Double baseboard???

[Copper-x]

Hello all! Ive been lurking for awhile, great info here.

So here's my situation in a nut shell. Had a house fire 2 months ago (investigation showed it was electrical, but exact cause is waiting on electrical engineer). Mostly smoke damage. House is being gutted and insurance ok'd canning the 30 year old oil boiler (WAHOO!!!). I'm considering replacing it with an owb. (Im rural with access to woods). The issue is my plumber said that when he has done these in the past, and he doesn't do that many, people have been disatisfied with the heat they've gotten from their baseboard. He said they've basically had to double the amount of baseboard. Before you think he's being a crook he recommended off peak electric as a cheap operating cost (which would cause him to lose $ since the electrician would do the install). I'm on the more expensive power in the area and that would require 2nd meter installed.

Maybe I'm wrong, but common sense tells me that if my water temp going into the baseboard is the same it should put out the same heat, no matter the kind of heat source. I need to double check my exsisting boiler settings, but your thoughts?

[beenthere]

Welcome to the Forum.

I don't think you are wrong.
I have baseboard heat that was oil-fired boiler for the first 10 years.
I put in wood-fired boiler and heat the house just fine without any additional baseboard heat runs.

Your OWB will have a good supply of hot water if all is working right.

If for some reason it doesn't work, then plan a way to add more later. Depends on how adequate the original runs were for you, and you should know that pretty well.

I have a propane boiler for backup.

[Holmes]

Welcome to the FF Copper-x.
First thing I will say is spend your money on spray foam insulation, it will pay you back almost every day of the year. If you do the best insulating that can be done you will need less baseboard heat. Spray foam can cut your heat loss by 50% in some houses.
   No more than 60 feet of  baseboard should be installed for each loop or zone. 
   Most baseboard heating systems are designed on having 180 degree water going thru the system. If you run 140 degree water  thru the system you will need almost twice as much radiation to heat the house.
  If you insulate well you can easily heat your house with a good wood stove or OWB .If I had to choose I would spend the OWB money on urethane foam insulation,  put in a good wood stove and a new oil or gas boiler for backup.     Holmes

[thecfarm]

Copper-x.want to welcome you to the forum. I have no ideas on your questions. I use heat exchangers,forced hot air. But if you go with an OWB,you need to start to research which one is the best fit for you.

[doctorb]

I think the correct answers are in the above posts.  If you are not adding any square feet on your rebuild, and the amount of heat produced by the hot water baseboard (HWBB) was adequate prior to the fire, then the heating should be adequate with an OWB.  I don't think that the HWBB is smart enough to know how the water gets heated.  Is your plumber assuming that the temp in the HWBB will be 140 degrees?  If so, he's mistaken.  My HWBB runs at 180 with my OWB and I have the thermostats in my house set higher with my OWB as the wood heat is much cheaper than oil.  So our house is more comfortable for my wife and kids, and I burn less money, with the OWB HWBB.  I also agree with the recs. above regarding insulation.   

[John Mc]

Two things that I think would affect this: One is water temp, which has been discussed above. The other is the flow rate through your baseboard. If you are pumping half as much water, you may not be getting as much heat to the far reaches of your house. If you are using the same pumping system that you had before, this should stay the same (unless those same pumps are having to push it through a long loop out to your OWB?? I don't know how these things are plumbed & circulated.)

If the flow rate is the same, and the temp is the same, the heat output should be the same. Seems like it would be easier and cheaper to change one of those variables than it would to put in more baseboard radiators.

If your plumber has only done a few of these, and he's telling you that people have not been satisfied, that would be telling me that I need a different plumber if I'm going to do one of these systems. Or, at the least, you need to get your plumber working with someone who is well versed in the system do do the design work for this.

When we built our house, our plumber did a top-notch installation job on the heating system, but he got a firm that specializes in this stuff to design the system. They asked for a lot of information (size of various rooms, type of insulation, type/size/direction of exposure of windows in each room, type of flooring, etc.) They did a computer model and spec'd out how many inches of baseboard to put in each room on the second floor, how far apart to space the heating tubes in the radiant floor heat, and even what temperature to set water in the various zones in the radiant floor heat.  As i said, he did a great job at the installation, but he was the first to admit that the other firm could do a much better job of designing the system than he could. I believe the other firm did the design work for free, as long as he gathered the info, and bought his materials for the heating system from them (they did not require him to buy the boiler itself from them).

[mrwood]

I have to agree with everyone. I use forced air with my OWB so I am not 100% but if the old system had water 180* and the OWB has water 180* then it should be no difference. Unless like stated you use the OWB to pump the entire circuit. But I was under the impression that most people used a heat exchanger and used the original boiler in the house to do the circulating and the OWB just as a fuel source to heat the water?? :P

[Jasperfield]

And, If you have another meter, you'll have at least a minimum monthly fee, taxes, surcharges, etc. That extra meter will cost you more than what you might think.

[Copper-x]

Thanks for all the info!

I would love to spray foam, but since this is an insurance restoration they will only pay upto what was there, anything over that is out of my pocket. The good thing is they have to bring it up to code, so my 1977 house should be alot better than it was.

The plan is to keep the mechanicals of the zoning, piping, etc, the same. I kept it cool because of the price of fuel oil, but it would put out the heat I asked. I got out to the property today and saw the boiler to be replaced is set at 180, so an OWB water temp should be good.

One of my coworkers, whose opinion I trust, is friends with the local Central Boiler dealer. He says the guy knows his stuff. I plan on calling him after deer hunting is over.

[Dean186]

common sense tells me that if my water temp going into the baseboard is the same it should put out the same heat, no matter the kind of heat source.

Yes, I agree.  You have been given good forum advice.

[buckgrunt]

Copper X,

You mentioned that you are going to replace your oil furnace with an OWB. I recommend that in addition to installing your OWB,  you still install a new "regular" furnace as well.  Not having an oil furnace will affect the resale value of your home.  Also it is always good to have a "back-up" heating source in case you have to go back to a folssil fuel furnace.   Also, are you plannig on burning wood all year long for domestic hot water ?  If so I beleive an OWB it is rather wasteful during the summer months.  During the cold winter, I love my OWB... 

[doctorb]

The only other issue, in addition to Buckgrunt's suggestion about installing a regular furnace, is the future resale value of your home.  Some buyers are not going to be interested in your OWB, whether it's hooked up through an oil basement furnace or not.  If you put in a regular furnace now, which I assume will be easier to install now than later, you can always offer to have the OWB removed if a prospective buyer is uncomfortable with it.  If you don't put in some form of conventional heating, you could make your property harder to sell in the future. 

I love my OWB, but they are not for everybody.  Just a thought.

[Copper-x]

Right now the family doesn't use much hot water, we'll see when the kids are teens. So I'll use probably a propane water heater in the summer.

I have no plans of selling in my lifetime so that didn' how an OWB could turn off alot of buyers. Even though I don't plan on burning fossil fuels now,I am going to make sure that it is plumbed in a manner that would make it easy to install one later. Since my house is down to the studs I'm making sure to try to future-proof it as much as possible.

[Holmes]

 The largest impact on the future of living in your home will be the insulation. A very well insulated house will save you 2 to 3 cords of wood a year.    Holmes