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woodmizer , no upgrades allowed

Started by Tom L, November 07, 2011, 01:31:12 PM

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Tom L

First, I am not bashing anyone, I am very happy with the mill I bought and the service I get from woodmizer.

but this caught me a little off guard, my lt28 is basically the same frame and head and upgraded engine as an lt35

called my woodmizer rep on friday, great individual, no problems with him, them at all

but I was surprised that I can't take the lt28 to the dealer and have them upgrade a few parts too add a hydraulic clamp

or log loaders to the machine, seems the company will not allow it, so you have to buy a whole new mill to get a few extra functions. no big deal,(if you have the cash) I was hoping that sometime over the winter to drop it off and add a few things.

you can do it yourself, but void any or all warranties that come with it

so this must follow suit with the other model woodmizer's also, if you buy a lt40 manual and hope to upgrade a few things down the line, you can't buy the parts and woodmizer labor and make it an lt 40 super if you want to at a different stage in your mill's life. at least if you want the warranty to stand. or if you want the manufacturer to do the labor so it comes out right the first time with not having to tinker with it for months.

I guess it all makes sense, they want to sell new mills, but on the other hand they already have my business, so why not take more of it?

I thought I was thinking right by keeping things simple with the lt 28 and being able to upgrade if I thought it would help some more down the line. I couldn't afford the more complicated machine before, and sure can't swing a whole new one again.

kinda like taking my truck to the a local hitch dealer and have them put on a heavy duty hitch on my truck. and then having the dealer say the warranty is shot because I put a hitch on. I have to buy a new truck with a factory installed hitch if I want to pull something. but not being able to take the truck to the dealer in the first place and having them install the same item

Ianab

I can see their point of view though.

If they supply and fit an accessory they have to guarantee it will work. What if it causes some unforeseen problems with the hydraulics, electrics or battery system. Then they are on the hook to get it working.

The factory options are the ones that they KNOW will work. They have done the maths, built some prototypes etc. Probably spent those couple of months getting the bugs out of it. If you build a Frankenmill, well they shouldn't be on the hook to ensure it runs properly.

Other option is to sell the mill as they have good resale value, and get a new one, with all the options you want, or at least designed to take options in the future.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

sparks

Since we are using automotive as a reference it would be like taking a 2 wheel drive pick-up back to the dealer and saying I want it to be a 4 wheel drive now.  Or it's like taking it back and saying you now want a dually or I now want a 4 door cab. They will not do it because it is a major alteration of the chassis. Same with the LT28. For us to do it would be a major alteration of the main frame. These frames are welded together in a jig to make sure all components line up. When you start cutting on things, things can change. We are more than happy to sell the parts for customers who want to alter their mills but we do not offer that as a service.       Thanks.
\"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.\" Abraham Lincoln

zopi

There is a limit to adaptability of design and production, while the parts may fit, there may be underlying issues which could crop up later..plus, doing the engineering amd testing for retrofits on equipment which may or may not have been revised is very costly...which would drive the prices of everything up...
Found this out when installing the GO kit under my mill..evidently some subtle things have changed in production, amd while the parts fit, some things had to be modified to make everything work right..ie the fenders.
Sorta like the water jug on the lt15...yeah, it could be better, but would drive up production price on what is basically an entry level mill
Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

Tom L

Quote from: sparks on November 07, 2011, 02:57:33 PM
Since we are using automotive as a reference it would be like taking a 2 wheel drive pick-up back to the dealer and saying I want it to be a 4 wheel drive now.  Or it's like taking it back and saying you now want a dually or I now want a 4 door cab. They will not do it because it is a major alteration of the chassis. Same with the LT28. For us to do it would be a major alteration of the main frame. These frames are welded together in a jig to make sure all components line up. When you start cutting on things, things can change. We are more than happy to sell the parts for customers who want to alter their mills but we do not offer that as a service.       Thanks.

maybe some bolt on accessories would be the way to go. drill and tap, no stress built in or taken away. there seems to be a lot of holes in the mill now to accept other jigs for cutting specialty items.  I do know your point as far as cutting and welding material on the frame. and the stress that affects a precision frame when you add heat and shrinkage. I'm not referencing  major frame modifications. side by side they are the same except for some brackets to hold items.

