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Quarter Sawn Sycamore

Started by T Welsh, November 03, 2011, 06:38:13 PM

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T Welsh

Hey guys, Finally got a good sycamore log to try quarter sawing. got 2 8 footers out of the trunk,it has a little butt rot in the base,but the next log up is clear. it probably has metal in it somewhere,but who cares this one is for me ;D Its about 45" diameter so I will have to rip it down or do the gun powder trick to half it and then rip it. Tim










logboy

Anyone nearby with a slabber?  It sure would make some beautiful table tops at 45".
I like Lucas Mills and big wood.  www.logboy.com

scsmith42

Tim, that ought to produce some nice QS!

The drawback to the gunpowder split is that it causes you to lose some of the prime QS material.  If you could have someone with a slabber slab it into 3rds, and then mill those you'd have a higher recovery of high figure material.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Dave Shepard

What was the reason for removing the tree, arborphobia? That is about the same size log I quartered. It's also about the right size to actually get some good wide quartered boards from. It's a bit of effort to break down the log, but well worth it. In my experience, I'd only go after a big sycamore log if it came available in the manner you acquired yours, or a blowdown. I wouldn't take down a big old sycamore just for the log, a bit of a waste in my opinion. Looking forward to seeing what you get. :)

Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

T Welsh

Yes about 10 miles down the road.Hearne Hardwoods, Rick has a 9' footer. But I want to play with this one myself. the crane scale read 5000 lbs. on each log. the skid steer will pick up about 2500. and I dropped the logs in the yard.I am dying to blow a log apart. We now have a legit reason to do it. I will call our chief of police and tell him what I intend to do,and see how it floats. or I end up ripping it down with the saw. I want to have some lumber to make furniture. will try the butt log with rot first. scsmith42, Your right I will lose good 1/4 saw material. but did I mention,I wana blow something up :D scsmith42,rich landowner wants to restore the house and put the original porch back on the house. I know! and destroy a 100+ year old tree to do it! some people have no sense at all!!!! but if we didnt take it down somebody else would.I see that you ripped the log that you got. how did it turn out,much figure or here and there? Tim

Dave Shepard

That log yielded a nice pile of highly figured material. I'll get some pics at work of the panelling we made.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Kcwoodbutcher

I wouldn't blow it apart. Sycamore has a lot of cross grain and wont split easily. You will likely destroy more than you recover. It's a soft wood that's easy to saw, I've done many and it only takes 10 to 15 minutes to split a 40 incher.
My job is to do everything nobody else felt like doing today

T Welsh

You guys are all right. I shouldnt blow it apart. But I want too :D Dave, picture would be nice,kind of tells me what to chase. Kcwoodbutcher,I will saw it into 3rds and cut from there,like scsmith42, said. I still want to blow something up. Tim

WDH

You can blow up the slabs after they warp and twist  :D.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

hackberry jake

It's not as hard as you might think. Just dont do like me and saw 90% through it then think it'll pop apart with wedges and sledges... unless you want a heavy upper body workout. The last pic is whats called Ambrosia Sycamore. Its where little bugs bored into it at some time in its past and as the tree grew it created this colorful scarring as far as I can tell. The color faded as it dried out, but still looks pretty stunning with the darker streaks running through it. Add plenty of weight to the top of your stack, it will move if allowed to do so.
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

WDH

Quote from: hackberry jake on November 03, 2011, 09:31:46 PM
Add plenty of weight to the top of your stack, it will move if allowed to do so.

