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Author Topic: Post and beam barn design  (Read 3993 times)

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Offline schweizer

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Post and beam barn design
« on: December 29, 2011, 04:18:49 am »
Hello guys,

I am designing a barn that I hope to start building in the next few months.   I wasn't planning on traditional timber framing because I have no experience with it and metal plates will be adequate for a barn.  Here are the sketches and info I just sent to a engineer friend yesterday.   He's supposed to be getting back to me with an cost estimate for engineering stamp of approval.   I'm not trying to start a debate about timber-framing vs. metal plates.    That's why this thread is not on the that part of the forum.  Just seeing if you guys have any suggestions.

(From my "intro" thread you may remember that I have a hand-hewn square-cut log home w/ real mortise/tenon joints and a few scarf joints.)


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These pics will give you an idea of what I'm interested in.   Even if I can get a barn built without getting a permit from the county (ag structure exemption on timberland), I still want to make sure it won't fall down.    The black and white single bent/frame is what I came up with in the past few days.   The more detailed drawing is older, when I was trying to incorporate a 40' shipping container.   The overall look would be like the attached sketch I swiped from the internet, except that the barn plans on the internet were too small or not tall enough for the backhoe, etc.

The goal is about 20' x 40' footprint for the main structure with loft, with a side shed (stalls, chicken coop, etc.) about 12' wide.   The whole barn will be set into the hillside on a solid concrete foundation and 4' high retaining wall of concrete block around the perimeter (4' retaining wall is the highest I can go without more engineering stamps, correct?).     You can chop off 4' from the bottom of the posts on my frame sketch to allow for the retaining wall/foundation. The loft just needs to be about 10' high so I can drive the tractor inside w/ backhoe on it.

I had figured through-bolts or lags on the angled braces and metal (or plywood?) gusset plates at the corners.   The timbers (posts and rafters) are sketched as 6"x6"s, while the transverse girder is drawn as a 6 x 10.  That 6x10 would span just over 15' with the way I've drawn it.   The bents/frames would be 10' OC.
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Thanks!   
Marcus




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Offline mad murdock

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Re: Post and beam barn design
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2011, 11:54:54 am »
Looks like a sturdy barn to me.  Do you have timber on your place from which to mill all your own framing and siding?  I would put lean to sides on both sides if it were me, no such thing as too much covered storage here in rain country IMO. Can't wait to see pics of the real McCoy, from the looks of your other completed projects, it will be first rate.
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Offline Brad_bb

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Re: Post and beam barn design
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2011, 01:50:26 pm »
Although you need to do a real force and stress analysis, just looking at your bent design, it's almost a queenpost bent.  You just need a collar tie to finish it off.  Not to intentionally start a debate, but why not do it in timberframe?  It's no more work.  It will have a better legacy.  It's not that hard to learn.  You could learn enough in an intensive two day workshop like the one Rooster and I put on (We're talking about doing another here over the winter).  I don't like iron/steel interaction with the wood.  Eventually the wood and iron/steel will rot from their interaction with each other.  Oak and iron/steel react due to the acidity of the oak for example.  That is why you see black stain wherever there was iron/steel.  Wood pegs don't react with the frame.
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Offline Radar67

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Re: Post and beam barn design
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2011, 03:12:06 pm »
Have you considered a Gambrel Roof design? I am currently working on a barn 20 foot wide. Don K used my truss design on his shop for more clearance. Here is his build.

 Link
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Offline Red Pill

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Re: Post and beam barn design
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2011, 03:25:12 pm »
Perhaps I'm looking at them wrong, but the first two drawings seem different from the third drawing. That one shows the braces extending to the ground line. Or do the first two show the posts going below the ground line?

Offline schweizer

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Re: Post and beam barn design
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2011, 07:02:06 pm »
The first two drawings are the most recent frame design.   The other one was an earlier design. 

It's all almost moot now:  I met w/ the engineer friend and his colleague today.   It would need at least collar-ties (not a big deal), but the timbers would have to be larger than what I have drawn, and would need quite beefy custom brackets at some points.  If I can't source the timbers from my own land, which I can't, it would be quite expensive with big timbers.   (Our land was logged about 8 years ago, and I bought it from the loggers.)   Both engineers that I talked to today have done both timber barns and pole barns.   

Marcus
Off-grid on 320 acres of timberland, masonry wood stove, thermal mass H2O storage, old D4, Kioti DK45

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Offline LaserZX

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Re: Post and beam barn design file download
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2011, 09:20:57 pm »
I am not receiving the skp file on my download as listed   it shows up   index.php    anyone know why

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Post and beam barn design file download
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2011, 07:49:43 am »
I am not receiving the skp file on my download as listed   it shows up   index.php    anyone know why
I think if you rename it from php to skb or skp then it will open as a sketchup file.
Try it to a copy and see.
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Offline Thehardway

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Re: Post and beam barn design
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2012, 08:17:23 am »
Schwiezer,

When I looked at your frame drawing the first thing that popped into my mind was "cruck frame".  Obviously there are a few pronounced differences but the form is very similar. 

If you can deal with losing a good deal of interior sidewall clearance, a modern Cruck may be just what you need. do a google image search for Cruck frame and you will likely see what I am referring to.   Often you can find crooked or bent trees left behind a logging operation, perhaps you have a few you could hew?  If not I could see this being made in a cruck truss by reversing your post/rafter with your brace so as to form a truss stood on end.   Not sure I explained it well.
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