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Building a forwarding trailer

Started by Spalted Dog, January 27, 2012, 04:45:00 PM

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Spalted Dog

I am working on my version of a forwarding trailer.

I found a few grapple loaders used but were either too big or too expensive or junk.  I found a venco/venturo service crane in ok shape for a great price.  5000 lb lift @ 5 or 6 ft, I think 1500 at 20'.  Has anyone ever tried one of these on this kind of trailer?  I think it will be slower, but I am sure it will be faster than skidding with my current set up.  I already have the crane and believe that I can convert it to a knuckle boom fairly easily in the future if needed.

I know Ironwood has experience with these, how do you think it would work?  Pointers? Deep cycle or Starter battery.

How important is the 4wd or steering?  I am planning on steering the tongue.

The bed will be about 11-12' load length, I have walking beam axles that I think are rated for at least 6 ton.  The current tires are 12L-15 10 or 12 ply.  Does anyone have a source for 6 lug brakes for ag wheels?

Thanks-

I am working on learning to post pics.






The older I get the less I used to know.

rick f

664 clark skidder
1- 562 husky
1- 254xp husky
1 - 268xp husky
1250 JD farm tractor with skid winch
5040 kubota farm tractor

Ironwood

I built a base to get it higher above the deck of the trailer, AND put two NAPA series 75 batteries in the base along with the HEAVY disconnects to kill all lines while in transport.

Venturos are GREAT cranes and parts are ALOT cheaper than the Autocrane brand.

I would use skidloader tires for puncture resistance. Surge brakes (pretty much failsafe)   




one of my Venturos without a base



 

Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

bill m

What size tractor are you going to pull this with?
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

Spalted Dog

Todd Crow's trailer is impressive.  That is looking very nice, I have been following that one for quite a while.

I do plan on adding Skid loader style tires in the future, I want to add 4wd.  I am on a bit of a budget.

Right now I will be using a Century 3035.  35hp, It weighs about 6000 lbs  now, however I plan on going to something in the 60+ range in the future.  I do have a couple of other larger tractors, but are 2wd, D-17 and JD 4020.  If I need more weight for the timebeing I can add fluid.  I have wheel weights and suitcase weights now.  I do not plan on even thinking of using the Century on hills with this.

BIll M, how much power does your trailer have?  Is it able to push you around?  Do you know what size and rpm they are?
The older I get the less I used to know.

Spalted Dog

How large of a pedestal did you make for yours?  I planned on setting it 3-4' above the deck of the trailer.  That would make the top of the crane around 8'6"  That will be just slightly higher than the ROPS.  I have gone round and round about what kind of outriggers to build.  I was thinking A frame so that the main supports will be as high as possible to the mounting plate.  I do like the fold down style as well especially for width.  I imagine it needs to be very stout.

I am toying with the possibility of using 7-9000 lb drop leg jacks for the "hydraulic cylinder" for the outrigger.  I am concerned about a lot of monkey business setting up  for each stop for logs in the woods.  I only have one outlet onthe back of the tractor that I was going to use for steering.  Bill m how does your trailer hook up to the tractor hydraulics?  Do you have a port that is live all the time that runs your drive system and the crane etc?  If I can hook it into a live system I will just use hyd for outriggers.  I do have a 12v hydraulic pack that I can use for these in case I use my truck to pull occasionally.


There is a pic in my gallery of my tractor but cant seem to get it to post.

The older I get the less I used to know.

EricR

I see your from wisconsin I dont know how far you are from this. bhttp://duluth.craigslist.org/grd/2760072064.html
(sorry if craigslist links are against policy)
I guessing it would need some hoses and repacking some of the cylinders and possibly some pins and bushings but it looks like it would be an excellent base to start off of. 

thecfarm

I will help you out with the picture. Just go to your gallery,choose an album,They are all thumbnail size,click onto whatever picture you want,it will get bigger,go down a little,it say,Insert Image In Post,click onto that, click onto OK and you are done,



 

I like to hit the enter key a few times to drop the picture away from the post.I always preview to see if I like it. If not start over.
Kinda hard to tell the size of your tractor without being there. Does not look like a small one,but not a big one either. Depends on your land too. I would have a hard time with loader and trailer on my land. Trailer would be fine. I do that at times with 4 foot wood,but only haul a cord out without the weight of a loader too. Probaly chains would help too. bill m does alot of want you want to do.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Piston

I'll be interested to see your progress with this.  A forwarding trailer is certainly on my list of "things I want to build"  ...........along with many other things.  :D
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

Spalted Dog

Thanks for the help with the pic!

