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Log scale question

Started by millwright, December 03, 2011, 05:48:32 PM

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millwright

What scale do you bandsaw guys use for estimating yeilds from logs,I find I am usually getting about 25% more than what the doyle or scribner scale reads. Thanks.

Bandmill Bandit

I go doyle plus 20 % and am usually still under actual yield at count time.
I know this is a tedious way to arrive at my method and it is totaly a rondom way to do it but I blew this picture up

 
and then counted the board ends in the 2 logs.


Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

kenlt30

Same here. I have been adding 30% to when I do estimates with the Doyle.
Ken

SwampDonkey

You will with those scales. But I think many use Doyle for hardwoods in the US, some International and a host of others. Doyle scales low on stuff under 14" top. International is closer to how it scales on NB Rule and Bangor Rule for us Maritimers and northern areas of Maine. You'll most always get more recovery than the scale if the logs are decent.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Larry

The only way to know for sure is keep track of how much lumber the log makes.  I kept track for quite a while on every log.  Small logs on Doyle scale will have a big overrun.  As size increases the overrun drops.

The reason I was keeping track was too make $$$$.  I found I could make better money sawing small veneer walnut logs rather than selling them.
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T Welsh

millwright,International comes real close on a thin kerf bandmill with butt logs. we use doyle in my area and I beat it every time by 20 to 30% Tim

zopi

I use Doyle, as I know that I will come in over that number, if I am sawing for someone else, then I will explain to them how the mill will recover more than the estimate without getting too precise...allows some slop in the figures for poor logs.
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SwampDonkey

Yeah, but I've sold wood before and sawmills don't take poor logs. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

zopi

Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

Banjo picker

I use 1/4 " International scale and still get a little better than 15 % overage.   

 

Banjo
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Ron Wenrich

I think a lot depends on what you're sawing.  If you're sawing 2" softwood at a 1 1/2" setting, you're going to get overrun and lots of it.  I can saw International on a circle headrig.  All boards are sawn plump, but I do saw blocking.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

captain_crunch

Now you know why big mills make the rules ;D ;D 30% over run is very common even with my 5/16 blade



[Photo Link Fixed - SwampDonkey]

[img]https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19561/100_1681_(Custom).JPG[/img]
M-14 Belsaw circle mill,HD-11 Log Loader,TD-14 Crawler,TD-9 Crawler and Ford 2910 Loader Tractor

Wintergreen Mountain

    I have just finished a period of time using the 1/4" International scale. Measuring the large end of logs, outside the bark to outside the bark ,at largest point. The bf calculation is usually within 2%-5% under the bandsaw mill total.

    Try it and see what you come up with? With me it runs quit constent.

    LEON
1920 Ford 4x4 tractor, forks & bucket. 2010 36" Turner Mills band mill. Cat-Claw blade sharpener. Cat-Claw Dual Tooth Setter. Cat D3 crawler dozer. Cat 215c excavator, Ford L9000 dump truck. Gardner Denver 190 portable air compressor. KatoLight 40Kw trailer mounted gen set. Baker M412 4-head planer.

beenthere

Leon
So you are measuring outside the bark on large end, as you stated?

Normally log is measured inside the bark at the small end.  Just so we understand. ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

SwampDonkey

I believe he does. He was just experimenting, to my understanding, with the scale.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

j rock

I do the same thing as Leon, you'll be surprise how close you'll come out.     J.
whats fun? making saw dust!!

Wintergreen Mountain

    beenthere,  Swampdonkey and j rock.

  Yes!    I measure outside the bark, large end of log using 1/4" International measure. It will supprise you as to how close the scale is to the actual final tally.  Expirament with it a little.

LEON
1920 Ford 4x4 tractor, forks & bucket. 2010 36" Turner Mills band mill. Cat-Claw blade sharpener. Cat-Claw Dual Tooth Setter. Cat D3 crawler dozer. Cat 215c excavator, Ford L9000 dump truck. Gardner Denver 190 portable air compressor. KatoLight 40Kw trailer mounted gen set. Baker M412 4-head planer.

beenthere

Leon
Doesn't surprise me at all. :)

The 1/4" in the name of the rule stands for the thickness of the kerf, and with your band it is less than that. Also, an overrun is expected and comes also from good sawing decisions.

Just wanted to confirm that you were measuring a larger log than was meant in the scale formula. ;)

Great that you are keeping track and know what you are getting from your logs.

Do you buy logs on your use of the 1/4" Int'l scale?  Or buy on Doyle?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Wintergreen Mountain

beenthere,

    I do not buy logs. If i ever do i will buy with the same rule and use the standard scaling procedure.

LEON
1920 Ford 4x4 tractor, forks & bucket. 2010 36" Turner Mills band mill. Cat-Claw blade sharpener. Cat-Claw Dual Tooth Setter. Cat D3 crawler dozer. Cat 215c excavator, Ford L9000 dump truck. Gardner Denver 190 portable air compressor. KatoLight 40Kw trailer mounted gen set. Baker M412 4-head planer.

Wintergreen Mountain

Have any of you Guys experimented with the international scale method i i brought up earlyer in this post?

Just courious!   :P

LEON
1920 Ford 4x4 tractor, forks & bucket. 2010 36" Turner Mills band mill. Cat-Claw blade sharpener. Cat-Claw Dual Tooth Setter. Cat D3 crawler dozer. Cat 215c excavator, Ford L9000 dump truck. Gardner Denver 190 portable air compressor. KatoLight 40Kw trailer mounted gen set. Baker M412 4-head planer.

Magicman

It is seldom that I measure logs, and then only for curiosity's sake.  It will be interesting to try it sometimes, if I remember.   ;D
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Bandmill Bandit

Yes Leon I have tried and I am finding my self defaulting to that once the log is on the mill deck now.

I still scale by the normal method using doyle when estimating but once they hit the deck I do a quick clac your way and it is generally within a 5% margin.(usually less) 
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Okrafarmer

I took a micro-whack of ERC logs to my friend who has a 52" circle mill to have him mill them for me lately. Some of the logs were better than others, but none of them were real great, and I don't think there was any more than a 12" top on the largest one. He uses Doyle scale, at least officially... I needed 288 bf of 2X6 from the cedar, and when I got the logs over there I scaled them up again and confirmed with my International stick that they read 305. He milled them up, somehow measuring 380 bf, and I got about 530 bf of lumber, of which about 430 was 2X6. That is after I trimmed out some of the worst wood.
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SwampDonkey

Doyle scale will beat you up bad on stuff under 14". All you need do is look at the tables. We're getting beat enough as it is, so I'm glad we have our NB scale rule, which is closer to International. Now if the prices would come back a little stronger. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Cutting Edge

Quote from: Magicman on February 18, 2012, 01:28:25 PM
It is seldom that I measure logs, and then only for curiosity's sake.  It will be interesting to try it sometimes, if I remember.   ;D

MM, with the beetle damage in your area, wouldn't you have to "carry" bark to the job with ya to measure with?    ;)
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