It is going to move anyway, no matter what you do  :D.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

zopi

Ya can have that sick some more....I want the toys...errr...tools it was removed with...omg, I could blow through some work like that...
Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

cypresskayaksllc

hackberry jake, what did you do with that ambrosia?
LT40HDDR, JD950FEL, Weimaraner

hackberry jake

Some of it made interior log cabin siding, some of it is still stacked up, some of it went into my sawshed if it was less than spectacular or dried crooked.
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

T Welsh

WDH,I dont like boards that become bacon in a frying pan,hackberry jake, I will take a picture of end grain today when I get into work,it was still very wet,actually pouring water out,this one has almost a pinkish color in the heartwood,no ambrosia.zopi, the toys make life a lot more enjoyable for sure,but they also come with a price tag :D Tim

zopi

Yeah, I know. I would be tickled with a chipper that works...
Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

WDH

Sycamore and sweetgum and hackberry have given me fits about warping and twisting.  Some boards dry relatively flat, others want to corkscrew. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Brad_bb

Quote from: T Welsh on November 04, 2011, 06:33:28 AM
I will take a picture of end grain today when I get into work,it was still very wet,actually pouring water out,this one has almost a pinkish color in the heartwood

Pouring water?  Seal that endgrain until you go to saw it.  You don't need any water leaving unevenly from the ends.  That will only cause you problems.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Quebecnewf

I have a question and it may be a dumb one.  I see three pieces of mach working on that tree . That crane has to cost a lot by the hour for sure. Is there some reason not to just fell the tree.

Reasons not to fell that i can see from the pic

Lack of space????
Want to save the bottom trunk for lumber???
Nervous homeowner???
Lack of felling knowledge???
All or none of the above???

Quebecnewf

hackberry jake

Sycamore is a very wet wood, while we were sawing it, the sawdust was sticking to the inside of the guards til it got heavy enough and fell off. You definitely won't have any dust problems. If it were me I wouldn't bother end sealing it. It wouldn't split if it was holding two aces.
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

WDH

Sycamore is the wettest wood that I have ever sawn.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Troublermaker

Talking about sycamore warping and twisting. Some years ago I use to haul some lumber for a man that had a mill in the woods. He was cutting a piece of timber that had a lot of sycamore in it. I was hauling 5 or 6 trailer loads a week of them A lot of the sycamore was big enough so after you square it up the sawyer would saw all most thru it in the middle leaving just enough so that it would stay together then bring the log back flip it over to and saw the 2 haves in to make 4 railroads ties. Any way I don't know how many loads that I haul to the tie yard that spring but as soon as the weather started to get hot and the sun shinning down on that sycamore that was on sticks it turn, twist and did just about anything that you can think of. Most of the ties unless they was on the botton of the pile with a couple of bundles on top of it end up going in the chipper. That was the end of cutting sycamore ties around here.

T Welsh

Quebecnewf, Did you ever hear the saying time is money. we dont play around when it comes to big removals. another saying comes to mind,the right tool for the right job.this job was a sub contract from the firm restoring the house. space was the biggest factor,herb garden inside fence! log was of no value to us.wealthy homeowner.we removed 4 sections of wood from the trunk,butt 8'log was 5100 lbs. 2nd 8' log was 5000lbs. 3rd section was 16' and 6500lbs. and top was 4500lbs. all read from digital scale on crane. lack of felling knowledge? I will not comment on that. Yes we could have taken it down limb by limb, but you have to understand we do this everyday day in day out and get paid according to our performance. we use cranes at least twice a month,most take downs are routine,then comes the one,s that are headaches THAT,S when we get called in. Tim

Dave Shepard

They may not have had a landing zone for the tree, or there may be a septic field, etc.

Some of the sycamore I sawed just fell apart. It was very strange. The stuff was fine the day I sawed it, and the next day any of the lumber associated with that tree turned red, and was so full of splits I could fold the boards back onto themselves and almost get the edges to touch. Happened the other time I sawed sycamore at a different mill.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

hackberry jake

I guess I should have rephrased that part about "it wouldn't split if it were holding aces". Some of the sycamore I cut split as well, bit not end splits, whole board splits. One board busted apart as soon as the saw exited the log. Stresses? Maybe, but I think sycamore gets week between Tue rings as the trees approach a certain size. We had some boards separate between growth rings. Kinda strange seeing a growth ring separating from a board. However I do know that straight grained sycamore is stronger than straight grained pine as long as both samples are dry(field test results). Makes strong building material.
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

Slingshot



     I always had in mind that sycamore wasn't good for anything but to
sit on a creek bank and suck up water.. ..:)


__________________
sling_shot




WDH

It has the prettiest bark.  Also, the quarter figure is awesome, but there is a price to pay for getting it as most of the non-quarter stock you have to produce to get it seems to have drying revenge on its mind  :)
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

T Welsh

You guys have me thinking twice about playing with these logs, as I stated,there is no market in sycamore around here,considered pallet lumber at best, any one have any pictures of 1/4 sawn with rays,or figure. will try to find some on the net,but,if I am going to spend and hour or so busting log down into quarters I want to  see good results :D Tim

pasaw

The few pieces thay I have seen 1/4 sawn were beautiful, it had a lot of ray flec in it. I actually know of a guy that is looking for a few logs big enought to 1/4 saw for flooring

Dave Shepard

I think it's worth it:

My FF block, which is still MIA.

Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

T Welsh

WOW, Dave thanks for the pictures, I will saw these apart after seeing that. It will go into my own stash for projects later down the road.Thanks,Tim

Jeff

Quote from: Dave Shepard on November 05, 2011, 07:55:54 AM
I think it's worth it:

My FF block, which is still MIA.



I was  goona say, I don't remember seeing that.  ;)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

ARKANSAWYER

  Lay the logs back in the brush till next fall.  Skin the bark in lots of places and do not seal the ends.  You will find that it will not split with black powder very well as it will just bust and not split.  Split with a chain saw.








ARKANSAWYER

paul case

Sycamore is my favorite wood to saw for pallet lumber. It saws like butter and is gone before it gets a chance to warp and look bad.
Some of the first logs  I sawed with the old m-14 belsaw was syacmore. The water was flinging off the top of the blade as it went through the log. Talk about wet wood. PC
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

T Welsh

OK Guys, Got a picture of the Butt log and its brother, as you can see from the small end of the upper log it has some defects,a little rot,some shake,ect. has good color :)

I think I am going to go back and rip these buggers down, They are in my way and the longer I put it off the more of a pain in the a-- it will be. Tim

T Welsh

I got a good start on today and at 12pm it was my time to play instead of work ;D.layed out my lines and put an edge on the saw and started



If you look you can see my guide lines on top of log



Took about 10 minutes to get the first cut done



and about the same with the other side. I have wedges in to keep it open to get the saw out when I was done,stayed away from the bottom of the log with the saw so I would not hit the dirt. Its ready to pop open,while pounding the wedges in I noticed that this could turn into a workout so I walked over and got my buddy ;D

T Welsh

Sorry for leaving you guys hangin,but I hit the wrong key while loading photos and posted the thread before I was done ;)

I love my machines

They make my life easy ;D

1st cut came out good for a chain saw,2nd cut I lost my mark in all the saw dust and didnt catch it until 2/3 the way through it. My bad!

As you can see I am right on the outside of the fleck. My best friend just pulled up the driveway and got out of his truck and said its beer thirty(he had a bad week) so here is how this phase of the quarter sawn sycamore ends 8)

I will get these on the mill asap. Tim

Ianab

You deserve a beer after that   :D

Looks like it's worth the effort though  :)

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Brad_bb

Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Marc Thornton

Quote from: T Welsh on November 05, 2011, 06:53:53 AM
... as I stated,there is no market in sycamore around here,considered pallet lumber at best ...
. :D Just a reminder.  I'll be by to pick up that garbage for you tomorrow. 

Larry

I don't know why anybody would saw sycamore.  Everybody knows its only good for pallets or blocking.  Why I had a guy make me ship 500 board foot one time, clear to the left coast.  Guess they don't have pallet wood out there.  It was a lot of work packing up that wood, and scheduling a truck and all.









 









Once splated sycamore is a perfect gentleman...no problems with warp twist or anything.

