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Author Topic: Taping red maples?  (Read 3035 times)

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Offline logman81

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Taping red maples?
« on: January 18, 2012, 09:27:09 am »
Hey guys I have a land owner that has some red maple that is still growing and he is thinking about taping them for maple syrup. He wants to know if by taping them will reduce the value if he wanted to sell them as saw logs later on. I would think that it would but I'm not sure.
Precision Firewood & Logging

Offline Brokermike

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Re: Taping red maples?
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2012, 10:02:11 am »
Yes it will. The butt logs will essentially turn into pallet logs, or firewood, unless you have a niche market for "tap hole" maple that people use for furniture.

However if he intends to sell the sap or make a large quantity of syrup he might find the value of the syrup and sap far exceeds the value of selling a crappy red maple sawlog anyway. At least that what I figured out. I make about $25 per tree per year, and the logs I would have harvested would have been lousy anyway
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Offline Autocar

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Re: Taping red maples?
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2012, 10:02:55 am »
Yep it sure will affect the logs, when a fellow cuts a maple thats been taped it will look like a star in the wood and dark spots from the drilling and will travel the whole butt log. If we had a quarter everytime we sawed into a tin plated maple spout. Tin plated spouts won't make a blue stain. But even if he's careful about getting the tapes remove it will definartely affect the price. Is red maple a good tree to tap ? I always see hard [ sugar ] maples with tap stain.
Bill

Offline thecfarm

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Re: Taping red maples?
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2012, 10:42:14 am »
I think red maple takes more and has a different taste to it.
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Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Taping red maples?
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2012, 10:44:21 am »
Probably not a different taste versus sugar maple. Yellow birch tastes different because it's a different sugar, fructose, like molasses.

And yes it will affect the logs and the veneer buyers in our markets always turned down tapped trees because of stain streaks and the holes. They only heal on the outside with new growth to close over the hole

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
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Offline thecfarm

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Re: Taping red maples?
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2012, 10:47:10 am »
I went to a small class the state of Maine was putting on with red maple. Had samples and than we walked the woods.
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Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Taping red maples?
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2012, 11:00:20 am »
Must be some non volatile substances that make the difference then. Take yellow birch, the mint flavour that you get when tasting a green stick is gone when you boil the sap, it vaporizes out of the syrup. It's a volatile oil.

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline Jeff

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Re: Taping red maples?
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2012, 11:06:37 am »
With Red Maple, I think you need to look at what the taps do to the butt logs in a different way. You are not devaluing them, you are enhancing them. I've seen several examples of "Tap Hole" maple furniture and its spectacular.
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Offline logman81

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Re: Taping red maples?
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2012, 11:18:59 am »
Thanks guys for your help, I was pretty sure that it wouldn't be a good idea if he was going sell the trees later on for logs. I will let him know. :)
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Offline Jeff

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Re: Taping red maples?
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2012, 11:22:31 am »
I again say that's not so.  Red Maple markets many times are limited. Google Maple Tap furniture and look at what you find. In Soft Maple (red) you will not only have the tap holes, you usually get the streaking like you would with the ambrosia beetle. Those logs, when properly marketed will be of increased value.

WhenI was working at the big mill, when ever we came across maple with tap holes with stain, we sorted it out for a customer that paid twice what the going rate for maple would be.
Just call me the midget doctor.
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Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Taping red maples?
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2012, 11:35:59 am »
It's a niche market, and although you may increase value, you need that market to get the value.  I've seen lots of birdseye turned down by buyers because it wasn't just right to their eye. On one lot we sent load after load to the pulp mill because the heart was more than 1/3 and the eyes didn't go deep enough.

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline logman81

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Re: Taping red maples?
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2012, 11:41:35 am »
I agree that in some instances it may have a higher value but it is a limited market and I don't think their is a market around here for it.
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Offline Autocar

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Re: Taping red maples?
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2012, 11:41:48 am »
Nitch market for sure ,but that dose make sence about the beauty. We were cutting hardmaple in Michigan for a company that built bowling lanes for the Asian market and they totaly rejected tapped logs.
Bill

Offline chevytaHOE5674

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Re: Taping red maples?
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2012, 12:08:36 pm »
If I know a tree has been tapped I won't buy it, too much risk of metal and such in it. The market for tap stained wood is very limited and localized, because here Tapped wood is good for the wood stove....

Offline John Mc

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Re: Taping red maples?
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2012, 01:43:04 pm »
Red Maple makes good syrup... basically the same taste as Sugar Maple. It does take more sap from Red per gallon of syrup.

I agree with those who say you'll make more from sugaring than from an uptapped sawlog - especially if you are just looking at cash costs/value, and not counting your labor in making the syrup.

Around here, there is not much market for Red Maple logs anyway. There is a market for Tap-hole maple: for furniture, as well as for flooring (not to mention the guys who make some nice "character" cutting boars out of it). It's definitely a niche market, but it's a fairly popular niche... of course Vermont identifies itself heavily with Maple syrup, so maybe folks are more into having tap-stain flooring??
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Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Taping red maples?
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2012, 01:50:56 pm »
It must be a regional thing to, because I've never seen tap hole wood used in anything around here. If it's burl or figured, yup darn sure you'll find it used. But, no demand for the tap holes. And NB is one of the biggest maple syrup producers on the continent. I know two operations alone that tap several hundred acres each, actually around 3000-5000 acres. One of those big operations uses firewood exclusively to boil. ;)

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline Burlkraft

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Re: Taping red maples?
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2012, 04:33:04 pm »
I again say that's not so.  Red Maple markets many times are limited. Google Maple Tap furniture and look at what you find. In Soft Maple (red) you will not only have the tap holes, you usually get the streaking like you would with the ambrosia beetle. Those logs, when properly marketed will be of increased value.

WhenI was working at the big mill, when ever we came across maple with tap holes with stain, we sorted it out for a customer that paid twice what the going rate for maple would be.

I got summa those logs lying in my yard right now.
I got 'em from Corley5 and they look just like ambrosia beetle trees  ;D
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Offline John Mc

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Re: Taping red maples?
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2012, 04:37:03 pm »
As far as the market for tap-hole/tap stain maple, Vermont is a bit weird that way. There are lots of people here who are into anything "Vermonty"

For a tiny state with a population smaller than a good-sized city (about 625,000 in the 2010 census), it amazes me that we put out as much syrup as we do -- 1.14 million gallons in 2011, just about double the next highest state in the US (New York). I'm sure our syrup production is dwarfed by several of the Canadian provinces, however (If I recall, Canada accounts for about 85% of the world's maple syrup production.)
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Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Taping red maples?
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2012, 04:50:31 pm »
I had one maple board I picked up this fall that has an old tap hole at the end of the board and to one side, it was kinda almost cut out when sawing. But anyway it didn't affect the select grading. But that area was all brown stained and in the hole was nearly blackened. The old galvanized spiles were better for the tree as I recall, the aluminum ones reacted like copper and killed cells nearby.

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline John Mc

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Re: Taping red maples?
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2012, 06:41:59 pm »
Lots of folks are using plastic ones around here now. A friend also tried a new design last year with what looks like a check valve in it. Supposedly, this helps cut down on the bacteria pulled back into the hole when the sap retreats at night.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow