PTO generator

[thecfarm]

I have a 6000 watt gas generator now that is really my FIL. Works great,but came off the Mayflower and only get 2 hours to about 2 gallons of gas. I would like to have one that goes on to a pto of a tractor. This way I would not have to start it 1-2 times a year to make sure it starts when I need it or maintain another motor.I need it to run a well pump,220 and my furnace,few lights and outlets. I do have a gentrac too. I have 2 tractors,30 and a 40hp. Would like to know the pro and cons of getting one. I do not lose power for long,usually. Been here 11 years and this year has been the worst so far.

[sawguy21]

Do you want the tractor running full throttle 24/7 until the power is restored?

[thecfarm]

I could turn it off to let it rest if I had too.Tractor we mow with runs at 540 rpm for 2-3 hours at a time. I suppose this is what a generator would have to be run at. But would not bother me to run it like that for 4-6 hours steady,if I had too.I buy my stuff to use,not to wonder what I will do with it today. I'm not the type that thinks I have to have power as soon as it goes out. Reason I'm thinking about this is I had trouble with the generator,worked good during the hurricane a few months back,up until the last of it. I never fixed it. We fired up the cook stove and flushed the toilet with some water from the brook and cooked on the gas stove this time.But was only out for about 12 hours.

[Norm]

Most of the farms around here run the pto generators. They put out plenty of power and you don't have to worry about getting them started.

[Gary_C]

You are supposed to run those PTO generators regularly to keep them in good working order.

I had to run mine for just short of two weeks straight after an ice storm. We had dairy cows plus it turned very cold after the storm so it ran 24 hrs per day. The tractor burned between 2-3 gallons of diesel per hour. So it would take most of the 80 gallon tank of diesel on the tractor each day.

I've never complained about the cost of electricity since then.

[Corley5]

To get "smoother" power that modern electronics prefer higher RPM engines with more cylinders are better.  Older four cylinder tractors running PTO generators may have imperceptible power surges.  An Oliver with a 6 cyl. would be better than a Farmall with a 4 cyl.  ;D 

[Ianab]

Do you want the tractor running full throttle 24/7 until the power is restored?

Tractor engines are designed to be able to do that, just like the engine on an industrial generator.  It's unlikely to even be running full throttle unless the genset is big, and fully loaded. It can sit there running under a light load at PTO rpm and only be 1/4 throttle. Sure it's going to use some fuel, but so is a big generator.

Ian

[Corley5]

You set the throttle for the PTO speed be it 540 or 1000.  The engine's governor then regulates the fuel supply to keep the PTO speed constant as the load changes.  They don't run at PTO speed at 1/4 throttle    ;)

[Al_Smith]

A gallon an hour probabley is not outragious if the generator were fully loaded .Running a well pump and a furnace blower as a rule they would not be .FWIW my 5KW will go about 9-10 hours on 5 gallon .

I'd just tune the engine up and call it a day .To get a whole house unit would cost you a fortune not only purchasing one but also operating one .Not much sense in that unless you had a dairy farm with cows to milk or something like that .

Oh I suppose if you only had a few cows you could hand milk them but you have to use caution in some place like  Minnenosta where it gets cold as a well drillers behind .If you wear wollen mittons to keep your hands warm the cow will get tickled and giggle causing her to give cottage cheese .What would you do with all of it ?

[PC-Urban-Sawyer]

...If you wear wollen mittons to keep your hands warm the cow will get tickled and giggle causing her to give cottage cheese .What would you do with all of it ?

Al,

It's been a long time and it didn't get that cold very often in North Florida, but I thought the tickling caused giggling which caused jiggling which caused milk shakes! And you had to drink fast before they melted...

Herb

[jbeat]

If the gen. is 540 RPM driven and if your 50 HP tractor has a 1000 RPM stub get an adaptor and the 50 HP may be able to handle it at a high idle.

[bandmiller2]

Cfarm,depends on your loads,you would have a 30 hp engine running for a load that could be handled by a much smaller engine.Generators must run at syncrenous [sp] speed to get 60hz.the cheap ones 3600 rpm the better ones loaf along at 1800.For your application a PTO unit would be overkill,unless you just want it.Of course it could be used to run equip. like a large plainer or even a bandmill.Mayby the best solution is a 10-12 hp engine genset running on propane or street gas that turns at 1800 rpm. Frank C.

[John Mc]

You set the throttle for the PTO speed be it 540 or 1000.  The engine's governor then regulates the fuel supply to keep the PTO speed constant as the load changes.

The tractor engine's governor will generally not do as good a job maintaining exact speeds under varying loads as a decent stand-alone generator. Some things are not as sensitive to the resulting varying line frequency, but other items are very sensitive to it.

Also, a word of warning to those throttling back a tractor to use a 1000 RPM PTO to turn a 540 input RPM generator head: Even though this may give you roughly 1/2 the rated HP from a typical Diesel engine, your speed regulation will not be very good at all under varying loads. You are running the engine at the wrong point on its torque curve for that. You should be able to set things pretty well for a relatively steady load, but varying loads are going to cause you problems.  Some of the very brief surges may be absorbed by the larger spinning mass of the larger engine, but don't count on stable voltage and frequency running this way if you have significant variations in your load (deep well pump, Air conditioner, or electric water heater kicking on, for example)

[Ironwood]

I have considered this as well, but there are LOTS of surplus diesel gensets available on an ongoing basis on Government Liquidation .com.

A friend just ran one for 100 hours a few months ago in New England after one of the storms, worked well, 3-5kw

Ironwood

[OneWithWood]

Ironwood, would you happen to know if your friend is running a genset with a floating ground?  I have an army surplus 3kw unit that i would like to use as a backup generator but I have not been able to figure out how to hook up a floating ground unit to the transfer switch for my house panel.

[plowboyswr]

To get "smoother" power that modern electronics prefer higher RPM engines with more cylinders are better.  Older four cylinder tractoors running PTO generators may have imperceptible power surges.  An Oliver with a 6 cyl. would be better than a Farmall with a 4 cyl.  ;D 

hate to burst your bubble but 4 of our farmalls are 6 cyl,  5 are 4cyl and 1 is 3cyl. The 3cyl will hold rpms more constant than the 4cyl and I am talking about pulling a pto generator. It's not the number of cyl its the senitivty of the govenor. As far as buying a pto generator if you allready have the tractor and need a generator to run the whole house price is hard to beat. I dairy with my dad and brother we use pto generators when we have to but they come in handy for other things too. We use ours to run air compressors and welders for in field repairs.

[countryboy1]

Lots of pro's and con's to each.  Tractors running unattended for long hours with no operator watching the gauges in the ca
b (can be real $$$).  Been there and done that while milking and ..................!!!

Generators need to be started on regular basis for maintance (in case you need them).  Tractors are always hooked to other equipment and power always goes out when the generator is blocked in by other equipment (usually in the dark).

You don t need a generator often, but when u do u do!!!!!!!!!!!!  :D

I prefer the pto for the dairy but if just the home a portable one (runs cheaper).  Find one the runs on propane at $2.01 per gallon locked in last fall is the best.

[Al_Smith]

It just depends on the situation .If you have the money they make natural gas or propane units with automatic transfer switchs,exercise run cycles and about anything you desire .Cost-a- plenty though .

In addition to the little 5kva unit at the house I have an old Army signal corps 20 kva Onan that resembles a small locomotive .Geeze though dumping gas in that old relic would resemble the national dept I think .

[Al_Smith]

More .I'll tell you what would be the hot set up .A 7.5 KVA Onan diesel gen from a motor home .These things have a transfer switch with a built in run temp thing .That gen set will not transfer the load until the Yanmar 3 cylinder engine is up to operating temp .It also will not shut down after its' run time until the temp of the coolant drops down .

You can Google it or find them on flea bay usually fairly inexpensive considering what they are .

That little diesel will operate a darn sight cheaper than gasoline .Glow plugs ,they'll start at ten below zero .

