gearmatic 19 free spool ?

[rick f]

I'll try this for the 3rd time.
My winch seams to have spells when freespooling. When you release the winch it may or may not free spool or stop free spooling any time in between. It just does this when pulling out by hand.

Any ideas what it could be?

I have new cups coming for the control unit.
When I had the side cover off i did notice that there is no roll pin in the brake band release plunger, could this be part of the problem?

Thanks , Rick

[rick f]

 

 



It's part #11 going through part #14

[HiTech]

I just bought a manual on the Gearmatic 19 and 119 on ebay. I saw there were others on there for sale. I have had problems with my 119, sort of like yours. Hopefully the manual will give me the answer. I figured $30 for it was a good investment.

[Ed_K]

On mine,Idrilled it out to the next size rollpin.But I found the clutch adjustment was more the problem.There's a set screw on top of the winch that puts pressure on the outside of the brakeband,it may be to tight also.

[rfm7fxfox]

Have the same winch with the same problem, We replaced the brake bands and rebuilt the master control unit, try loosening up the set screw on top that puts pressure on the brake band, also try bleeding the master control unit a few extra times even try back bleeding it if you can from the winch through to the master control. What ive found that seems to work is if i spool in real quick then release the winch to free spool it free spools no problem every time.. I dont know what it is and we have rebuilt everything other than replacing the bearings in the winch maybe thats next.. Also bad brake lines can cause your problem too, do you use ATF or brake fluid in the resevoir? On the panel inside the cab that says whats fluids go where it says you can use ATF or DOT 3 but one or the other, I know this sounds stupid but if you had ATF in it and accidently topped it off with DOT 3 that can cause your problem as well..

Also I noticed when the temperature was very cold it diddnt like to freespool either, Last week we took the gear side cover off and noticed the gear lube was icing up from moisture/water leaking in due to bad gasket so we cleaned it all up real good and replaced with new 80-90 gear lube sealed the cover up and so far we've had good luck with it.

Good luck and let us know what you find.

[rfm7fxfox]

BTW you can find the manual for that winch online for free, Its a PDF file just download it and print it up, better then spending $$ on it IMO. I dont remember the web adress if i find it ill post it but just search in google for Gearmatic Model 19 Service Manual Or CAN CAR model 20, same winch..

[Stephen Alford]

  Hey Rick , I sure can relate to your frustration. There is nothing that wants to make you jump up on a stump and do a jig with the devil like a winch that will not freespool.  Well maybe that drive over your new saw thingie  :-\ . I am not a mechanic  and to honest I have not had to take my ol can/car 20 apart  very many times. But FWIW  the plunger in the master cylinder in the cab has a needle size hole that lets the oil by. Because of its small and I mean small size it can be a source of grief. The last time I had to borrow a hand drill to open it. If you can't see it take a picture with your digital camera then zoom in on the picture and you will see it. Out of necessity I had to put hydraulic hose to the winch and that may be some of my problem. To get mine to freespool I put the clutch in, transfercase in neutral, pump lever down, then pull up , rats tail drops to the ground by itself and freespool she does. There are lots of folks on here that have far more knowledge of these than I and maybe this will just give you something to read till they show up.   ;D  Goodluck.

[rick f]

Thanks guys for all the tips. I'll be taken it apart real soon. I'll post what I find out.

I have nothing under the set screw on top of the winch.

It worked nice all day yesterday, so who knows.


Thanks again, Rick

[lumberjack48]

I've used and worked on Gearmatic's  some 28 yrs, i can't count how many times i've had one apart.

This is a sore spot with Gearmatic, you ether can't pull it out or it free spools.

I have to tell you i was happy when i got mine to free spool,  8)  i ran all the cable out every hitch, much easier then pulling my guts out pulling cable.
On the landing or where i needed to i controlled the amount of cable out with the handle.

The lines going to the winch should be steel lines, expect for the little 8" line down where it osculates, this is a special high pressure line. 

Every time i tried tightening something or doing something to the winch to get it to stop free wheeling i was dragging on it again.
You can tighten the brake band up a little, it will work fine, but then the next day you can't get it out, the shoes shrink and expand all depends on the weather.

The wife wanted it to free spool, she used one about 10 yrs. After i got hurt she all so worked on it.

