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Logs with Sweep

Started by wannabeonetoo, October 30, 2011, 03:03:08 PM

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wannabeonetoo

Hey guys, how do you deal with logs that have "sweep" to them ? Also, when taking your first slab do you level the log centered on the heart, or lay it flat on the bed (best face or worst face up), & take your cut ?
Sorry for the basic questions I'm just starting out.

Steve

kderby

Good question and I anticipate others will speak to this as well. 

I place the arc of the log upside down (the ends up).  Then level the pith and cut along the lowest point.  That is what I understand to be the best recovery of volume.

Does a warped tree always make warped lumber?  Slope of grain is a real factor but how much can we get away with?  I do not expect that lumber from a tree with sweep will be the best lumber.  The lumber may be serviceable but not suitable for many applications.

Any experienced sawyers want to do a tutorial on this?

kderby

Banjo picker

I try to just not saw them..ain't worth the trouble....If you don't get the answer you want...search sweep...There is 17 pages of info..some won't pertain to what you are looking for...some will....Tim
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

SwampDonkey

There is always firewood. Most mills won't buy more than 2" of sweep from dead flat. If it's a long log, then some of the sweep can be bucked out by making shorter logs. But that is only practical if you have some decent lengths (and diameter), like 8 foot or more, resulting from the bucking.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

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redbeard

There is a market for natural arches . Obviously there is only one way to cut them. Western red cedar is what i like to mill it has the best market for them because of the outdoor uses,



Arbors and signs and such.
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Ron Wenrich

Crooked logs yield crooked lumber.  On circle mills, they've always wanted you to put the hump up.  That was so the you could get the longest face before turning.  I've cut some on a 45° angle with some success, but you still cut into the pith too quickly and there just isn't any room for any grade.  There is a lot of waste in logs with sweep. 

Best to buck out whenever you can.  Our loggers say that you won't leave it in the woods, so they buck logs with some really bad sweep.  They're too crooked for the firewood processor, so I end up slicing them up and throwing most into the chipper.  It would be more profitable to leave it in the woods.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

wannabeonetoo

Quote from: SwampDonkey on October 30, 2011, 05:12:55 PM
There is always firewood. Most mills won't buy more than 2" of sweep from dead flat. If it's a long log, then some of the sweep can be bucked out by making shorter logs. But that is only practical if you have some decent lengths (and diameter), like 8 foot or more, resulting from the bucking.

Holy Smokes !!!!!!! 2" from dead flat !!! That is straight to my eye  :D

Steve

Bibbyman

Far too many of the logs we get in have sweep in them.  We try to make beams out of them anyway.  As long as the heart (pith) stays in the beam, they are acceptable to our customer.   I try to start with the hump up and top ends level.  I can sometimes make a short board or two.  If the beam I'm sawing is a 6x11 or even 6x8 then I always put the sweep in the "tall" way - thus have the best chance to get a beam that will contain the heart.  Also, there is more meat on the tall way so there is less likely to bow due to the uneven heart (pith).

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Full Circle

I'm trying redbeard's approach with some of the locust I'm coming across.  We were able to get 2 arches (both milled two sides) from one 14-16 foot log.  Because they're from the same log they're shaping up nicely for carrying beams in a pergola.  No pictures yet, but they sure look sharp up on the 6 X 6 posts.  Like redbeard said, it's good for outdoor use, and may be easier to find a buyer because of it.  If you're looking for a buyer, that is.
-Roy



fullcirclefarmandforest.com

laffs

the mill i worked in had a sash gang saw and we could sweep saw those crooked logs. They dried flat for the most part
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Burlkraft

I usually try to do it Bibby's way.
Why not just 1 pain free day?

logboy

Keep in mind that many commercial mills have curve sawing technology. So sawing logs with sweep is not as much of a  problem as they actually saw on the curve with the log. There was an article on it in the last issue of SM&WL mag. 

https://sawmillmag.com/featured_article/issue_103/890/Issue_103_Featured_Article_1.pdf
I like Lucas Mills and big wood.  www.logboy.com

mikeb1079

this has also been a question of mine as i'm a rookie sawyer too.  i just had a smaller cherry log with a definite crook about halfway up, so i figured i'd just cut it at the crook.  the resulting logs are only 4' but still usable for plenty of projects. 
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tcsmpsi

As was mentioned, if possible, should be bucked out.  If I have one with much sweep (as opposed to being a 'little crooked'), I make the opening cut on its side, and usually flat cut the other side.  It depends on what I find there, as to what I do with it.  Lots of things can be done with curved wood.  Or, used for smaller wood and subsequent projects. I have found little effeciency, need or 'success' in cutting the sweep out.

