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Bar oil vs. used motor oil

Started by Lambee10, January 16, 2012, 01:14:58 PM

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Spike60

With the price of bar oil these days, I think we'll be seeing more of this. I have a couple customers that are running used oil and knowing their situations, I don't even bring it up.

But I would never recommend it. There is the chance that some of you have already mentioned for oil pump issues. But what is more certain is shorter bar life. Much of the oil today is 5/30. That's even thinner than winter weight bar oil, so an awful lot of it is flying off the end of the bar. But if you do the math, you're probably saving way more on bar oil than you would be spending buying bars.  :-\
Husqvarna-Jonsered
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Al_Smith

I've used 30wt ,gear lube ,even ATF when is was cold as a well diggers butt but never black oil .I did have an old oak deck trailer once I used gob black oil on about every two three years to preserve it .Other than that it gets burnt like I said in my buddys black oil heater .Lot of BTU's in a gallon of crankcase oil .Besides it's free .

mrcaptainbob

I used black engine oil for a few years, too. Went through FAR more bars and chains. Here's what changed my mind.... A friend let me use some oil from TSC. YIKES! What an improvement in cutting! It was immediately noticeable. And the chains last VERY much longer! I am a convert back to bar oil.

NCFarmboy

Quote from: beenthere on January 17, 2012, 02:53:28 PM
QuoteMay try it to see how it works.

If you do try it, then what will you be looking for to "see if it works" ?  Heat in the bar?
Over the long term, what might be the indicators that it does or doesn't work?
Bar heat, chain stretch/life retention on chain/bar is what I would be looking for.  Even straight hyd, oil should work.  Canola cooling oil is used for bar oil and I've read it works just as good as bar oil.
Shep
Lots & Lots of Saws

gspren

Using engine oil, new or used, was ok years ago when the oil was thicker and the saws slower but with todays oils having very little tackiness and the saw speed singing I will stick to bar oil.
Stihl 041, 044 & 261, Kubota 400 RTV, Kubota BX 2670, Ferris Zero turn

pineywoods

I use reclaimed hydraulic oil for bar and chain lube. Have also used second-hand motor oil. The problem with both is it's not sticky, slings off the end of the bar, so the bottom of the bar gets little or no lube. If you add a qt of stp to 5 gallons of oil, solves that problem. Works good and I have seen no ill effects..
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

smalldog

Some people localy have been using this bar lube because it's $2 cheaper a gallon. It comes out black like drain oil and is sometimes lumpy. I have seen that it leaves a tar substance in the tank of the saw and plugs the filter. The tar stuff is tough to clean out of the tank too. I don't know if it was a bad batch or if is all like that. Brand is "Chain Pro"

http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/439661-bar_and_chain_oil.html?lref=%2fcatalog%2ffind.aspx%3ft%3dbar%2boil
Hang in there body...just a little further to go.

John Mc

Quote from: old 030 on January 17, 2012, 06:18:48 PM
used oil is corosive to magneseum cases, i've seen it happen, but this was straight, unfiltered used oil, just my 2 cents worth ::)

Not surprising, since some of the byproducts of combustion are corrosive, and some of them end up in the engine oil.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

trapper

John Mc  looks like the same cheaper stuff sold By fleet farm and menards..  Used it once and did not like the residue in the bottom of the jug.  Thinking it wood do the same in my oiler resivour.  Didnt like the smell either. 
stihl ms241cm ms261cm  echo 310 400 suzuki  log arch made by stepson several logrite tools woodmizer LT30

Al_Smith

TSC stuff is allright .I used it for years .Then Stihl for about a year was cheaper which is surprising because anything that says Stihl is pricey  .

Got the hot set up now ,free .Tom the tree guys brother in law works in a repacking plant  and they can have all the leakers .Not bad stuff ,comes in a 2.5 gallon jug which I dump into an Era 1 gallon jug which has a tap valve on the bottom .Nice and tidy.Oil in the saw not all over my leg .Neatest thing since sliced bread or beer in a can .

