Hiring help

[Taylortractornut]

At work dad has hired alot of folks the last few months and  we have had very little luck at it.     We pay good for the area, Laborers start out at 13.45 and  insurance  and are allowed overtime and  they get raises as new skills are acquired like   B CDL's  you get 1.25 per hour raise.     Dad has hired a few sad stories over the years that  really showed why they were sad stories.        He wanted to hire a mechanic to help  me with the maintenance and break downs.    This guy was  a pretty good mechanic but just the way he acted something was hinky about him,  He ws bragging about  job hopping  before working for the man we contracted some work out to.            I told dad I bet he couldnt pass a drug test.  i sat in the office as the interveiw went on and dad was  telling him about the pay and benefits and all that was expected.  They guy was ready to sign on then dad hit him with the big question.     Can you pass a drug test.     It fell apart from there.   Thats been the recent stories of the last few folks we had stop in.   

I have a friend wanting to hire me and put me through  2 years of diese mechanics at the  community college of my choice if I go to work for them.      Im a fair mechanic  just never did much motor work.   They offered me  a great salary and benfits and a tools plan. I turned him down because I dont really like to mechanic anymore.      I asked why he didnt  just  hire someone that was unemployed and try the job centers.

He says that  most of the new help hes getting are folks that cant pass a drug test, show up for work,3 keep a drivers liscence,  or show up to  the college classes  or the apprenticeships.   

We have a guy at work we hired as contract labor.   He was hired to pick  up blowing rubbish.    Makes 13.45 and 2 miles from his house.   He has started complaining about picking up  debris .     We had to take him off the new tractor because he was too lazy to down shift  and  just ride the clutch.   

This week was too wet for  his outside work and  we put him to sanding the old tractor down and a trailer as part of our winter maintenance plan.   He   started whining about it today. He even claimed one time today that he  if he knew all that was all he had to do he would  probably  find something else to do.  Now we got him to clean out the tracks  on the D5 and he started whining again.    I think he may be like Willie Nelson and on the road again.

[red oaks lumber]

i like to watch possible new hires walk across the parking lot, if they poke along with their hands in their pockets thats the kind of employee they will be. if they come walking at a brisk pace thats the horse i'll put money on.

[Woodwalker]

One thing I've learned over the years is don't be afraid to fire someone.
As it was explained to me "you may do them a favor, give 'em a chance to go get a real job and make something of themselves".
Have a probation period and use it. 

[T Welsh]

Welcome to reality! we go through help like tissue paper,I see all kinds and types and have heard most of the stories. But when the dog does not like a new hire I watch him like a hawk and the dog is a better judge than I am :D Tim

[sparky1]

It is hard to find good help!! I really think alot of it is that the good help is already working!!  I personally try to push my boss to hire kids that just got out of high school so YOU can train them to what you want!  Now this is also seeming to go down hill lately, kids are getting lazzzzyyyy!!  There are a some good ones out there though, dont be afraid to give young ones a shot!!

[Misfit]

And these are all good, red-blooded Americans, right? The kind that pith and moan about immigrants, especially illegals, taking American jobs?
Seems as though the immigrants, illegal or not are the only ones willing to do hard, manual labor anymore. Everyone else has the attitude of "no experience, no education, but I'm willing to start at the top."
Just sayin'........

[red oaks lumber]

welcome to the forum canuck_49   

[Magicman]

I will also Welcome you to the Forestry Forum, Canuck_49.   

[sandhills]

My dad always said that anybody good enough (farm work) had the ambition and brains to make it on their own and weren't looking for jobs.  To a certain degree I think he's right, but everyone has to start out somehow, there are some good workers out there, and I have and still do work a few outside jobs with them.  Some of the best help I've had/worked with were highschool aged kids, getting up every weekend to milk cows at 230 am isn't what anybody wants to do but I only heard one complain and after she worked with my boss the weekend my second daughter was born, she wasn't around anymore.  ;) 

[Misfit]

Thanks for the welcome red oaks and Magicman. I kind of regretted my first post afterwards, thinking it came across too negative; but growing up on a farm and striking out on my own at 17 makes me no stranger to the value of hard work, both physically and mentally. Those feeling entitled to a free ride on the backs of others really chap my rear.
I've been lurking on this forum for a few months now and have learned much about band sawmilling, which will be my next "adventure", hopefully in the next 12-24 months. I've also gained a lot of respect for many of the members who regularly contribute to the knowledge and overall personality of the forum. Kudos go to the moderator as well for keeping a clean house. I've been part of motorcycle forums that have degenerated into political and religious sandboxes with an elite few controlling the allowed content. Needless to say, I no longer participate there!
Thanks to all for giving me a great (free)  ;D  :D : education in milling so far. I will do my best to add to the knowledge base as quickly as I can.

