making plywood

[hackberry jake]

I would like to build a house in the coming years. Probably post and beam. I think one of the biggest expenses will be plywood and I just hate giving box stores my money. I keep pondering in my head how I can make plywood myself. Everything from cutting thin sheets on my mill, drying them, planing them, and glueing them. To glueing shavings from a hand plane together into sheets. Maybe build a homemade veneer slicer or something?  It all seems too labor intensive and time consuming. Anybody ever have the same thoughts?

[123maxbars]

I was actually talking with my father about it last weekend, sounds like a good project and I wonder if it's possible.

[Dan_Shade]

why bother with plywood?

if you have a mill, why not use boards nailed down at a 45 degree angle like the carpenters did prior to the plywood?

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

It's possible or we wouldn't have plywood.

Great idea, hope your thoughts come together. I'd like to see what you come up with.

[Magicman]

The one very important thing that you left out of your plywood ingredients was pressure.

Dan's suggestion was spot on if you want to go back to the "old days".

[tyb525]

I agree with dan, skip the plywood and use real lumber, it can't delaminate ;D

[WDH]

I agree with MM, Dan, and Ty.  If you try to make it yourself, you will need a whackmongus press unless you want to use every cement block in your county!

However, when you consider the cost of the boards and the time and cost to put them down, plywood is a bargain.

[paul case]

why bother with plywood?

if you have a mill, why not use boards nailed down at a 45 degree angle like the carpenters did prior to the plywood?

Thats what I did when we built my house 3 years ago. Time was no issue, but it didn't seem like it took long to me. PC

[jueston]

after all the effort you put into trying to make plywood i think your much better off cutting 4/4 for sheathing and subfloors....

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

.... unless you want to use every cement block in your county!    :D :D :D

[pnyberg]

I'm not up to date on techniques for sheathing and insulating a post and beam structures.  Last I knew, stress-skin panels were the way to go.  I don't think you want to be trying to make those in your workshop either. 

--Peter

[tomsteve]

i've built about 100 houses and out of all of them i was able to build one the old school way, with 3/4" ash for the sub floor and on the walls in place of the plywood, ran at a 45 to the floor joists and to the wall studs. it was a lot of extra work, but the most solid house i ever built.

[captain_crunch]

Plywood is made with special glue heat and pressure so not back yard project. Sheathing at 45 deg makes triangles with studs and anytine you make triangle stronger structure becomes

[terrifictimbersllc]

What about a vacuum press?

[Todd]

then, with all the sawdust we can make particle board!  Sounds like alot of work for enough to sheet the house..I agree going with solid wood, or just buying the plywood.

[Hilltop366]

There is also the method of putting braces in the corners and running the boards horizontal, Braces can be nailed in between the studs, or use strapping let in to studs or you can buy "T" shaped metal braces that fit in a saw kerf, Braces can also be added to interior walls that connect to the exterior walls. Might try the Timber Framing/Log construction section.

[ely]

i am building my entire house without one piece of plywood or sheetrock in it. oops i lied, there is one piece of plywood laying the floor about 14 inches square. i used it to cover the stovepipe hole in the wall last summer... i think my dad shoved it into the stove last week though. ;D

[Magicman]

There were many construction methods that went by the wayside when plywood/OSB became the building material of choice.  Many steel straps, etc. are no longer available.

Addressing the OP's original question, I think that 4/4 lumber and 45° construction is the best and cheapest option.  At least that is what I would do.

[Kansas]

I think the 45 degree would be the way to go as well. But I have wondered about having plywood custom made. Years ago a logger I know of had some specialty plywood made out of a figured log, elm, I believe for his own use. He also put logs in and got paid on how they yielded. Is it possible that there is a veneer mill in your area that would custom make plywood for you? I'm thinking more for interior use. There could be some darned interesting possibilities if you have plenty of high quality logs. I don't know what is possible, or if there are any mills in the country that would do it on a custom basis. I doubt you would save any money for just regular plywood. But still, imagine some birds eye maple plywood, or quilted curly oak. Obviously you wouldn't use that for outside sheathing. But inside, you could have a lot of fun.

[DouginUtah]

I guess there are places in the country that still use plywood. Around here 99% of the houses built use OSB.

OSB is so cheap (7/16 is under $7) that you would be money ahead to sell the lumber you could get from your logs and buy four times as much OSB.

Plywood and OSB have become successful replacements for boards because they are superior in most applications. If they weren't they would not be so widely used.

[Dave VH]

you might find a lumber store that you can trade good rough sawn from your mill for plywood.