[HiTech]

Not sure if it applies but if the winch is not level that will effect the free spooling. Loosen the mounting bolts to make sure it sits level on the frame. Must be when you tighten the bolts up it distorts the winch housing if it is not level. How anything that can pull so much and take abuse everyday can be effected by something little. Water and sitting for long periods are bad for them.

[rick f]

Thanks for the replys.
The other day I started working and the winch control handle would start winching in then the handle would lose pressure. My first thought was check the fluid it was down, ok filled it. Still no diffrence, ok I pulled the side of the winch off to make sure it wasn't inside, all was good inside. Next I said frig it time to rebuild the control unit, done that. Refilled the system tryed to bleed it still the same, losing pressure, finally saw it leaking were the small tube goes to the rotary joint , it was just finger tight. Tighted that and i saw where the rotary joint is dripping when you throw the winch in gear. I'll get a new one soon , but will watch the fluid level for now.
I'm thinking now that I will change the lines to the winch to steel and see if that will make a diffrence on the free spooling. As it is now when I put it in free spool, pull on the cable it will pull hard then easy then hard , almost like it makes a diffrence where the drum is in it's rotation.
When I have time I'm going to ajust the cluch bands so they are alittle looser and try that.

again thanks for the help.

PS ED do you have any pictures of the way you did your rotary valve with the pipe?


Rick

[DDDfarmer]

Hey there,  I had a problem with free spooling.  Took all the clutch assembly out as cleaned as it was gummed up and seized with rust and old grease.  I fought with with the free spooling for too long and finally did the job right.  Take the assembly apart and set up properly as per the book. 

After doing the job correctly the winch worked perfectly just as it should.

I should say it did work perfectly.

Pulling a heavy twitch the other day, I couldn't drive the load around one corner of the trail.  So I let the cable out to use the winch, was working fine till I sundenly lost controller pressure.  No leak visible but the old was going somewhere.  Opened up the case to find this,  buckled the rod that was used to replace the adjuster bolt.  I knew that it should have been replaced when I found it but figured it lasted this long would last a few more months. 

Kicking myself now, going to cost me quite a bit now plus the two weeks downtime.

[DDDfarmer]

Hey folks,  was able to fix up the pics.  Was able to place in my gallery just working on placing in the post now...  :

[thecfarm]

Need to make a link so other can view your album,if you want too. I think it's in profile.
The hard part is done.Click onto your album,pictures are thumbnail,click onto whatever picture you want to post,it will get big,scroll down,you will see Insert Image In Post,click onto that,click OK and that's it. preview it to make sure you like it. I like to hit the enter key a few times to get the text away from the pictures and if you are posting 2 pictures at a time.



 

Welcome to the forum too.

[mad murdock]

Welcome aboard the forestry forum DDDfarmer. What kind of skidder you running your gearmatic winch on? (TJ, TF, Franklin,?) inquiring minds you know.

[DDDfarmer]

Hey there, I have been reading this forum and learning for the last year or so.  Skidder I have is an old Abitibi treefarmer C5C, 353 detroit screamer.....



  



 

Here are the pics of my winch at the moment.



  

  

[lumberjack48]

I had a C5 identical to that one, it was one of a fleet sold out of Canada.

Thats a first for me, i have never seen them bend before.  Now i sound like a saw dealer.

[DDDfarmer]

That pushrod was not original. looks like a bolt cut down to size.  by the book that should be an adjustable 3 piece bolt.

[lumberjack48]

I thought something wasn't right, your supposed be able to adjust the movement. Thats an easy fix.

[Ed_K]

Wish I'd read up this thread yesterday as I had the sidecover and liveswivel off today.Lost pressure to the clutch,the o-rings wore out in the swivel.I took the cover off to re-adjust the primary clutch band.the swivel was an easy fix,took the screw out of the side and caught the 11 ballbearings,then slipped the swivel apart,replaced the o-rings and reassembeled.
On your picture the center plate with four cap screws,I took it off(watch the spacers)drill the center hole the slide 1/4 npt black iron pipe thru,on the center shaft inside I threaded the hole where the original seals went.Threaded the pipe into it and drill a hole thru the outside teardrop cover for the pipe to come thru. Replaced the covers and added the liveswivel and hooked the line to it.works good but you could build some protection over the swivel.

[lumberjack48]

I taped the center plate, so the live swivel screwed into it, then used the tear drop cover with a little modifing. I cut a hole in it and added about 2 inchs, a little cutting and welding.

This was how Treefarmer sales told me to do it.