OneWithWood

When I was first starting out with a chainsaw I used reclaimed engine oil (heated and filtered as suggested in a Mother Earth News Article).  After premature bar failure from excess heat and chains stretching way too soon I started using regular bar oil.  What a difference  :o
Used motor oil just will not stick to the bar and chain the way bar oil does.  In my opinion it is a false savings to use old motor oil given the price of bars and chain.
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

snowshoveler

I run the service department in a pretty busy saw shop.
If a saw comes in with used oil in the crankcase, the warranty is gone.
Most mechanics wont even work on them. I will try to help if I can.
I know that most people running the used oil are not doing it by choice.
They just don't have the money for the proper chain oil.
In my opinion the worst part of the used oil is there is a fog of oil all over the saw.
Imagine how much of that you are breathing in.

  Chris   
International T5 dozer
JD M tractor
MF skidloader
Jonsered chainmill
Vintage Belsaw

sawguy21

He could buy a lot of chain oil for the price of the bar and chain plus down time. I am a firm believer in using quality lubricants in anything I run.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

SwampDonkey

The research has already been done on bar oil versus trying to recycle used oil or other stuff. I'll stick to the bar oil and I'll still not wear out these saws I have now from use. They'll probably get ruined for not being used much.  ::)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

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2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Al_Smith

It doesn't make any difference if it's a chainsaw,an auto engine or a machine tool .The lubrication of same is its' life blood .

I mean you can save a lot of money not changing the oil in your car too but you might wring the engine at 35,000 miles .

John Mc

AMEN!

There may be fully effective, and less expensive substitutes to bar oil, but used motor oil is not something I'll be using in my saws.

If I was stuck and need to get out a blocked driveway in an emergency? Sure, but not for normal use.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Al_Smith

I've heard the arguments from supposedly operaters on the west coast that had a fleet of 200 saws to maintain etc .Now maybe so maybe not but remember this is the internet and anything can be said .

Never the less the debate was that the savings in premature failure of bars chains etc was more than off set by the savings in oil by using black oil .I question first of all the 200 saws plus the rest of the statement .

My self perhaps being naive about west coasters would certainly think though that an operation that large if it did exist would certainly have a better maintainance program  than that .

The whole idea to me regarding cheap or free oil in a fleet of high dollar pro grade saws would be akin to a farmer in these parts using cheap oil in a 200 thousand dollar John-Deere combine .They just don't do it  period .

Lambee10

Well...I started this thread and did not check on it until today.  Wow.  I did not realize it would get this good a discussion going.  I think looking over the forty some different views that it was pretty even until about half way and using good lubricant in good equipment wins over.

I like my Stihl and have had it for about 16 years.  No need to change now and I will go get more bar oil for the weekend and take the used oil to Auto Zone to recycle.

thanks for the insight!
All animals like me...at feeding time.

M-14 Belsaw and the toys to go with it.

joe_indi

Oil out of the 1st oil change of engines contain a lot of metal which is abrasive.
The carbon in used oils also is abrasive.
Oil pumps wear out real fast.
The oil seals too wear out.Once this happens the results from oil intrusion into the crankcase is not good for the saw.
A safer alternative here is any cheap vegetable oil mixed with 10 to 25% SAE 140 Gear oil (differential oil) and 2% kerosene or diesel.
The gear oil contributes its anti-fling properties to the cocktail. The kerosene/diesel helps to prevent resin buildup on the chain and bar.

lumberjack48

Quote from: Lambee10 on January 20, 2012, 12:42:17 PM
Well...I started this thread and did not check on it until today.  Wow.  I did not realize it would get this good a discussion going.  I think looking over the forty some different views that it was pretty even until about half way and using good lubricant in good equipment wins over.