[jueston]

Plywood and OSB have become successful replacements for boards because they are superior in most applications. If they weren't they would not be so widely used.

osb is successful at reducing price and meeting the absolute minimum requirements..... that is why it is so widely used....

i was searching for some data on the strength of osb and plywood vs pine, but there are so many veriables i didn't find much to report....

[Ianab]

I agree with the others, just don't use ply.

Older houses (most of which are still standing) never did. My house is ~50 years old, no ply in the construction. Walls are braced with wooden angle braces inside the walls as needed. Outside is clad in wooden weatherboards, floor is sold wood. Walls are 'sheetrock" of some sort, but would have been wooden panelling in an older house.

You might need to get a structural engineer to go over your "old school" plans to satisfy the building inspector who is going to want to see conventional modern construction materials.

The ply and chipboard are used because they are cheaper and faster than messing about with solid timber bracing, cladding and floors etc. That's why they are used now, not because solid timber has any serious problems. But if it's your own wood, and time, this isn't such an issue.

Ian

[jueston]

trying to find a comparison between plywood/osb and wood that isn't published by the plywood/osb funded lab is like trying to get information about capitalism in china..... but with enough research....

off of the University of Massachusetts Amherst site:
http://bct.eco.umass.edu/publications/by-title/choosing-between-oriented-strandboard-and-plywood/
"The National Oak Flooring Association (NOFA) in Memphis recommends either 5/8-inch and thicker plywood, 3/4-inch osb or 1-x6-inch dense, group1 softwood boards installed at a diagonal under hardwood flooring. The NOFA recommendation is based on research conducted by Joe Loferski at Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, VA. In his study, Loferski simulated what happens on a real construction site. He built several full-sized floors out of boards, plywood and osb and weathered them for 5 weeks before installing hardwood flooring. Finished floor systems were cycled in an environmental chamber to simulate the changes that occur in summer and winter months. The study showed that solid boards installed at a diagonal were far and away the best system"

this is specifically about subfloors not external sheathing and roof decking, the majority of the artical is comparing the osb and plywood not wood...

[hackberry jake]

Thanks for all the replies. Where i live I don't have to meet codes... Thankfully. If I did have to have an inspector or an engineer to build my house, I know one of each that wouldn't mind helping me meet the requirements. I believe ill do more research on the 45 degree angle construction. I love overbuilding things. I have only under built two things so far and have been royally disappointed in myself. My only fear is about having a solid hardwood house is fire. Maybe I'll use sweet gum for everything, everybody know that junk won't burn.  ;D

[red oaks lumber]

if you can't give the box store money, give it to your neibor have him buy the plywood for you :D

[WDH]

I have plenty of sweetgum if you need some  .

[Magicman]

I do too, and I hates Sweetgum.   :-\

[WDH]

 :-\ :-\ :-\

[shelbycharger400]

 hackberry jake
my house built in 1960, the subfloor is 1 x 12 pine at 45 deg angle,   then 1 inch thick ,  1 3/4 wide maple.  the floor is supported by joists 12 inches on center but they are 2 x 8's,  house is 28 ft wide, their is a triple 2x6 down the center, every 8 feet their is a verticle 6x6. they are on 6x6 cement triangles.  basement floor was repoured at one point in time, their is 12 inches of concrete .    celing is 6 ft and a few inches to the floor..lol
i have seen where the amish use 1 x 4's, then 1/4 inch gap between,  tar paper , then put down the flooring.

[paul case]

Mine is all oak construction..... Ya think it would burn better than pine or osb ?I doubt it. PC

[tomsteve]

Thanks for all the replies. Where i live I don't have to meet codes... Thankfully. If I did have to have an inspector or an engineer to build my house, I know one of each that wouldn't mind helping me meet the requirements. I believe ill do more research on the 45 degree angle construction. I love overbuilding things. I have only under built two things so far and have been royally disappointed in myself. My only fear is about having a solid hardwood house is fire. Maybe I'll use sweet gum for everything, everybody know that junk won't burn.  ;D

one reason for building codes and inspectors is to stop any building practices that could start a fire. plywood and OSB burn pretty good. with the glue in the construction of both, prolly better than solid wood.  there are thousands of houses across the country that are over 100 years old and havent seen fire. then theres houses built within the last 10 years that have burnt to the ground. i would highly suggest that, even though you may not have codes to go by, talk to the inspector you mention. pick his brain on construction methods to help remove the fire danger. of course, to remove all chance of fire, you could build a cave , but it proly wont be a nice as living in a post and beam house though. 8)

[Ianab]

My only fear is about having a solid hardwood house is fire

By the time the fire takes hold of the solid timber in a house the smoke from the burning couch or TV set has either killed you or driven you out of the house.