[Raider Bill]

Welcome Canuck-49!

I agree about hiring. It's a constant battle for us here. Mostly we hire Mechanics as most of our work revolves around broken or classic cars and bikes. They don't have to wrench just verify failures or apply their knowledge on paper never needing to touch a single tool.  Guys applying tell me they haven't had work in months/years then start demanding what their conditions have to be in order for them to work. Listening to them sure takes the mystry out of why they are unemployed. Most seem to want to sit home and complain about how George Bush or pick a reason caused them all this grief. I'm convinced that nobody in NYC or Chicago wants to work as I've had ad's running there for months and nobody even remotely seems to want the jobs.

[Kansas]

I have a Casey now that takes care of these things. She can be your best friend. Or your worst nightmare. Its all about attitude and a willingness to try, along with being able to show up on time and get along with co-workers. Smartest thing I ever did.

[Coon]

Hmmm, the wife says we should move somewhere warmer whee there's work to be had.   :D  She says you could always take your mill with.   :D 

[Tom L]

sorry to say that I don't think it is a regional problem, here in NJ I have the same issues. very very hard to find someone to work and try to learn. I start guys at $19/hr, with full medical and a pension
employees pay in nothing, I cover it all.

one bright note, I did hire a young man 6 months ago who has showed up every day and has learned to use quite a few machines out in the shop. works hard and is very smart. 21 yrs old.
I think he is around 1 in three hundred at this point.
good luck and keep looking

[terry f]

     Everything here sounds familiar. We use a temp service and it takes about 30 to find a keeper. Some of the changes i've seen the last 25 years is a third of the guys don't have drivers license over half have garnishment. We are union and it used to be the senior guys would fight over the overtime, now the junior men have to take it because nobody wants it, but they are all broke and complain the don't make enough money.

[captain_crunch]

Terry
I am clear accrost Or (cottage Grove) can pass Drug test what line of work you offering
Brian

[Carpenter]

     I'm looking for help again too.  I run a construction business, we also do some logging, sawmilling, furniture building, etc.  It's all building oriented at any rate.  I've got a pretty good reputation in this area and even in this slow economy I have to turn a lot of work away.  Had a 3 man crew during the summer, but my crew was not working together well, so I fired one.  He was a nice enough guy, but due to a past drug problem and lack of skills, he was never going to last in my operation anyway.  The other guy I thought had some potential, he sure talked a good talk but when it came to getting the job done he was just at a loss, unless I was right there all the time to tell him what needed to be done and when to do it.  I can't be right there all of the time, and a lot of times it was really faster for me to just do the job rather than to explain to him how to do it.  But, there are times that I really need an extra set of hands, so I tried very hard to keep him buisy. 
     Well, Dec. 9th was the last day he worked with me.  He just didn't show up and didn't call, and he had no phone and his cell phone had been broke all summer so I couldn't call him.  I had no idea what was going on but I gave him two weeks and then I started telling my customers that I couldn't get to their jobs if they were two person jobs untill I find somebody else.  They all understood, I may loose a few jobs over this but, I don't think I've lost any customers due to up front honesty and communication.  Fortunately, I've got enough one person jobs on the schedule to keep me buisy all winter, and they're mostly indoor jobs to boot.
     This guy finally got a phone and called me today and wants to come back to work like nothing ever happened!!!  I think he tried to strike out on his own and realized that he doesn't have the skills to make it.  If a guy wants to pick up a few side jobs for friends and family that's fine, but a little communication goes a long way.  I told him that I had switched over to one person jobs because I didn't know if he was coming back.  I also told him that if I needed some extra help that I'd give him a call.  But, I can't put a bid in on any two person jobs if I don't have somebody reliable.  And I'm just not going to work real hard to put a person to work that I can't count on.  It's really quite a bit of extra work to have employees, or maybe I've just had the wrong ones.  I've gone through several.  This situation was a first for me though.
     So, I'm looking to hire again.  I would really like to find a partner, somebody who has comparable skills, and has a vested interest in making the business succeed like I do. 