The tires are 17.5 - 24 rear and 12 - 16.5 fronts if that helps.  No its not tiny tiny, but definietely could use bigger I think it is the heaviest and largest 35 hp I have seen, but its still a 35 hp.  I have snow chains on all 4 paws now in the snow, however I need ice chains if I am going to get more serius.  I do like Bills set up alot.  I have a bit of equipment envy for his set up as well as quite a few others.   There are some very nice outfits large and small on here.

I am trying to not worry about production and just do the job I am asked.  I see and hear what others are producing locally and can't help but try a little.  It is small equipment and just can't do things as fast as the big guys, period.  I think I am coming to grips with it.
The older I get the less I used to know.

thecfarm

HP is in important,but I feel weight is too. Some of the older tractor may only have 30 hp but can haul more on a trailer than my 40 hp NH because they weight more and more even being able to pull out more on a twitch too.
By the way,I forgot to say,I like your winch. Hyd winch?
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Spalted Dog

Thanks,  No PTO.  I have a hyd motor for it if I decide to run that way.  I could have used it the other day as I had a bad hang up and the teeth on the bottom were dug in and couldn't release the tension,  used the reverser.(crescent wrench)

It's an old 10000lb Braden, pulls very hard.  I have 1000/540 rpm pto so its not terribly slow.  It is slower than a Farmi, but with the smaller tractor I would rather lean toward slower and safer.  It will tip the tractor with ease if the tree gets hung.  It will pull most 20+" dbh  tree length. If it gets much bigger I cut  in half or whereever logical and take it in 2 pulls.   I have pulled much larger, but not worth the wear and tear. 

I built it from a lot of info gathered on FF
The older I get the less I used to know.

Spalted Dog

Well I hope the pics come through ok.  The parts need to be cleaned up and painted.  The bogies have a 3" solid rod that will fit inside a 3" heavy wall pipe or larger with bushings.  Either way I will put grease zerks in.




  

  

 
The older I get the less I used to know.

bill m

On your trailer build be careful with the steering on the tongue. It makes the trailer very easy to tip over on even the smallest of hills. I would take 4wd over steering any day. With the size of tractor you have you will have a hard time at times pulling out a load of wood. The 4wd on my trailer is slow but I only use it when I need it, it is not full time.

 
I have 3 remotes on my tractor. 1 set is live and runs the valve bank on the loader. Another set is used for the 4wd.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

Ironwood

"Some assembly required", or as I tell my MIL "it is all money in kit form"  :D.

Check the connections inside the Venturo, and keep a few of the selenoids on hand. If you dont have the schematic (inside the one larger cover) you can have the manual sent to you PDF fom Venturo. They are a good unit, and given your condition you will likely need some electro/hydro experience. I had a custom fitted tarp made for mine to keep it our of the weather. It is better to use it than let it sit, seems to keep things working well. You will wonder what you did before you owned one.

Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Spalted Dog

Thank you for the heads up on the steering.  I have seen a few videos of these and it looked a bit fishy.  I think I will do it, but like you said be careful.  I want to do the 4wd, but haven't found tires that will work with the rims I have.  I think that I may have to do wheels too.  It may be too much at this time, but will keep looking.  Does your trailer have brakes as well, or do you use the motors to brake?  How does your drive engage the tires and does it stay in contact with the tires all the time?  If it does do you have to leave the lever in the float position?  Any idea of the Rpm, torque, flow?

The crane isn't in as bad of shape as it look in the pic.  The rotation motor is fried, just got it back this week, other than that and 3 wires and 1 fitting she should be ready to give a better test.  I have tested what I can and all appears to work.  The fellow I bought it from said he used it for a while with a drill after he fried the rotation motor, the rest worked ok.  We will see.

Thank you all for your input!

The older I get the less I used to know.

Ironwood

I thought something was missing in the one pic. I didnt want to speak up and be incorrect.

Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

bill m

No, I do not have brakes on my trailer. I just use the 4wd as brakes when loaded going down steep hills. The drive does not engage the tires all the time. I have no idea what the rpm or torque is. The hydraulics on my tractor put out about 12 gal. per min.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

Spalted Dog

Well,  got most of the parts in for the trailer.  I decided to run 12,000 lb drop leg jacks for the outriggers.  Snatch block, hitch and "grapple" (Dixie lifting tongs)  fixed the fitting on the crane.  Need to flush the rotation gearbox and fill, replace wires and put new motor on and it will be ready for a test fire.