After that, it's pretty academic how the fire progresses. If the fire brigade aren't there in a few minutes it's a total loss either way. The hardwood will burn hotter and longer - that's about it.

Like I said, look at how houses were build 50-100 years ago. Especially the ones that are still standing. They have stood the test of time. Copy those techniques.

Ian

[fat olde elf]

Certainly agree with the consensus for using "real" lumber. Only exception for me is the scads of small animals and figures that I do every year for nativity scenes and a Noah's Ark that I sell. UPS,Fedx and USPS have been able to bust the legs off of camels, donkeys, elephants and knock the leaves off of little palm trees. I now glue up 3 layers of ERC (3/16), usually nothing wider than 8", and have solved the breakage problem. Of course I am now buying glue by the gallon. Say your prayers...

[eastberkshirecustoms]

Like I said, look at how houses were build 50-100 years ago. Especially the ones that are still standing. They have stood the test of time. Copy those techniques.
Ian

They may have been built well, but they aren't necessarily warm or air tight. My house was built in the early 1800's. It is constructed with hand-hewed beams,  mortice and tenon joints pinned together, 1-1/4" plank 'sheathing' with clapboard siding. The interior walls are just plaster and lathe, no stud cavities, no insulation whatsoever. It's been an uphill battle to sure up the hand laid stone foundation and to remodel and insulate this beast. The new plan is to knock this 'ol thing down and build an energy efficient house using SIP panels in a few years. It makes more economic sense to start new than to keep renovating and remodeling what is there. My point being that some things are better left in the past.

[schakey]

Our home was built in 1900,no plywood.
There was a thing on the news last week about house fires
and how fast they burn today. The Fire Marshall blames
OBS i-beams,sheeting,and modern furniture for fast burns.

[Ianab]

They may have been built well, but they aren't necessarily warm or air tight.

True, insulation wasn't such a big thing back then.

What I should have said is Adapt those construction techniques, but use more modern insulation techniques.

No reason you can't use underfloor aluminium / foam, in-wall and ceiling space fibreglass, modern building wrap and double glazing etc.  Refitting an 1800s house is certainly a huge job, probably bigger then simply building a new house, but putting that stuff in during construction is not a huge drama or expense.

Ian

[customsawyer]

For what it is worth I burn a lot of sweet gum firewood in my stove. ;D

[jueston]

of course, to remove all chance of fire, you could build a cave , but it proly wont be a nice as living in a post and beam house though. 8)

i have always thought it would be awesome to carve my house into the side of a mountain, not far from my house there is an old sandstone mine that was turned into mushroom farm, and then a speakeasy, and now its a bar and dancehall that gives tours during the day.... 

[shelbycharger400]

jueston... house on the rock out in wisconsin... smells musty..  its built into the rockside.  one of the walls is rock and it was wet.  on the tour, they have dehumidifiers running all the time.    their is a reason why caves are good for making mushrooms and mold/chease.

[reride82]

If you are concerned about fire, why not install a fire supression system. They are fairly simple to design and if you are familiar with pex plumbing, they are easy to install. This is a good manual to get you started:

http://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/publications/fa-155.pdf

I have been looking into fire supression because our county is requiring them on all major subdivision plans that are not located within designated fire districts. A fire supression system helps to keep your family safe, can lower your home owner's insurance, and is a very good idea if you are more than 10 minutes from a fire station. And unlike as Hollywood portrays, a fire sprinkler system doesn't come on as a whole, each sprinkler is triggered by heat and then once the fire is out, the owner turns off the water system. On average a sprinkler system only uses about 350 gallons of water to extinguish a fire, whereas a fire truck on average will put down almost 3,000 gallons to extinguish a fire which can lead to a lot more cleanup after the fire. If I were to build a new house, I would definately look into a fire sprinkler system.  :P

[Hilltop366]

You can get fire rated paint that will slow the spread of fire, also ruff sawn wood will light easier and spread faster.

[jdonovan]

If you are concerned about fire, why not install a fire supression system.

+ a million

I was a firefighter for 10 years. I was called to a total of ZERO fires that were burning on Fire Dept arrival in fully sprinkled buildings. In sprinklered buildings I've seen plenty of fires that were out when we got there.

Sprinklers are amazing tools.

[SwampDonkey]

Reminds me of the tale grand dad told about a neighbor wanting cupboards. Was going to buy a cow, a separator and a churn to make butter for sale. Until her father-in-law told her to forget about all that and just spend the money for the cupboards. ;)