[Al_Smith]

Because this is a relatively low paying area of the country I can get pretty good "day laborers" for 10 bucks an hour .

Most of them for one reason or another don't have drivers licenses but in spite of that are pretty good help .

I imagine it would be a pretty tough deal trying to eek out a living with no marketable skills other than a strong back . :(

[ouachita]

In another lifetime years ago I sold material handling equipment.  After 6 months I was #2 in seniority out of 8 salesmen.  After a year, two of us were making bets on how long a new hire would last. One day a new hire came in.  We were impressed.  Young, dressed well, articulate, eager to learn. This guy will be around for awhile the two of us agreed.  Lasted 3 months.....no passion.....no emotion.  If you sell, you have to believe in your product.  If you make a sale, you are elated, if not, you are not a happy camper. 

Charles Westmoreland CF, RF
Ivan, Arkansas

[Cutting Edge]

I agree 100% bout tryin to find good help.  How bout this...how hard is it to find a faller that can go in and do a crop tree release and not have to give instructions and how to's?  Heck, most guys don't rvrn want to take wedges with 'em, let alone some rigging rope and a couple small pulleys.  They tear up more than what their wages are.  Thats the case round here it seems.

Controlled directional falling, wedging, rope, rigging, etc; Is it a dying art/trade?

[Busy Beaver Lumber]

My full time job is working for a major electronics manufacturer and I have been there for almost 25 years. I started as a Associate Engineer with an Associates degree in Computer Science Technology. I went on to get a Bachelors Degree in Accounting and Masters degree in Management and worked my way up into an upper management position where I frequently have to hire to fill positions.

What I have observed over the past 25 years is dismal to say the least and goes a long way to explain why the unemployment rate is so high in this country. Good job candidates are definitely few and far between. As previously mentioned, you are lucky if half of them can pass a drug test or background screen. Then you can lop off about another 20% that have bogus credentials or worthless degrees from non-accredited on line papermill colleges where the only criteria for graduation is your ability to make your monthly tuition payments. Factor out the ones with bad attitudes, poor employment track records, or with "delusions of  superiority or adequacy" that think they are far better than what are and your are lucky if you have 5% left to select from. It is not uncommon for me to have to review upwards of 50 resumes to fill a single position.

On the other hand, we have had great success in meeting the staffing needs of Busy Beaver Lumber and I will share with you what works for us:

1. We use several outside contractors, many of which do their functions as side jobs to earn extra money, and this has worked out very well for us and them. They are aggressive small business owners that simply do not make any money unless they are working, so they have an incentive to show up and provide the services they are contracted to perform and appreciate the steady work we provide them with. We use them to supply us with firewood and to deliver our firewood and finished goods.

2. We do hire part time labor to wrap firewood and load the trailers and trucks when it is time to deliver the loads. We also hire labor to assist us running the sawmill and with other assorted tasks. Here we have limited our hiring to only some family members and close family friends and it too has worked out very well for us. They are fantastic with our customers and a pleasure to work with. We do treat them very well and go above and beyond what other employers would do for their employees. For example, they are paid daily, have access to unlimited, company provided beverages, receive company paid for meals each and every day, and we do several company sponsored BBQ's and a yearly Christmas* party to honor them. All of these are good investments on our part as we have a very loyal and cohesive work force that appreciates us as much as we appreciate them.

3. To give our workers and sub-contractors even more incentive, we do offer them a commission on any and all sales or sales leads that generate income for our business. This way as our income grows, so too does their income. To us, it is the right thing to do and I am constantly shocked at how many other individuals would disagree with this approach.

