Black Locust Outdoor Decking Question

Steveo · December 27, 2011, 10:04:50 PM

New member here -

I am trying to choose the decking material for the outdoor deck that I am building (450 SF in Sterling VA). I do not want to use the common PT SYP#2 boards, I want to stay away from the exotic rainforest lumber, and I am not a big fan of composites/plastics. In researching cedar/cypress and a few others, I have come across Black Locust - which seems promising, but there doesn't seem to be alot of info or ready suppliers. Here are a few questions:

1) Does anyone have any comments on how it performs as residential decking. I know that it will last a long time, but I am interested on how much it checks, splinters, warps, etc. Does it look any good in place.
2) I have read that it can be installed green and tight, but am curious if that can lead to problems later as it shrinks. If so, what treatment is best (air dried, kiln dried, or something special).
3) I understand that it does not need treatment, but if I want to hold off the patina grey look as long as possible - does anyone have experience with any product that have performed on this species.
4) If this is a promising material, does anyone know of a supplier within a reasonable distance of Northern Virginia (or DC). Even better, does anyone know of any projects within an hours drive of me so that I could see how it looks itsitu, in person.
5) Any other suggestions on local, sustainable, green options for lumber species would be welcomed.

Thanks
Steve

moosehunter · December 28, 2011, 07:20:59 AM

Welcome to the Forum Steveo,
If you cannot find info or wood locally, shoot me a pm and I will get you the phone # of a guy that cuts and sells Black Locust here in Central NY.
He may be able to help with your questions even if it to far to buy from him.
mh

alanh · January 03, 2012, 03:56:31 PM

I`ve just built a 800 sq ft deck out of black locust, it has been down for a year now. The lumber was milled from trees on my property, stickered and dried for 6 months or so. If you`re interested pm me your email and I can forward some pics and info.

beenthere · January 03, 2012, 05:33:06 PM

Interested, and you can post some pics here. ;)

sandhills · January 03, 2012, 08:41:02 PM

Quote from: beenthere on January 03, 2012, 05:33:06 PM
Interested, and you can post some pics here. ;)

X 2

tyb525 · January 03, 2012, 09:00:20 PM

http://ablacklocustconnection.com/index.htm
http://www.blacklocustlumber.com/
http://blacklocustwood.com/lumber.php

Here are three suppliers that I know of, the first in Mass., the second in PA, and the third in NY. There may be more. Some sawmills may have inventories of black locust in your area.

In my own opinion (and many others) black locust is a wonderful wood. I don't think I would install it green, the boards would pull themselves apart if fastened on both sides. Air dried will be fine, no need for Kiln Dry since it will be outside anyways. It can and will last over 50 years, there have been reports of black locust fence posts nearly 100 years old found in swampy areas.

It is VERY hard. It will need to be planed, or at the least gone over with a sander to make sure there are no splinters. As far as cracking and checking, and warping I don't think it is too bad.

It looks bright yellow/green when fresh cut, then changes to an orange/brown when exposed to sunlight and air. For finishing, I would stay away from spar urethanes. Try "long-oil varnishes" such as Waterlox instead.

The only problem may be finding it in large enough quantities, although checking with some of the specialty mills might prove otherwise.

WDH · January 03, 2012, 09:20:29 PM

alanh,

I am also interested, so post some pics and give us the details on the project!

alanh · January 04, 2012, 10:17:57 AM

O.K. I`ll get to figuring out the pic posting thing.....

alanh · January 04, 2012, 11:34:59 AM

I don`t have access to the pics right now so I`ll post some info until I get them. I didn`t use any finish and hopefully won`t need to as that was one of the goals, the deck is a patina grey look now after a year. The boards were milled at 1-3/8" thick, and I went with 3-1/8 wide as that seemed to give me the best yield from the width of the logs I had. After planing both sides I ended up with a 1" thick board. With that size board I have had no cupping and the "squirrelly" ones were relatively easy to lay strait with a "bow wrench", although i did end up with a couple uneven gaps. I boxed in a 4x4 post with some 1/2" x 5" pieces and they cupped pretty quickly so I`m not sure how wide and thin of a board would be safe. I had plenty of material so I could be selective in what I put down so I haven`t seen any splitting. It must be predrilled , I used the kreg tool where the screws angle thru the sides of the boards, (no face screws) and everything is staying down nice so far. I`ll see if i can get the wife to help post pics tonite.

metalspinner · January 04, 2012, 04:44:58 PM

The outdoor furniture I built for our patio is black locust. The boards died nice and flat in the lumber stacks with no problems of face or end checking, warping, or cupping. Of course, it was still a very heavy board after drying so planing the lumber was a labor of love.

Every hole needed to be pre-drilled. I used stainless fasteners with a square drive. Even after predrilling, the screw needed a bit of lube with a bar of soap so the square drive screw head wouldn't stripout or worse snap off.

The furniture has been in the weather unfinished now for two years with no signs of surface checking, splitting, etc. I enjoy the weathered look so I applyed no finish.

WDH · January 04, 2012, 08:46:12 PM

Alan,

You have to go the the Photo Gallery and create a gallery for yourself to import the pictures into. After that, the JUpload button should allow you to select your picture and it will resize it to Forum specs for you. To get the pic in a post, start the post and hit the add gallery image button at the bottom of the post script window. This will take you to your gallery. Find your pic and click on it to open it up. Below the opened pic is a line where you "click to add picture to post" or some such verbage. Click this and your picture code will now show up in your post. You can hit "Preview" to see the pic in the post.