Tom L

Quote from: Ianab on November 07, 2011, 02:23:51 PM
I can see their point of view though.

If they supply and fit an accessory they have to guarantee it will work. What if it causes some unforeseen problems with the hydraulics, electrics or battery system. Then they are on the hook to get it working.

The factory options are the ones that they KNOW will work. They have done the maths, built some prototypes etc. Probably spent those couple of months getting the bugs out of it. If you build a Frankenmill, well they shouldn't be on the hook to ensure it runs properly.

Other option is to sell the mill as they have good resale value, and get a new one, with all the options you want, or at least designed to take options in the future.

Ian

I see your point , but I was talking about factory options that they know already work. nothing new or a new design.

geraldhale

 I went down that road with my first wood mizer around 10 years ago, it was a lt40 and I wanted to add a hyd clamp and turner, I ordered a parts book from wood mizer for the lt40 hydralic and then ordered the parts I needed and installed them, on a saturday I think it was? It was not all that hard but me and the friend that helped me, we had both built or work on circular mills before so we both had some exsperience welding and fabracating.
I sold that mill easy a few years later for more than I bought it for, oh and I changed it from a 24 hp gas to a 25 hp three phase and added stronger legs for it to stand on, it was a good little mill but I got tired of having to walk behind it and I wanted a board drag back and that I know I couldnt add so I sold it and got the lt40 super electric with everything I could get on it the secound time around!!!
lt40 super,Meadows edger,Weinig moulder,24" Rockwell planer, Salem mill,Cornell edger,Pop up end trim, Fulgum chipper, Baker resaw, hazledine pointer, Landen strapping machine, John deere 480B lift, Case W20 wheel loader.

Bandmill Bandit

IMHO

If you do not have the shop, tools and equipment along with experience and knowledge to make those type of mods BEFORE you buy your mill then you should not do those kind of mods. Any mods you undertake should be done AFTER warranty has expired,  or just buy it the way you want it in the first place.

Mods have never scared me and more then a few pieces of farm machinery have a couple standard features today that I added as mods to my machines because I was to lazy to get out of the combine cab to do the manual work to close the stone trap or clear the lump out from under the header auger and then was to dumb to realize that every farmer would want one.

 
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Bibbyman

Quote from: Bandmill Bandit on November 07, 2011, 06:27:37 PM
..... or just buy it the way you want it in the first place.

 


Sometimes you don't know how you wanted it in the first place.  In my case I had to work on Mary for 6 months to get her to agree to a mill.  Then another couple of months to talk her up from and LT25 (ancestor to the LT28).  And then another couple of months to talk her up to a LT40 manual.  I just couldn't talk her into an LT40 hydraulic. (was no such thing as a Super back then).

But I agree.  If you want/need hydraulics,  trade up to an LT35 or just skip on up to an LT70 with the works. It will be a much more harmonious outcome.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Bandmill Bandit

Yea Bibbyman i grew up in a farm home like that too. Then when I started in farming with dad he would just blame it on me and ask forgiveness. I made some dumb choices but you learn from them pretty fast.

the one principle i run on now is this. If I cant afford it I dont buy it till I can. one thing i have done with financing is what I call self financing. If i can afford to make the payment and pay the finance rate I just start making the payment same as if I had bought it into what is called the tax free savings account here in Canada. Works like a charm and can add up pretty quick.   
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

DR_Buck

Quote from: Bibbyman on November 07, 2011, 06:41:09 PM
Quote from: Bandmill Bandit on November 07, 2011, 06:27:37 PM
..... or just buy it the way you want it in the first place.

 


Sometimes you don't know how you wanted it in the first place.  In my case I had to work on Mary for 6 months to get her to agree to a mill.  Then another couple of months to talk her up from and LT25 (ancestor to the LT28).  And then another couple of months to talk her up to a LT40 manual.  I just couldn't talk her into an LT40 hydraulic. (was no such thing as a Super back then).

