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Having a real hard time starting my D34 on my LT40 in cold weather

Started by CalebL, November 30, 2011, 01:15:42 PM

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MartyParsons

Hello,
45 d should not be a starting issue, but these Cat engines were tough to start when cold like in the 20's. Take a 12 v test light and make sure you are getting power to the glow plugs. If so then take the glow plugs out and hot wire them to see if they are working. They should get RED in 10 sec. Dont hold them to long or they will explode. There is a relay that operates the glow plugs it may not be working. When the starter turnes on the relay opens and the glow plugs turn off. There is also a fuse on the Relay ( looks like a thin piece of aluminum) .
Hope this helps. I have seen a few head gaskets fail on the 62 and the 51, I have not seen this on the 34. The gasket will leak combustion internal.
Marty
Yes a bolck heater would help like the others talked about.
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

ladylake

 Marty
  Are the glow plugs set up on a timer so they off after 10 second, if so I think the OP is holding them on way to long where they are getting cold again and yes they cool off fast on my Isuzu.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Chris Burchfield

I have the 51HP cat/per.  It also is a bit cold natured @ 20 deg.F and below.  I have had luck in cocking the throttle open a little with a stick.  Once she starts and levels out I remove the stick.  One other thing, have a good battery.  A couple of years ago, Woodmizer came out with an adder causing the glow plugs to time out at about 15 - 17 seconds.  I installed it on mine and have had no problem.  I'll go the 15 seconds when it's cold for starting.
Woodmizer LT40SH W/Command Control; 51HP Cat, Memphis TN.

CalebL

Thanks guys, I am going to check the glow plugs again and I also think some of you are right.  I may be leaving the glow plugs on too long and they may be timing out and cooling back down.  I will check the GP again this evening.  Thanks again. 
2005 LT40 HDD34
2000 Cat 226 Skid Loader

Bibbyman

Quote from: CalebL on November 30, 2011, 07:41:27 PM
I try to start out early in the morning so I pull my mill to location a lot of times before sunrise making it even colder.

Have you tried starting it at home and letting it warm up before taking off to the job?
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

CalebL

Quote from: Bibbyman on December 01, 2011, 12:35:42 PM
Quote from: CalebL on November 30, 2011, 07:41:27 PM
I try to start out early in the morning so I pull my mill to location a lot of times before sunrise making it even colder.

Have you tried starting it at home and letting it warm up before taking off to the job?

No but it's worth a try.  Thanks Bibby. 
2005 LT40 HDD34
2000 Cat 226 Skid Loader

MartyParsons

Hello, newer Cats and Yanmars would have timer hooked up on the glow plug soleniod. It should shut down in 30 sec. If the timer is hooked up. If it is an earlier Lormbardini, Kubota or Cat it glow plugs will stay on until the starter is cycled. The glow plug relay is part of WM wiring.
Hope this helps.
Marty
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

BBTom

My Kubota D42 shuts down the glow plugs after about 15 seconds. 

My normal routine is to turn key on, tighten the blade, by then the glow plug light is ready to shut off and hit start as soon as it does. 

I am having some problems with my Kubota,  sometimes have to run the heaters twice if it is under 20 degrees.  Keep in mind that it has almost 5500 hours on it.  It is time to get the injector nozzles reworked, probably the pump too. 
2001 LT40HDD42RA with lubemizer, debarker, laser, accuset. Retired, but building a new shop and home in Missouri.

Full Circle

Does the engine spin noticeably slower in the colder temps?  If so, your battery and/or cable connections may need attention.  If Cat allows a lower viscosity oil in the winter, that may help, too.  I had a starter going bad that only affected starting when it was cold (in my old Mercedes diesel), not making the needed revs to start the engine.  I don't suspect that's your problem with only 550 hrs.

Otherwise, I'm thinking glow plugs, too.  Or the power to them (timer relay gone bad?).  Glow plugs aren't terribly expensive (unless Cat's are a lot more than other manufacturers), and having spares isn't the worst thing if they don't end up fixing the problem.

A block heater will certainly help, but it may be masking the problem, as it should start at the temps you mentioned.  I'd stay away from ether for the reason Bibby stated.

