band order / testing

hackberry jake · January 30, 2012, 04:41:26 PM

I just got off the phone with menominee saw. I needed to order some blades and couldnt decide which kind I wanted to try, so I ordered 3 simonds, 3 lenox, 2 monkey, and 2 woodmizer. The only bands I have tried so far have been timberwolf 1 1/4 x 3/4 tooth spacing x .45 x 10*. I ordered 7/8 tooth spacing because I now have 20 ponies instead of 13, but have no clue about the hook angle on any of them (shoulda asked I guess). Do you think they'll send 10*?

Chuck White · January 30, 2012, 04:51:12 PM

Jake
I have a feeling they'll send the 10° bands.

The 10° is "more-or-less" a universal or general purpose blade, and since you didn't specify, I think that's what you'll get

Chuck

SeeSaw · January 30, 2012, 06:30:46 PM

You probably will not find a better company that stands by their products and is always out to please their customers than WoodMizer. I have nothing but good things to say about them. They have always come through for me. Although we hate to admit that we make mistakes, It does sound like the blade was installed backwards. I've done it myself not paying attention. Cut like the dickens as soon as I truned it around the right way. Ha ha.

cutterboy · January 30, 2012, 06:35:30 PM

Jake, that should be fun trying and comparing four different blades. I've never run Lenox oe Woodmiser blades, but I have used Simonds and Monkey. I love the Monkey blades, not crazy about Simonds, however, my favorite blades are Cook's super sharp and they are a Simonds blade...so go figure.

tyb525 · January 30, 2012, 06:38:54 PM

Something I've noticed, other blade manufacturers do not specify the hook/tooth degree?? I've only seen WM offer various degrees.

Buck · January 30, 2012, 06:40:09 PM

I've tried all but Cooks. Its a shame. As nice as the folks at Cooks are when I've talked with them I should have tried their blades.

leroy in kansas · January 30, 2012, 07:07:22 PM

Quote from: hackberry jake on January 30, 2012, 04:41:26 PM
I just got off the phone with menominee saw. I needed to order some blades and couldnt decide which kind I wanted to try, so I ordered 3 simonds, 3 lenox, 2 monkey, and 2 woodmizer. The only bands I have tried so far have been timberwolf 1 1/4 x 3/4 tooth spacing x .45 x 10*. I ordered 7/8 tooth spacing because I now have 20 ponies instead of 13, but have no clue about the hook angle on any of them (shoulda asked I guess). Do you think they'll send 10*?

HJ, of course we expect a full report, double blind study of the blade selection. ;D
It will be interesting to hear how this works out for you.
Leroy

hackberry jake · January 30, 2012, 07:22:12 PM

I will for sure let u guys know how it goes. It'll he hard to beat how the timberwolf bands performed tho. It's awesome to have a sponsor like menominee saw. Four different bands from one supplier in one box, and at a good deal as well. I called simonds to order some bands first and the guy on the phone said "I don't know" to all of my questions. Menominee on the other hand knew exactly what I was asking and I was off the phone with the lady in less than 5 min. Awesome.

WDH · January 30, 2012, 10:01:46 PM

Jake,

We will need a full factorial double replicated experiment :D.

NMFP · January 31, 2012, 07:52:15 AM

In general, most companies and individuals feel that 10 degree is a universal hook angle however....I feel differently than most on this subject. Personally, I feel the industry has used too great of a hook angle for years and only keep selling 10 degree as "universal" because thats what they have always done. I saw everything with 4 & 7 degree and do not use anything else. I converted all of my 10 degree bands to 7's and have never had a problem sawing anything. Also, I sharpen anywhere from 70-140 bands per week now and most of my customers want bands sharpened at 4 and 7 because of how well they cut. Some of those customers were hard to change but after they changed, they will never go back to 9 or 10 degree.
I typically use .055 bands that are 4 degree and .045 bands that are 7 and nothing else.
I use the proof that this works for me and for just about all of my customers.
Hope this helps a little

bandmiller2 · January 31, 2012, 07:53:58 AM

Truth be known all of the name brand bands are good,some just a tiny bit better on a particular bandsaw.If someone put an unknown band on your mill you'd be hard pressed to name the brand.Sharp and set is the biggie along with hook angle.I always sharpen to less than 10 degrees.On most grinders as the side of the wheel [that sharpens the face] wears you will get less hook,that is usally a good thing.If you dress the wheel too much you wear it out quickly. Frank C.

