  A clutch that works when the engine is at idle would stop that. 
Quinton
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

terrifictimbersllc

Wondering if your belts are loose?  In one of the two positions, vertical or horizontal, I forget, the belts are a bit tighter than in the other position.  If your belts were very loose perhaps one position would freely turn.  That's the only thing I can think of, would like to hear what the answer is.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

scsmith42

Quinton, mine does not have a clutch - if the motor is turning, so is the blade.  The belts tend to stretch, so you might check your belt tension.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Qweaver

The belt tension is correct.  When I assembled the saw the engine turned with the blade.  Then I had to change the blade because of hitting metal.  I was surprised that the blade turned freely.  I'll find out today.  The book is down at the saw shed.  A centrifugal clutch would be a good idea.
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Wife

Qweaver your mill does have a centrifugal clutch, plus a mechnical clutch brake.
When your blade is not freewheeling, the brake is engaged.
When it is easy to turn (with motor off), the brake has disengaged.
The brake will engage when you turn your motor down, it quickly slows the blade spinning, as a safety device. CE Safety requires any spinning blade to stop within 10 seconds from full rpm.
That clunky noise is it stopping the blade.
To disengage when turned off, use your hand to rotate the blade anti-clockwise.
Or you can turn the key a short-sharp turn and off, that will work too.
If the blade is still spinning while idling, either;
  Idle is too high on motor and clutch is engaging
  Brake is locked on and may need disengaging and grease/antisize put on the threaded part of the unit.
Chris also puts antisieze on the friction pad (between the clutch brake pieces), to reduce how agressive the stopping motion is. It works very well! Without grease it will stop in 2-3 seconds, with grease it will stop in 7-9 seconds.

Any other questions, we're here to help ;-))
Kerris
Kerris, in the background....
Petersons Global Sales Ltd
15c Hyland Cres
Rotorua, New Zealand
www.petersonsawmills.com
kbrowne@petersonsawmills.com
Ph +64 7 3480863

Wife

SCSmith42 - we would believe you will have a clutch too. Most likely the clutch brake is seized on and has been for a while. You can free it by removing the brake unit, pulling the unit apart and greasing it well. Ensure when you re-fit, that it turns no more than 1/4 turn before engaging. Any more than that, and it will lock even harder/tighter making it harded to disengage later.

Feel free to email me direct on kbrowne@petersonsawmills.com if you have any other questions.

cheers
Kerris
Kerris, in the background....
Petersons Global Sales Ltd
15c Hyland Cres
Rotorua, New Zealand
www.petersonsawmills.com
kbrowne@petersonsawmills.com
Ph +64 7 3480863

scsmith42

Quote from: Wife on February 13, 2012, 06:38:30 PM
SCSmith42 - we would believe you will have a clutch too. Most likely the clutch brake is seized on and has been for a while. You can free it by removing the brake unit, pulling the unit apart and greasing it well. Ensure when you re-fit, that it turns no more than 1/4 turn before engaging. Any more than that, and it will lock even harder/tighter making it harded to disengage later.

Feel free to email me direct on kbrowne@petersonsawmills.com if you have any other questions.

cheers
Kerris

Kerris, thanks for the info; I'll check that out.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

terrifictimbersllc

Is that clutch & brake what's on the end of the engine drive shaft after the pulley?
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Qweaver

Thanks Kerris, 
I'll fix it as soon as it gets warmer.  It's funny that it will work only some  of the time.

Quinton
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Qweaver


This morning I removed the belt cover and pecked on the clutch and that freed up the clutch. I hope this is not a recurring problem.
Also the battery was dead. This is a new battery so I'm suspecting a current draw from somewhere. I have run the saw enough that the battery should have been fully charged. I've got it on the charger now and I'll give it enough time to fully charge and we will see.  But if it happened it's likely to happen again.  After about 10 minutes on the charger I had enough charge to start the engine and check the clutch and it worked fine. These are small problems but enough to be time consuming and a nuisance.  Not really what you'd expect from a new saw. 

So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

terrifictimbersllc

I store my mill with the red cutoff switch button depressed which cuts off power to the starter/engine. Noticed a current draw right away as a little spark at the battery terminal.  Haven't had any problem since but never figured it out.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Qweaver

OK, everything worked as it should yesterday.  Depressing the red button seemed to stop the battery problem.  The clutch worked as it should. 
We had planned to saw all day today but it's raining cats and dogs.  Aggggg!  I'm working in a covered shed but you still get wet handling the logs, moving and stacking the lumber, etc.  Maybe tomorrow.
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

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