4. We listen to our employees and sub-contractors and encourage them to come forth with suggestions and concerns. We do not take the attitude of "We own the business and know it all, so just do it the way we told your to do it". I can tell you that many of their suggestions have led to more profitable, more efficient, less stressful ways to accomplish the tasks and have even led to additional sales. To reward them for these efforts, we pay them a bonus on top of the commissions on any additional sales generated. Plus we avoid the regretful pitfalls and associated frustration often encountered by many employees when they feel like they have something to contribute, but are just ignored or not rewarded for their initiatives.

5. We believe that offering good wages and some benefits are important, but that this alone is not sufficient to attract and retain good employees. I know guys that make six figure a year salaries and have full benefit plans that could care less about their employer or their job and show virtually no initiative and minimal loyalty to their employer. On the other hand, I can also introduce you to some individuals that make far less and have a much higher work ethic and level of devotion to their employer because they feel a sense of belonging and feel that they have an attachment to the business they are helping to build. Rather than dread going to work, they actually enjoy it and look forward to being there.

6. Break down the barriers between owner and employee. Get to know your employees, their families, and what their goals are in life. Be a part of their lives and care for them and assist them when they come on hard times and you know you can make a difference. Foster a work environment where they feel that they work "With You" and not "For You". In our operation, my wife and I work side by side with our employees, often doing the exact same tasks that we hire them to do. We do not sit in a cushy, air conditioned office area, while they are out in the main building sweating in 85 degree temperatures. Allow them to get to know you and afford them the opportunity to kid and joke with you. At our building, it is common for the people that work with us to kid around and call me "Mr. Beaver". I in turn kid with them and have names for them like "Mr. Woodchuck" for the fellow that does a lot of our wood moving, "Papa Smurf" for one of the contractors that brings us wood and has a beard, and "Mrs. Beaver" for the wife. I also like a good chop busting and accept it as well as I can give it out. It makes the day go a lot faster when you can have a few good laughs and enjoy one another's company, but most importantly, it keeps everyone happy.

7. We also strive to be different in terms of how we view what others would call our competitors. We have been very successful in turning what would traditionally be a competitor into a business partner. Why waste a ton of money trying to out advertise each other instead of trying to find a business relationship in which you work together to try to maximize both of your incomes. These relationships have proven very profitable for both us and the other companies and I could easily author and entire thread on that and would gladly share that info with anyone that is interested in cultivating such relationships.

[shelbycharger400]

busy beaver...
ive been told i have a bad additude..lol. but they know what i know, and can back it up. i have one diploma in automotive,  im about 80 to 90 percent done with robotics and automation,  and i have taken quite a few machining classes.

we are comming into the busy time at work, the temps will be comming soon. Its all too often  i see what your talking about with unskilled labor. I have to say,  Most of my bad additude is generated by the upper management that dosnt listen to what you say, or their lack of involvement. Their has been times when i told the engineer (several of them) how to do a task.   In my opinion, Companys run, mainly by the workers, treat them right, things will go smoothly.

[Busy Beaver Lumber]

Shelby

In the good old days, people showed up for an interview with a positive, cooperative attitude, and whether they continued to maintain that positive attitude after they started working for the company, was largely dependent on how they were treated by the company and what opportunities they were afforded for advancement and the recognition they received for their accomplishments.

Today, I see people with horrible attitudes right from the get to, especially brand new college graduates, who think they should be hired for the entry level position today, and be promoted to CEO by the end of the year. They spend half the time in the interview telling you what "They Want" or what they are NOT willing to do. They spend very little time telling you how the company will benefit from hiring them.

I actually had an Electronics Engineer, who claimed to have 20+ years of experience, actually refuse to take a simple 20 minute, entry level electronics screening test and tell me that he was insulted and thought it to be an invasion of his privacy. I tried to convince him that it was a very simple quiz we gave to all applicants, and that with his degree and years of experience, that he should be able to breeze right through it, but he still refused to give it a go, and the interview ended 30 seconds later as I walked him to the lobby.

[shelbycharger400]

maybe he was blowin smoke up ur way..lol.  I too have seen what i call Paper Engineers,  years in "school" but have to pratical experience , and some have no interaction skills.

i have had to take a math test, blueprint, and a measurement test just to move up to a assembler c position, kinda odd.