Just speculation on my part but I think Q/S it could sell well in the flooring market.  Might need somebody to give it a little push.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Ironwood

There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

T Welsh

Larry, you where holding out on me :o That is nothing short of OMG. I am going to throw the cuts in the mulch pile and forget about them for a year. our area mills all list sycamore logs as misc. its at the bottom of the list in the area of .25 to .35 cents a BF.It doesnt even cover the fuel in the truck to run these logs to the mill. I had heard that 1/4 ing was pretty,so I got a chance to try it out. Tim

T Welsh

Got another ME day,finally got back and broke down the sycamore,went 4/4 to see all the fleck in order to judge how to break down the butt log next.I was not impressed all that much,its there,but for the amount of time vs. labor and effort it just didnt float my boat.

best boards of the batch. problem with ring shake if you look close. ruined half the boards in the best figured area,still some good stuff.



Book matches pieces showing the fleck,its pretty ;D total yield out off the middle section

quarter sawing is a lot of work with little yield and a lot of saw dust,but the rewards are great,best grade lumber,and figure to boot. I was some what disappointed with the log quality,but thats what mother nature gives you. would I do it again,no.only if some one else is footing the bill. Tim

metalspinner

That has been my experience with Sycamore, T. 

I've seen lots of it with shake around here.  Just when you think all the shake is out, more shows up ion the drying process. Also, because of the interlocking and spiraling grain, the ray fleck twists through the log and disappears from the board faces. :(

But...

The few boards that remain make it all worth the effort to me...









;D
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

Kansas

Its been our experience that if you let the logs lay for a week or two, one of two things is going to happen. It will split across the face, or it won't. if it does not, it will be shaky, even if you don't see much for shake. If it splits across the face, your in good shape. We strictly qs only on a grade log. Everything else is pallet and blocking. Just had maybe the finest one I have ever had come in. Measures close to 42" on the butt, 38 at the end of 8 ft. We should be able to get some 18" true quartersawn boards out of it. Because of the tree's oblong shape, we might even approach 20.

T Welsh

Kansas,Your right on the money with this type of wood, it wasnt the best quality but I saw hope in it. I saw the shake right off the bat when I loaded the logs on the truck, they stuff saws like butter,and was still so wet water was pushing out in front of the blade :D When I got close to the shake the first board I laid down popped when I dropped it 3". I just sawed 4 white oaks last week in half the time it took me to play with this sycamore. The good part is the high end builder that is restoring the house where the log came from wants some wood to do a project for the homeowner. I may be able to recoup my efforts. Tim

metalspinner

Twelsh,
It sounds like you made a perfect situation for yourself.

You're in the tree business. You bought a sawmill to optimize good wood. You're a woodworker that needs to feed his habit. And you're a good guy.  :)
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

T Welsh

Quote from: metalspinner on November 13, 2011, 09:48:51 AM
Twelsh,
It sounds like you made a perfect situation for yourself.

You're in the tree business. You bought a sawmill to optimize good wood. You're a woodworker that needs to feed his habit. And you're a good guy.  :)
metalspinner, You hit the nail square on the head ;D It only took me 30 years to figure this out. I,m a little dense sometimes. Tim

T Welsh

Had a meeting with the owner of the restoration company that had us take the sycamore down,he came to the yard after work and looked over the butt log and the top log in 1/4 sawn 4/4 boards.



. He bought the whole shooting match and wants me to bust the butt log down the same way,but in 5/4. sticker everything and band up and give him a call and he will pick it up. Talk about an experiment that went right  8) This one paid off. I,ll take pictures of the butt log getting sawn up and see if its better than its upper brother(it should be) Tim

Jeff

I removed the (SOLD)  from the first post. I do not want people thinking that they can put items for sale in the sawmill section, and that sold alludes that you can.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Marc Thornton

Good for you.  I'm guessing the pay will offset the hassle of quartering them?  :D 

Who laid down the first price, you or the restoration guy? 

T Welsh

Jeff, Sorry about that It never occurred to me that way,my mistake. Tim

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