ladylake · January 31, 2012, 08:09:25 AM

I think the 10* came from lower powered mills as they pull a bit easyier. Mine get sharpened at 4 or 5* . Steve

NMFP · January 31, 2012, 09:47:36 AM

I remember the days when bands were all soft steel with no hardening. In my experience, they never really broke but wore out extremely fast. If you sharpen a band now past the hardened tip, you are reaching something similar to what was used years ago.
Its funny I say years ago because I am only 31 but... I have been around machinery for about 20 some years so... I can remember the improvements over the years, and in some cases, unimprovements!
NMFP

5quarter · January 31, 2012, 06:58:51 PM

Buck...saving the best for last? ;D ;)

hackberry jake · February 15, 2012, 07:16:21 PM

Just finished off trying out one of each kind of band. I used them all on pecan logs. I only used them until they got dull and were ready to be sharpened for the first time, so longetivity will have to wait. I rate them as follows.

#1.) Monkfers. This band was awesome. It cut the longest. It left almost a planer smooth cut, and was extremely sharp right out of the box.

#2.) Simonds Red Streak. This band cut for a very long time, left a smooth cut, but tracked a little funny on my band wheels.

#3.) Woodmizer Double Hard. This band seemed like it didn't have enough set. It cut great, but took a dive after only a few boards.

#4.) Lenox Woodmaster "C". This band wobbled bad as soon as I engauged the clutch. Maybe it was welded crooked? I only made it about 2' into the log before I backed it out because of noise, sparks, and quality of cut. I have two more to try. If the others are as bad as the first I wouldn't see why anybody would re-order these bands.

Note: Pecan is a very tough and abrasive wood. It really put all these bands to the test. Stay tuned for the second round of testing... Which will probably be on either cedar or bodark / osage orange.

Magicman · February 15, 2012, 07:32:28 PM

I understand what you are doing, but you are only proving to yourself what different bands might do on your sawmill, with your blade tension, blade speed, feed rate, and other variables. You were sawing different logs which is another variable. Butt logs saw differently than second cut, and limbwood has a mind of it's own, especially Pecan.

Other sawyers might have completely different results with their setup. Your example is why we tend to stay with the blades, pitch, and sharpening methods that we regularly use.

ladylake · February 16, 2012, 06:11:53 AM

i'm not afrad to try different blades and came out with the same results as Jake, except I haven't run Monks since I first started and cant remember how they worked. I should give Lenox another try but when I ran them they wouldn't cut as straight as the Simonds but they didn't wobble. Steve

bandmiller2 · February 16, 2012, 06:39:58 AM

Its a tough job to truely evaluate different bands as the results can change with a different log.I think the folks that sell you the bands, their service and attitude has as much to due with satisfaction as the brand. Frank C.

ladylake · February 16, 2012, 06:49:26 AM

I get mine from a local (20 miles) shop where they hammer blades and weld band blades and can choose from Simonds WM and Lenox for the same price, I end up with Simonds, cut straight and take a lot of sharpenings. Steve

dail_h · February 16, 2012, 05:36:34 PM

Have tried 7 degree a coupla times,, and they just dont work as well as 10s on my mill cutting the stuff i cut. mostely dryish poplar,, and hemlock,, with bit of white pine thrown in

hackberry jake · February 26, 2012, 04:11:51 PM

Just tried the second Lenox woodmaster "C" band and this one cut like a hot knife through butter in cedar. I believe the first one was just welded crooked. I appoligize to Lenox for the comments I made earlier.

ladylake · February 27, 2012, 07:19:48 AM

Jake Thanks for the update, I only tried Lennox once about 5 years ago might be time for another box of 10. Steve

hunterbuild · February 27, 2012, 09:16:23 AM

I just put on one of the Cooks blades that was sent for free trial. I'm not sure if it was the super sharp. It cut 18" red oak like butter, and this is with my HF 7+hp mill. I cut some smaller walnut too. I was concerned abut the hp on the mill, but I'm OK with it now, plus it is a gas sipper. I will be cutting alot of pine and will see how it holds up.

ladylake · February 27, 2012, 09:37:33 AM

I think Cooks supersharp would be a good band for low HP mills, the couple I tried seemed like the had less set which would pull easy. Steve

dail_h · February 27, 2012, 10:00:26 PM

Runnin Cooks blades now,, they're not the supersharps,,like them so far. have run all one time,, several thtough first sharpening. I'm cutting crib blocks outta dry poplar, and hemlock framing