[tcrew]

More .I'll tell you what would be the hot set up .A 7.5 KVA Onan diesel gen from a motor home .These things have a transfer switch with a built in run temp thing .That gen set will not transfer the load until the Yanmar 3 cylinder engine is up to operating temp .It also will not shut down after its' run time until the temp of the coolant drops down .

You can Google it or find them on flea bay usually fairly inexpensive considering what they are .

That little diesel will operate a darn sight cheaper than gasoline .Glow plugs ,they'll start at ten below zero .

I own a 2005 kubota with a 3 cyl 23hp diesel like the diesel u mentioned above,and at WOT it runs 8hrs+ and holds 5.2 gal. So pretty efficient, i think. I also have a little 6kw 8hp gas gen that holds 1 and a half gallons of gas,and goes dry in about a hour and a half.It has both 240/120 outlets and is a older Coleman,but that fuel consumption i mentioned with it is only using the 120 to run a few basics,fridge and few lights. I use my Kubota at WOT while splitting wood with my 3point splitter. All the farms round here use the pto gens like u guys are talking about,and ive been keeping my eye out for one,,cheap.    

[Al_Smith]

Factually speaking a gen set is just used as a back up source or for the convienence of remote power .As long as it's large enough to do the job and not so big as to consume fuel excessively they all work .

Now unless  you run a dairy operation or a big hen house most just need a smaller unit .A few lights,the frig and water pump and for a short period of time you're good to go .Fact is  little well made units will run a computer,TV and everything else pretty good for that matter .It just costs about 4-5 times the money to make your own as to buy it from the power company .

I'd venture a guess that a little 8 HP / 5 KVA unit would cost 25 bucks a day to run with the price of gas these days .Then again it's certainly cheaper  than replacing frozen water lines that burst .

[MrMoo]

I have a WinPower PTO generator turning out 7KW (30A) of power. I power it with a 41 HP tractor. it works good but you need to be careful running electronic equipment. Inverters are best for electronic equipment. If you just want to power refridgeration and be able to take a shower PTO generator is a good way to go.
Moo

[Donald P Sebold]

My thoughts on stand-by power. 

When generating electrical power, it is very expensive no matter how you do it.  10X the cost of what you purchase from the power grid, especially if you use fuel that includes road taxes.  I have found that fuel consumption equals how much/how many watts you are using.  When I loose power I can figure that it will cost me $40 - $60 dollars a day for gasoline.  My grid power cost about $4.00 a day.  I'm thinking that generating my own electrical power is only 10% as efficient as grid power.

My thought is to reduce my electrical needs by installing propane to heat water, cook and heat when needed instead of generating my own electric for these things.  I feel that I could get my minimum electrical need down to 2 or 3 kilowatts which I could do with a small diesel or propane generator.  Propane would be most reasonable if I cooked, heated water and heated with propane because I would have a storage tank already.  Of course if I had natural gas that would even be better.  This way I would not be paying 10X the power cost to operate these high energy use appliances.  Also with an inverter I could operate lights and a TV or computer for a few hours at night on batteries. 

Of course, if you are running a farm then get out the tractor and hook up the generator and go feed and milk the cows.

I forgot maintenance and equipment are a big cost also..

[Hilltop366]

Ok what is a gentrack?

It may be more cost effective to find ways to reduce your load and get by with a smaller generator or not having to run one continuously, things like a larger water tank or a second gravity fed tank would reduce the number of times the well pump would have to run, an inverter and a few batteries to run some lights (cfl or led bulbs would be best) and other small loads allowing you to shut off the generator for hours at a time. I use to run my wood boiler circulator for several days at a time on a old truck battery and a 300 watt inverter while I was building my house, could also run a few cfl lights as well.

[thecfarm]

Just to make it clear,I'm looking NOT to maintain another gas motor. With a gas genator it may sit for 2-3 years without being used. Than I need to start it once every 6 months or so,a bother to me. Just thinking of a pto one. This way it should be ready no matter what,I hope. What I have for a gentrac is just a big plug to hook up the genetor and flick 4 switches on the gentrac panel. There are some out there as soon as the power goes out,a motor kicks on and runs the whole house.