There is an article in Sawmill and Woodlot's recent issue on milling sweep.
\\\"In the end, it is a moral question as to whether man applies what he has learned or not.\\\" - C. Jung

wannabeonetoo

Quote from: mikeb1079 on October 30, 2011, 11:01:27 PM
this has also been a question of mine as i'm a rookie sawyer too.  i just had a smaller cherry log with a definite crook about halfway up, so i figured i'd just cut it at the crook.  the resulting logs are only 4' but still usable for plenty of projects.  

That is how I have been looking at the trees I am thinking about harvesting, and like you said the result would be shorter lenght boards which would be ok for most furniture or personal projects. However I want to build a saw shed and will need long(er) lengths and most of the cedar arround here has some sweep or curve, plus if I ever cut for someone else they may not want the short lengths so I'd like to learn how to deal with it.

Thanks guys, keep the info. flowing. BTW, I haven't received my issue of SM&W this month so am anxious to get it.

Steve


red oaks lumber

wow, i must live in the junk wood world ;). i always have logs with sweeps(dang prosessors) weather they are mine or our customers. most every thing i saw is 1" i start with the sweep to my right, once my cant is sqaure and ready to cut thru, the sweep memory is down, that way when the board is dry it might hump up alittle but it won't have side bend
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

SwampDonkey

I just looked at some mill specs around here posted on the marketing board and 2" is all they allow on 8' softwood logs and some mills say "straight logs" only. They are a lot tougher bunch to deal with up here I guess. Or they want you to high grade your woods for the best trees I suppose.  ::)

Cedar with a lot of sweep is usually on real wet ground, the straighter stuff will grow up hill where the drainage is better. It will also be bigger wood. On the farm we had some areas the cedar was like hockey sticks and other places straight as a gun barrel.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

limbrat

I havent had much luck getting good lumber from crooked logs, but some times you can go another way and get something useful from it.

ben

Brucer

When you're sawing Douglas-Fir, you'd better be prepared to deal with sweep :(   Most of my sawing is timbers and I always try to squeeze as much timber out of a log as I can. Here's how I prefer to do it.

1) Lay the log on the mill so the sweep is parallel to the bed and the ends curve to the right.
2) Level the log so the center is parallel to the bed (not the pith, the physical center).
3) Saw down to within an inch or two of the final dimension you want.
4) Turn the log 90 degrees so the "ears" are up.
5) Level the log so the bottoms at each end are approximately the same height. Imagine the log on Bibby's diagram flipped over the other way.
6) Saw off the "ears". The goal is to have a flat along the length of the log, wide at the ends and just an inch or so in the middle.
7) Flip the log 90 degrees and saw the third side -- ideally it will be the mirror image of the first side.
8) Flip the log 90 degrees and saw off the hump (recovering as much lumber as you can). The goal is to have the two ends a couple of inches wide.

Now you can assess the timber -- you want to be able to drop down on side 4 to get the width you're aiming for, but still have room on side 2 to get the same width -- and keep in mind that logs aren't always symmetrical.

I've had people prepared to pay a lot more for an arched timber like the one Redbeard shows.




Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

tcsmpsi

Quote from: limbrat on November 01, 2011, 01:06:41 AM
I havent had much luck getting good lumber from crooked logs, but some times you can go another way and get something useful from it.



Double naught cool beans!   :)
\\\"In the end, it is a moral question as to whether man applies what he has learned or not.\\\" - C. Jung

WDH

You can say that again  8).  ("Double naught cool beans!").
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Chuck White

Must be nice to have such a creative mind limbrat.

Rustic furniture like that would bring a premium.  NICE.  ;)
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With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

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