But I agree.  If you want/need hydraulics,  trade up to an LT35 or just skip on up to an LT70 with the works. It will be a much more harmonious outcome.



........or just get "Mr Upgrade Designer" himself to help you.    :D :D :D


My Lt 40 hydraulic came with the Lub-mizer and Debarker.   But I've added a lot of upgrades to since I bought it.  

- Accuset // Accuset II
- Bibbyman movable backstops
- Stainless steel bunk covers
- Auto clutch
- Powered Board return
- Sun Umbrella
- Backstop top rollers
- Engine tachometer

What I haven't added yet is the new adjustable outriggers (I'd like to add but not ready to spend $$), high performance blade guides, seat and the laser sight.   These other items I've little interest in right now.


What I would really like to have is not available from Wood-Mizer as a retrofit.  That's a stationary console, which is now offered as an option on a new mill.   I may look into engineering it as an addition on my own.  ;D    I think all I need is longer electrical cables and the track.  
Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

zopi

Imo...wouldn't buy the thirty five anyway...if yer gonna go hydraulic, get a 40h at least...ya hafta pass up alot of good lumber with that little head...spend the other five grand and be able to saw the big logs...doing a twenty eight inch red oak on my fifteen right now..quarter sawing it...and all I could think cussing at it while I whittled the big bugger down was, jeez this would be easy with a bigger head...and hydraulics...
Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

T Welsh

Tom L, What everybody else said ;D Tim

Dave Shepard

The frame for a manual mill and one with the hydraulic clamp are different, there is a bump out near the axle to allow the two plane clamp to travel. I can see that they can't really make that upgrade.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

red

i think upgrades are good from a base model  maybe a lt40 to a super hd but a lt28 built on the same frame  is still a lt28
Honor the Fallen Thank the Living

Banjo picker

Quote from: Tom L on November 07, 2011, 01:31:12 PM
I thought I was thinking right by keeping things simple with the lt 28 and being able to upgrade if I thought it would help some more down the line. I couldn't afford the more complicated machine before, and sure can't swing a whole new one again.

It would have been a really good thing to have run that little bit of info by them before you bought it don't you think....Its obvious you were thinking about a future upgrade when you bought it...Tim
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Dr. Buck.....add a microwave and a drink cooler and I'll order one of your mills!
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Bandmill Bandit

Yea I have done a few additions/mods  too, lights, so you can finish the log or the job, a Green laser site that works real good in the day time too. ( have to do a bit more tweaking on it) a tool box, have the parts for the board return, debating on the fine adjust out rigging jacks from WM or do I just do my own? umbrella that works with or without the seat, have pretty much figured out a hydraulic centre roller to help centre logs and am thinking of building an in feed table.

I can get 21 foot 3' drill stem joints for $30 so the total steel cost to build would be about $200. If I spent another 300 on bearings etc that'd be about it. I have the hydraulic motor and most of the rest of the parts including a 4x8 sheet of 1/2 steal to cut the log loading arms out of. even if I spent a $1000 total out side of my time and welding supplies it still be a pretty inexpensive build.   
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

sparks

I forgot to mention that if you do the mods yourself it does not void your mill warranty if the parts are purchased from us. There is no warranty on the mod itself since it is not designed for the mill but the mill warranty is intact.
\"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.\" Abraham Lincoln

r.man

Now that sounds very fair. Until Sparks modified his comment I was going to say ignore the warranty and do the mods anyway but this is the better.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