Good luck and let us know how you make out.
-Roy



fullcirclefarmandforest.com

cypresskayaksllc

I dont understand how some diesels have such a hard time starting and others dont. The little yanmar on my jd950 doesnt even need warming at 30 degrees to start. It only needs a few turns and its gone. Why do some diesels need warming and some dont? Does it have to do with the size of the engine. The yanmar is only 30ish I think.
LT40HDDR, JD950FEL, Weimaraner

gandrimp

Heres how I check glow plugs. Test light to check your getting power too the plugs. Then undo each glow plug, check each plug when seperated from harness, one end of light to positive battery terminal the other end to the post of the glowplug, if it lights its a good plug, if it dont its bad. They have to be tested seperated from the harness.
LM2000

ladylake

Quote from: cypresskayaksllc on December 01, 2011, 10:13:20 PM
I dont understand how some diesels have such a hard time starting and others dont. The little yanmar on my jd950 doesnt even need warming at 30 degrees to start. It only needs a few turns and its gone. Why do some diesels need warming and some dont? Does it have to do with the size of the engine. The yanmar is only 30ish I think.





The best starting diesel I ever had was a DT466 in a truck, once it started a -27  with just a jump when the heater cord burned out, no either or glow plugs as it didn't have them.  This engine has a pump that gives it extra fuel for starting and the extra fuel is turned off soon as it gets oil pressure, if it killed when first starting I had to wait untill the oil pressure was down to 0 or it wouldn't start. This engine only ran a 16 to 1 compression as it had a turbo.   Sure would be nice if they would put this system on all diesels, never took more than 2 or 3 turns to start even at 0 or below.  I did keep this truck plugged in below 20* but once in a while the heater would quit.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

ladylake

Quote from: CalebL on December 01, 2011, 10:41:33 AM
Thanks guys, I am going to check the glow plugs again and I also think some of you are right.  I may be leaving the glow plugs on too long and they may be timing out and cooling back down.  I will check the GP again this evening.  Thanks again.




Once your sure they're working I'd try 10 seconds, as Marty said the should be red hot in 10 seconds. If no go try 15 seconds.  These glow plugs take quite a bit of juice to run and you should be able to tell when the get timed out, on mine I can tell by the electric fuel pump slowing down a bit when they're on or if there's a light that comes on with the key it will get a bit lighter when they get timed out, hit the starter then.     Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Al_Smith

Some diesels just start hard .My bud the tree trimmer has an L 55 delux New Holland skid loader that will start at 10 below zero using the glow plugs ,no problem .42 HP Perkins I believe .That same machine still needs a pre heat if it's 80 degrees .Go figure .

Old trick on the pony start Cats was to use a propane torch and shoot fire right in the intake ,they'd start in any kind of weather providing you could first get the pony motor started .That often presented more of a problem however than the main engine .

ladylake

 My little Isuzu is like that, won't start at 80 above without the glow plugs but will start right up at 0 with them. I'm not sawing any colder than that.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Al_Smith

I suppose too it depends on the engine design .Those older pre chamber diesels like the Cats were only about 16 to one comp ratio .Seems to me the more modern direct injection types go up to 22 to one  or so .

I know for example my parents 40 foot motor home has a 7.5 KVA Onan with either a Yanmar or Izusu diesel .It needs a heat on a cold start no matter how warm it is .Fires up on two,belchs ,farts hiccups and blows white smoke for about 30 secends then smooths right out and runs like a fine Swiss watch and runs on all three cylinders .

The 300 plus HP Cummins main engine fires right up no problem at all no matter how cold it is .Obviously a design thing .

Dave Shepard

The D282 engine in the IH 656 diesels use a precombustion chamber. You pretty much have to pre heat no matter how hot the engine is.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

CalebL

Well everything checked out OK.  What I did though was pump my fuel bulb a couple of times and open the throttle half way and it started right up 2 days in a row.  I have decided it just doesn't like cold weather. 
2005 LT40 HDD34
2000 Cat 226 Skid Loader

Dave Shepard

Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Al_Smith

Another trick that some times works is roll the engine a few times with the fuel off  then crack the fuel .The compression  less the fuel heats the cylinder and on some engines allows a start up easier .

That was an old trick on the John-Deere two cylinder engines .

T Welsh

None of our cats like cold weather,have 3 of them and have to plug them in at night when it gets below 40 degrees,if we dont they will start,but they will draw the batteries down fast and when they do start they will fog you out. Tim

Magicman

My Lombardini does NOT like cold weather.  Most of the time she spends the night at customer's locations so block heaters, etc. are not an option.  I just have to keep glowing and trying until finally.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

woodmills1

I have burned so many ribbon fuses to the glow plugs on the 70 that I left it out and complete the circuit with a 7/8" wrench




I love my 70 but it is hard to start cold or not
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

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