I like my Stihl and have had it for about 16 years.  No need to change now and I will go get more bar oil for the weekend and take the used oil to Auto Zone to recycle.

thanks for the insight!

lambee10 what got this heated up was my thread on using all my used motor oil [ I knew it would ]

Over my 30 yrs of running saw, yes i used all my used oil. When i ran out of that i used hyd oil that i could buy at that time for $2. a gal. I had up to 6 saws running at a time, over all the yrs i never replace a oil pump. If i would have run in to any problems, i would have never continued using it.
Over the yrs i can't say i didn't buy a jug of chain oil. I was at K-Mart one night, they had a special on chain oil, i can't remember the price but it must have been cheap to get my attention [ Right   :o]. It was in 2 1/2 gal. jugs, they had 30 left, i bought-em all.

Back in the 60's when we were using #90 or 140 mixed with #1 fuel oil on solid nose bars, we ran in to excessive ware on chain rivets, the oil wasn't getting in to them.
 


Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

tcrew

Quote from: John Mc on January 20, 2012, 08:50:49 AM
AMEN!

There may be fully effective, and less expensive substitutes to bar oil, but used motor oil is not something I'll be using in my saws.

If I was stuck and need to get out a blocked driveway in an emergency? Sure, but not for normal use.
I 2nd that AMEN. I dont get equipment for free,so it pays to use the recommended lubes in all my equipment,both in less break downs and in trade in/resale at the end of the day. Just my opinion and the way i run everything i own. Stuff just costs 2 much $ these days to gamble on less than recommended oils/lubes. And im pretty sure if given the choice for the same $, most here would choose the recommended lube over the used oil. Not 2 say that i never used 30# oil back many years ago once or twice would be a lie. But we all try this and that,then we find whats best.
038av super, MS280, MS250,Kubota/loader, Vermeer M50-H Trencher/backhoe ,Case 1150C TrackLoader,3point 25ton wood-spliter

John Mc

I haven't been using chainsaws all that long, but I have to wonder if folks are comparing what they used "back in the day" to what works on new saws, there could be quite a difference in the construction of the oilers. Perhaps the older ones could handle more crud without choking on it?
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Ianab

They certainly poured out more oil, and probably weren't built to the tight tolerances that they are on modern saws.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

DebarKing

Thank you guys for all of the great info. Some know I just dropped a decent wad of cash into my 362 recently. I had never thought of using old motor oil, hyd. fluid, etc, but I'm glad I got the chance to read this! I'm just one guy, and the cost of clean bar oil is far less than that of replacing bars and chains for one saw, let alone those of a huge logging outfit.
Nick

Stihl MS 362
Stihl FS 55 Trimmer
Stihl 036 Pro Saw
Stihl MS 660 Magnum (Work Saw)
One MEAN Dodge Dakota

lumberjack48

This is why the saws have a filter in the oil tank, so that nothing can get to the oiler pump to ruin it. You could put a hand full of sand in the tank, all it would do is plug the filter. Then you rinse it out with gas, put a new filter on and your back in business. I've had filters plug up with saw dust and wood chips because the help never cleaned the debris way when filing. The last saws i used were, 272, 266, 024, 038, 2, 044's and a 034, this is the last bunch of saws we had in 96.

Quote from: DebarKing on January 28, 2012, 03:04:55 PM
Thank you guys for all of the great info. Some know I just dropped a decent wad of cash into my 362 recently. I had never thought of using old motor oil, hyd. fluid, etc, but I'm glad I got the chance to read this! I'm just one guy, and the cost of clean bar oil is far less than that of replacing bars and chains for one saw, let alone those of a huge logging outfit.

I am a professional chain saw operator, again if i would have had excessive chain ware or bar failure i would have never used it. If you knew me you'd know how fussie I'm about everything, i kept my equipment in A1 shape, thats how i made my living.
I'm getting a feeling like I'm getting step on like i didn't now what i was doing.  >:( >:(
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

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