Brad_bb

Yeah, I think enough of us if not all, are going to make mods regardless.  There are many with mechanical ablity here, and the ingenuity and drive to push forward and make things work better.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

pineywoods

I have up-graded and modified the dickens out of my mizer LT40. The waranty issue is moot, it's 16 years old. I use woodmizer parts where it's prudent to do so, but mostly fabricate my own. The basic design of an lt40 makes homemade additions and changes fairly easy. Mine started life as an 18 hp basic manual mill. Now sports a 25 hp liquid cooled kawasaki power plant, home brew hydraulic log turner, hydraulic log clamp, powered backstops, homebrew auto clutch, and a back yard engineered remote console. Got ideas about a setworks (factory stuff won't work) just not enough time in a day...If you consider upgrading a mizer, I'd say 2 things
1. Unless you are a world class welder, don't go welding on the frame or the head

2 Go for it.
             
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

zopi

Quote from: Brad_bb on November 08, 2011, 07:04:53 PM
Yeah, I think enough of us if not all, are going to make mods regardless.  There are many with mechanical ablity here, and the ingenuity and drive to push forward and make things work better.
Something I posted the other day...most sawyers are inveterate tinkerers...folks with skills are drawn to mills...besides a metal lathe, what other single tool can one accomplish so much?

Was cussing the not adjustable jacks on the GO chassis this morning, and think I have a good farmer engineered version of the fine adjust stands figured out...using the original LT 15 feet, bore the bottom hole big enough to weld the nut flush to the bottom of the foot and screw the foot in...this by itself should work, however, I am lazy, amd squatting to turn an inch and five steenths wrench in the dirt is not in the cards, so, weld a straight piece of round bar to the top of the foot, long enough to reach the top of the leg...weld a nut on top of this rod to make the adjustment with a ratchet or speed handle, then, since filling the leg up with sawdust is detrimental to sanity...make a plate steel cap with a piece of pipe big enough to allow a socket onto the nut and weld it on..just make sure the top nut is small enough to fit through the bottom nut...

Really elegant would be sliding fit square tube and stock, so that the top nut need not move at all....but since you really only need a couple inches of travel, that is probably overkill...and might rattle...this irritating the sawyer already running on coffee... lol
Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

zopi

Quote from: pineywoods on November 08, 2011, 07:44:56 PM

1. Unless you are a world class welder, don't go welding on the frame or the head.
NOW, he tells me. lol
Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

Bandmill Bandit

1. Unless you are a world class welder, don't go welding on the frame or the head(quote from pineywoods)

The Wood Mizer LT40 Frame has enough pre drilled/punched holes that you shouldn't need to weld to the actual frame because you can make a mount to bolt up to the frame.

Forces you to do a more professional job when you wrap you mind around using the existing mounting holes.
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

pineywoods

Quote from: Bandmill Bandit on November 08, 2011, 08:33:32 PM

1. Unless you are a world class welder, don't go welding on the frame or the head

The Wood Mizer LT40 Frame has enough pre drilled/punched holes that you shouldn't need to weld to the actual frame because you can make a mount to bolt up to the frame.

Forces you to do a more professional job when you wrap you mind around using the existing mounting holes.

Yep, that's what I did. Everything bolts on. I did drill 4 new holes in the motor mount plate to match the kawasaki, and 2 small holes for the redneck auto clutch.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

DR_Buck

Quote from: pineywoods on November 08, 2011, 07:44:56 PM
I have up-graded and modified the dickens out of my mizer LT40. Now sports a ......., and a back yard engineered remote console.


How about some details on the remote console?  Pictures will be really good.  ;D
Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

Brad_bb

zopi, we're gonna need some pics.  Or better yet video.  Remember on here if no picture, it never happened.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

beenthere

That reminds me....didn't see a good video of shucking the hulls off of the walnuts.  ::) ::)

;) ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

YellowHammer

Home grown mill upgrades - I am an addict. Start with a good plan, then git er done.  Drilling the first hole is the hardest, and after a whiile you don't even notice the smoking orange paint when putting the weld bead down.  It smells like fun...just don't do anything today you can't fix tomorrow. :D
YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

zopi

Quote from: Brad_bb on November 08, 2011, 11:40:41 PM
zopi, we're gonna need some pics.  Or better yet video.  Remember on here if no picture, it never happened.
Ah...I have not done the mod, and it is way down on the list...parts scrounging stage at best...
And I cannot upload...my only internet at this point is my phone...tough times.
Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

paul case

pineywoods mods look ok to me and he did them with no welding on the frame. Check them out here   https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,39860.0.html

life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

DR_Buck

Quote from: paul case on November 09, 2011, 01:39:48 PM
pineywoods mods look ok to me and he did them with no welding on the frame. Check them out here   https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,39860.0.html




