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Author Topic: winch problems?  (Read 3193 times)

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Offline treefarmer87

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winch problems?
« on: February 02, 2012, 08:41:18 pm »
my gearmatic stopped working. the inside parts are pitted and rusted :( it leaks in the center and new seals didnt stop the leak because of the pitting. forestry and construction parts want $5500 for a complete winch rebuild. they also have a t-40 timberjack winches for $2000-$3000. since my friend sold the c5 i was going to buy i am going to fix my skidder up. i need a new winch but am not sure what to do. i was thinking of getting another gearmatic, like a 19 or 119, but will a 119 go on my skidder without modifications?. i could get a grapple and arch assembly and controls for $1500 but i dont want to go cutting and welding on my skidder and mess something up. im just not sure what to do ??? on another note i am going to go to forestery and construction tomm. and pic up my " new" slasher saw. i will post pics tomm. :)
Amazing wife
1988 IH 1600 7.3
1980 Treefarmer C6D grapple
Prentice H knuckleboom with FEC 1550 slasher
Sthil 460 Magnum
Jonsered 2172
Jonsered 2255
Husqvarna 576  XP

Offline DDDfarmer

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Re: winch problems?
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2012, 10:12:40 pm »
I have seen a good machinist bore out and install bushings.  Is there someone in your area that could do this?  That is if the winch is worth-while and you would like to keep it.

My gearmatic service manual refers to a 19 as a dozer winch and the 119 as a skidder winch, yet basicly the same winch.  Just different sealing options.

As you have a gearmatic winch now you might be able to use the same base, just change the winch for a 119.

Sometimes its better to get what you have fixed properly, you already know the pro's and con's
Treefarmer C5C with cancar 20 (gearmatic 119) winch, Cat D6 9U dozer, Husky 562xp 55 Stihl 250 chainsaws, too many farm tractors and implements, 80+ beef cows, feedlot to grow and supply our beef sales, snowmachines, dirt bikes and fourwheelers to keep us and kids busy when there is nothing to do

Offline Migal

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Re: winch problems?
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2012, 12:00:01 am »
I would carry it to a Machinist and have it ground and sleeved if rest is good do it all the time on pump shafts  8)   note use locktight on sleeve
Stihl learning and picked up my Log Master LM2 Cat 34hp 02 21 12! 230MF+ the toys that go with it! MS361 MS271 Stihl PB500 Echo 48" LogRite 16ft Bass Tracker Pro' Abua Garcia 5600 bait caster, Wood working equipment' Lake Lot never enough time! oh don't forget the fridge with ale! Loving Wife Rebeca

Offline jocco

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Re: winch problems?
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2012, 08:33:50 am »
Tree farmer take a deep breath, smiley_skull maybe we can help. Yes $5500 is high What model is it 9 19 119??? What is leaking?? Yes as others said it can probably be machined. Also check Many other new/used dealers. But be carfull of some old used winch it may not be any better than what you have. Do you need some contacts of dealers? It can run $2-3000 to do a major on some winches Others a few hundred. Hope i can help a bit. ;D
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Offline treefarmer87

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Re: winch problems?
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2012, 08:53:42 am »
the center where the hose and 4 allen screws leaks and wont stop. I would like to convert it to a 119, the one i have now is a 19. For what it costs to get it redone is what i paid for my skidder.     
Amazing wife
1988 IH 1600 7.3
1980 Treefarmer C6D grapple
Prentice H knuckleboom with FEC 1550 slasher
Sthil 460 Magnum
Jonsered 2172
Jonsered 2255
Husqvarna 576  XP

Offline DDDfarmer

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Re: winch problems?
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2012, 11:05:19 am »
Models 19 and 119 are the same, check this out;

http://www.paccarwinch.com/pdf/j358j.pdf
Treefarmer C5C with cancar 20 (gearmatic 119) winch, Cat D6 9U dozer, Husky 562xp 55 Stihl 250 chainsaws, too many farm tractors and implements, 80+ beef cows, feedlot to grow and supply our beef sales, snowmachines, dirt bikes and fourwheelers to keep us and kids busy when there is nothing to do

Offline lumberjack48

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Re: winch problems?
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2012, 01:49:52 pm »
treefamer87  i think thats an easy fix, have you converted that to a live swivel yet ?
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Offline treefarmer87

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Re: winch problems?
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2012, 04:20:43 pm »
What will the live swivel do
Amazing wife
1988 IH 1600 7.3
1980 Treefarmer C6D grapple
Prentice H knuckleboom with FEC 1550 slasher
Sthil 460 Magnum
Jonsered 2172
Jonsered 2255
Husqvarna 576  XP

Offline tjdub

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Re: winch problems?
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2012, 04:55:37 pm »
the center where the hose and 4 allen screws leaks and wont stop.

Looking at the PDF that DDDFarmer posted, it looks like there's a sleeve pressed into that shaft where the seal and o-ring go.  Part #26 on the Ring Gear, Pinion, and Shaft diagram (A9506 part number).  Perhaps it's just bronze sleeve?   If that sleeve is just worn out, it shouldn't cost too much to get a new one pressed in to that shaft.

Offline lumberjack48

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Re: winch problems?
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2012, 05:15:19 pm »
What set up do you have in the center cap? the little o-rings
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Offline lumberjack48

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Re: winch problems?
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2012, 05:48:31 pm »
I found a example of a live swivel, it will screw in to the center cap, the cap with the 4 bolts, it will have to be taped for the right threads, mine was left hand.
I got the swivel from Napa.
This is just a pic, not the right part

 
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Offline lumberjack48

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Re: winch problems?
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2012, 06:14:24 pm »
Heres Surplus center, I'm not sure winch one would be the right size, you want the lowest profile one so your tear drop cover will work with a little modification.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/sort.asp?catname=hydraulic&keyword=HFLS
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Offline treefarmer87

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Re: winch problems?
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2012, 06:18:18 pm »
thanks so much for your help
Amazing wife
1988 IH 1600 7.3
1980 Treefarmer C6D grapple
Prentice H knuckleboom with FEC 1550 slasher
Sthil 460 Magnum
Jonsered 2172
Jonsered 2255
Husqvarna 576  XP

Offline DDDfarmer

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Re: winch problems?
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2012, 06:47:25 pm »
Here is a pic of the live swivel on my cancar 20 ( gearmatic 19/119 )


 

 

if you look at page 21/22 in my prior attachment you will see this is part #17.  there is an update to the live swivel as shown in my pic, this may be the repair kit # 57625 shown on pg 22 #2 at the bottom.

Great system does not leak, just remember it is a left hand thread.

hope this helps
Treefarmer C5C with cancar 20 (gearmatic 119) winch, Cat D6 9U dozer, Husky 562xp 55 Stihl 250 chainsaws, too many farm tractors and implements, 80+ beef cows, feedlot to grow and supply our beef sales, snowmachines, dirt bikes and fourwheelers to keep us and kids busy when there is nothing to do

Offline jocco

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Re: winch problems?
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2012, 07:12:15 pm »
Tree farmer look at the posts as myself and ED k had a discuion on this about a month ago. Yes that leak can be fixed way short of $5500 If the rest of winch is good ring pinion? Might be good chance to do bearings and bands? Again way short of $5500. I am not nocking the figure from that company i just did a modle #9 and it had $55000 worth of curses in it ;D net parts was about $900 Very minor difference in 19 119. Need any other help just holler.




thanks so much for your help
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Offline treefarmer87

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Re: winch problems?
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2012, 08:54:30 pm »
My winch has new bands and the bearings are good. I found a company called arrow west equip. They have all kinds of winches there i would like a 119 because they say they are a better winch and they are unsealed. Nobody i know around here really knows about winches because its all tree length planted pine and grapple skidders.         
Amazing wife
1988 IH 1600 7.3
1980 Treefarmer C6D grapple
Prentice H knuckleboom with FEC 1550 slasher
Sthil 460 Magnum
Jonsered 2172
Jonsered 2255
Husqvarna 576  XP

Offline jocco

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Re: winch problems?
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2012, 09:19:43 pm »
Yes it is same in many areas the people that worked on them are dead. Gearmatic is pac-car corporaton now. That leak was the curse on them used to swell the bands up and they would not pull out. Also check your hose and cylinder plus the pipe fittings for leaks. Parts men are not any help as they do not know the product for the most part. I do not agree on the 119 there is not that  much difference and they had same problems. hope things work out well.
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Offline lumberjack48

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Re: winch problems?
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2012, 02:00:02 pm »
I had a 119 on a 1979 S8A International i bought new, like jocco is saying it is basically the same winch you have. That 19 like serve you good with a little care for many yrs..
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Offline treefarmer87

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Re: winch problems?
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2012, 04:38:01 pm »
i was at the junkyard today looking for a parts winch all i found was a franklin
Amazing wife
1988 IH 1600 7.3
1980 Treefarmer C6D grapple
Prentice H knuckleboom with FEC 1550 slasher
Sthil 460 Magnum
Jonsered 2172
Jonsered 2255
Husqvarna 576  XP

Offline Ed_K

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Re: winch problems?
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2012, 06:01:00 pm »
$5500. for a total rebuild doesn't sound to bad.I had troubles with the hand controler awhile back and the gearmatic dealer wanted 5k for the controler my parts guy called them back and said we're not looking for a whole winch,and gearmatic said the winch runs $25000.  :o :o :o .
 Tap that center plate and get a live swivel from napa.around $70. fix.I taped mine with 1/4 npt right hand thds haven't had any problems.After a yr I changed the o-rings in the swivel but I don't have to take the large side cover off to do it. I have also found out,there's different types of o-rings depending on heat-pressure-movement.
Ed K