I am not expecting to set the world on fire with speed, but I think that it will work until I see how the demand is.  I know there have been a couple of jobs I could have used this for in the last couple of weeks.  I have a couple of larger jobs coming up that I will need it for, slow or not.

I hope to order steel today.
The older I get the less I used to know.

Spalted Dog

I have been able to work a bit on the trailer.  I have the axles under it with the sliding trunion. The bunks are mostly done, and the uprights are tacked together as well as the stop.  The tongue and hitch are almost done.

I have most of the outrigger parts cut.  I have to build the crane pedastal.

I have pics in my gallery and they are not coming up for some reason.  I click on add photo to post and it will not open any file to get the pics.  I am sorry, I will work on it.
The older I get the less I used to know.

thecfarm

Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Spalted Dog

The older I get the less I used to know.

Spalted Dog

The older I get the less I used to know.

BOBWOOD

Hi all...I was just wondering about the approximate price and availability for those mini service truck cranes...I think those are awesome and would be ideal for mounting on my (regular road) trailer...Again, I'm up north and kinda isolated here...so I don't see much stuff locally and it's all way overpriced...BOB

Ironwood

Electric service cranes locally here fetch 1500-3000 used in good/great shape. That would be a fairly complete functioning unit (left right swivwl, hydraulic up/down, and winch) I have had several here that I sold. I do have a more simple unit, no winch, but electro/hydrualic up/down and swivel. It looks like about a 2500# lift capacity, I would like $750 for it. . Many of the ones I have had were 2500-3200 capacity.

Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Spalted Dog

 

  

  

 

She's Alive! 

The crane had a lot more issues than expected once I looked close.  All rebuilt motors, all new solenoids, wires.  Luckily the mechanicals seem to be ok.  I have a couple of hyd leaks to fix, but all in all it functions ok.

I brought in 6-7 loads of walnut culls with about a mile commute there were no issues with the trailer.  There were a few bugs to deal with in the crane, but were minor.  I still need to clean up and paint once I am done with testing and I am building a brush guard for the head  and a cover to keep the rain off.

The tractor seems to handle a load ok.  It could use a bit more power, but in the working gears it handles fine.  It pulls a full load better than skidding some larger logs and will be faster than skidding alone.  I have timed it a few times, but there are so many vaiables, If the logs are in a field and a bit spread out it takes about an hour to fill and about 1/2 hour to unload.  Not bad considering all the extra handling skidding and piling with a grapple, not great considering a knuckle boom would probably take 1/4 of that.  I am not usually in a huge rush anyway.  My business is built off being careful.

To move from one pile to another I raise the 3 pt and drive to the next batch.  The jacks are spring loaded so it is pull a pin and let them come up.  I can crank them all the way up by hand.  The crane cradle swings out of the way so that you can load higher.

All in all I am happy with it. I don't have anywhere near what a new one would be and I think it will work great for what I am doing.  I did design it so that Ican put another hydraulic crane on it in the future if I find the right one.  I will have to cut some. but there will be room.
The older I get the less I used to know.

thecfarm

It's alive and looking good. I'm glad it all worked out for you. It does look useful and than some.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

DeerMeadowFarm

Looks good to me and it works as you hoped, sounds like a win!

Ironwood

Looks GREAT, nice job, and considering you did complain about the selenoids and wiring you must be a pretty good mechanic, it is TIGHT inside those compartments. I alway cuss a few times trying to get it all hooked back up.
Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

treefarmer87

1994 Ford L9000
2004 Tigercat 718
1998 Barko 225
1999 John Deere 748G
FEC 1550 slasher
CTR 314 Delimber
Sthil 461
Sthil 250

Spalted Dog

Thanks guys,

I picked up 3 more loads yesterday.  Its starting to look like a processor build will be in order sometime in my future.  I figure about 12 cord of firewood that was just in 2 fields,  there are about 130 tops still in the woods as well as another landing in the woods, not to mention all the dead oak, elm, and others.

There is some pretty nice stuff in the pile.  I sure wish I had a sawmill.

I have turned a few wrenches over the years.  I have a unique and diverse work history.

So many projects and so little money.
The older I get the less I used to know.

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