I want to see the remote console pictures and details.  ;D
Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

pineywoods

OK, here's the link for my wireless remote console.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,33159.msg491067.html#msg491067

I don't use it nearly as much as I thought I would. I really need a simple setworks to really take advantage of the remote. Factory setworks won't work on my old mill...You also need the autoclutch option. Mines homemade..I never posted wiring hookups because the wiring on the drum switches varies a bit on some year models. Mostly, I just wired a heavy relay across the appropriate drum switch contacts...
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

DR_Buck

Thanks for the link posting Pineywoods.    Not exactly what i had envisioned or in mind.    I'm thinking more like the remote console setup Wood-Mizer includes or the tethered version thats used on the LT70.

I'm thinking all I need is an extended cable harness and a method to keep it from getting wrapped up in the mill as the head moves back and forth.   Probably need to see if I can add the track that's used on the supers.   If I mount the Control Panel/Accuset at the hitch end of the mill, hydraulics can stay where they are.   

I guess I need to make a trip to Wood-Mizer PA and take a closer look at the LT40 supers to see what all is involved.   ;D
Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

zopi

There are some good pics of the cable track in the mods thread...when bibby added the charging cable to their mill.
Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

MartyParsons

I guess I need to make a trip to Wood-Mizer PA and take a closer look at the LT40 supers to see what all is involved.   

We have one coming in 11/29. Bring your mill and we will trade. LOL
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

Brad_bb

Quote from: beenthere on November 08, 2011, 11:58:19 PM
That reminds me....didn't see a good video of shucking the hulls off of the walnuts.  ::) ::)

;) ;)
You got me there.  I went to try out the sheller and forgot my camera.  We finished cleaning up and bagging the nuts today, and I was regretting not getting it video'd.  I'd like to put a good video together for the process. 
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Bibbyman

Quote from: DR_Buck on November 09, 2011, 06:33:50 PM
 

I guess I need to make a trip to Wood-Mizer PA and take a closer look at the LT40 supers to see what all is involved.   ;D

I'd look at the new version of the LT70 remote.  No cable track..  Just one cable from control stand to mill.  Cable from head runs in frame with some kind of retracting action.









Yellow cable under the frame rail runs back inside the frame .
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

DR_Buck

Quote from: Bibbyman on November 10, 2011, 06:50:04 AM
Quote from: DR_Buck on November 09, 2011, 06:33:50 PM
 

I guess I need to make a trip to Wood-Mizer PA and take a closer look at the LT40 supers to see what all is involved.   ;D

I'd look at the new version of the LT70 remote.  No cable track..  Just one cable from control stand to mill.  Cable from head runs in frame with some kind of retracting action.


Thanks Bibby.   I didn't know about the new LT70 arrangement. 

I've been too busy to seriously look into doing this mod yet.  But just giving it a little thought it doesn't seem like it should be really hard.   If I leave the hydraulics alone where they are it should be as easy as putting a junction box at the mill head close to where the control and Accuset are now.  Then place a series of terminal strips in the junction box to connect a longer set of wires/cables that will go to the control and Accuset boxes.   Then make some sort of mount to hold the control head and accuset (probably could buy the LT40 hardware for this) and I'm done except for figuring a way to keep the cables from getting tangled or wrapped up in the moving head and track.

I think the Timber Harvester used some sort of overhead support trolley cable to do this.    Not my 1st choice, but it would work.   

I'd have to also research to see if any of the cables had length issues that would be created by extending them.   My initial thought would be the only possible one would be the transducer cable for Accuset.   It might need some added suppression/filtering to avoid picking up electrical noise.   Maybe Sparks can weigh in on this.
Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

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