Magicman · January 05, 2012, 07:50:03 AM

I have a work trailer that I decked with BL about 12 years ago and there are no signs of rot.

If I could find good 16' logs there would definitely be a market for decking.

Al_Smith · January 05, 2012, 09:51:31 AM

There's about three that I can think of best native northern trees that make good weather resistant woods .The best would be osage orange ,second black locust third believe it or not catalpa and also pretty good being white oak .

You have to remember that white oak is what they make barrels out of .Fact in the appalation states they would froe it into roof shingles . The first three where used for fence posts .

alanh · January 05, 2012, 10:03:29 AM

O.K. here goes...

Starting to stack the 65 or so logs I ended up with, a 16 footer was rare, mostly 12`s

The Terrific Timbers operation, i was loader/ offbearer type guy and Dennis sure kept me moving, I slept good...

The stack sat six months or so before I started working off it.

Lots of ripping, planing, routing....

Demo`d the old deck, re-framed and got started putting down decking, then it snowed...a lot

The decking all on...

This pic shows the color change a couple months makes.. it all catches up and evens out.

beenthere · January 05, 2012, 11:12:05 AM

Nice job on the deck, and great on the pics. Thank you.

Phorester · January 05, 2012, 12:21:27 PM

As long as a black locust fence post lasts underground, above ground a black locust deck ought to last longer than the house. ;D

Magicman · January 05, 2012, 01:12:05 PM

Very nice indeed, alanh.

Al_Smith · January 05, 2012, 02:55:05 PM

You know it's funny about fence post,pole building post or power poles .The part below ground lasts forever it seems .Just a few inchs above or below grade is where they rot off .

When they send work crews around to put a preserative paper around utility pole they only go down about a foot below grade .

Nice deck BTW .

WDH · January 05, 2012, 08:56:13 PM

Alanh,

You decking looks great! It is one of a kind for sure. And, now you can post pics, too ;D.

sandhills · January 06, 2012, 12:35:43 AM

Nice job on the pictures and that deck is awesome, just don't let my wife see your pictures ;).

alanh · January 06, 2012, 08:38:31 AM

Thanks for the compliments, and the picture lesson! It`s been a fun (although a tad drawn out) project. I`ve done some inside projects with the locust,seeing as how the stuff is laying around, a bar top , a corner cabinet, a couple inside steps. The grain looks a lot like red oak when you stain and oil it.

Steveo · January 06, 2012, 10:44:17 PM

Thank you all for all of the input.
TYB525 - Thanks for the links
AlanH - Thanks for the photos
This is a great forum - very active and lots of experience around.
I still need to decide between the black locust and the thermo-treated, but at least I have more info - and samples of each on the way. Starting to get excited about swinging the hammer again - (and the wife is tired of looking at the sea of undecked joists.)

Magicman · January 08, 2012, 09:18:16 AM

And keeping the Lady happy is very important.

711ac · January 09, 2012, 09:07:03 PM

Quote from: Steveo on December 27, 2011, 10:04:50 PM
New member here -

I am trying to choose the decking material for the outdoor deck that I am building (450 SF in Sterling VA). I do not want to use the common PT SYP#2 boards, I want to stay away from the exotic rainforest lumber, and I am not a big fan of composites/plastics. In researching cedar/cypress and a few others, I have come across Black Locust - which seems promising, but there doesn't seem to be alot of info or ready suppliers. Here are a few questions:

1) Does anyone have any comments on how it performs as residential decking. I know that it will last a long time, but I am interested on how much it checks, splinters, warps, etc. Does it look any good in place.
2) I have read that it can be installed green and tight, but am curious if that can lead to problems later as it shrinks. If so, what treatment is best (air dried, kiln dried, or something special).
3) I understand that it does not need treatment, but if I want to hold off the patina grey look as long as possible - does anyone have experience with any product that have performed on this species.
4) If this is a promising material, does anyone know of a supplier within a reasonable distance of Northern Virginia (or DC). Even better, does anyone know of any projects within an hours drive of me so that I could see how it looks itsitu, in person.
5) Any other suggestions on local, sustainable, green options for lumber species would be welcomed.

Thanks
Steve

Steveo, a friend of mine has a mill up by Frederick MD, not too far from you and If you give him some time to collect the logs, and he'll cut anything that you want. Locust is pretty wood, I have sanded and finished it for interior trim and the old timers used to use it for the sill of windows and doors. Not sure how to keep it pretty outdoors but Sikkens make some real nice products for siding, not sure about how it would hold up to foot traffic. I'm not sure if he's in the phone book under this name but he goes be "Wood Eye wood products" and his name is Keith

Steveo · January 10, 2012, 12:18:30 AM

Quote from: 711ac on January 09, 2012, 09:07:03 PM
Steveo, a friend of mine has a mill up by Frederick MD, not too far from you and If you give him some time to collect the logs, and he'll cut anything that you want. Locust is pretty wood, I have sanded and finished it for interior trim and the old timers used to use it for the sill of windows and doors. Not sure how to keep it pretty outdoors but Sikkens make some real nice products for siding, not sure about how it would hold up to foot traffic. I'm not sure if he's in the phone book under this name but he goes be "Wood Eye wood products" and his name is Keith

Thanks 711ac - I just looked him up and found his website - he is just across the river from me, less than an hours drive. I will ring him up tomorrow.
Steve