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Boatbuilding workshop timberframe Design help

Started by timberbob, November 20, 2011, 01:19:01 PM

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timberbob

Hello!  and thanks for accepting me to the forum!

I have a little timber framing experience working for a company in Canada, but have moved to Sweden now and have a chance to take on a project for a friend in Stockholm and I need some help with a design proposal.

This is will be a workshop for boatbuilding with some living space on the upper floor.  Here are the floor plans he and an architect have come up with:





He needed these plans to gain his official building permission, which he has obtained.

So, I used sketchup, and borrowed the sizing and spacing ideas from the example plan on this page http://www.timberframecottage.com/su/

and came up with the following:




The Bents are 16 feet wide,
The Tie beam, or girt in the bent is 10 x 12
The Bays are 12 feet wide
Columns are 10 x 10
Rafters are 10 x 10
Floor joists and Purlins are 6 x 8 spaced a little less than 2 and 1/2 feet appart

I am not even sure what species we would build this in.  Pine?  I don't know what they would have for good timbers here!  I will ask another friend tomorrow who knows a sawmill.

My questions are regarding design, and although I am not looking for you to collectively engineer this for me (although it would be nice), maybe you have some suggestions that are obvious from your experience.

1.Can a 10 x 12 span the sixteen feet of the bent and support the loft space floor?  The ground floor needs to be free of columns for large boat work.

2. Does this bent require any more members in the Truss department, such as a king post, or queen posts?  If so, I need to consider a door that allows passage through the 2 interior bents.

3. If anything could be sized smaller, or designed more efficiently, please let me know!

Kind Regards,
ROBERT







dukndog

Welcome to the FF Timberbob!!

As for your questions, there's alot left open...as in codes for your area, snow load, etc. Refer to this post that Jim Rogers has helped me with. It will show how to figure the timber size per load for trusses, purlins, etc. which should help you on the sizing.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,50714.0.html
Thanks,
DnD
WM LT-15G25 w/PwrFeed, Mahindra 3510, Husky 385xp, Stihl MS261 and a wife who supports my hobby!!

zopi

Looks like he is probably making stripped kayaks, or plywood....does he have lumber storage elsewhere? That is a tight shop, and once one gets into storing the lumber and frames and strongbacks for different models of boat...he might need more room.
Got Wood?
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timberbob

Thanks Dukndog for the link!  I will work through those calcs and see what I can come up with...  I just need to figure out what the heck snow load in swedish is!

Zopi, He probably could use more room, but the building will be next to his home on a small lot in Stockholm, zoned as his garage.  I think the size is also quite restricted by his building permission which took him years to get.

I will gather more info and return!
ROBERT

Dan Miller

Hi TimberBob,

I am building a very similar sized building for the same purpose - building small boats! My footprint is 16' wide by 32' deep. It has five bents. If you go to my website (http://dragonflycanoe.com), you can see some progress photos, and scroll to the bottom to see the bent framing plan. There are five bents, and it will be lofted over for one-half the length.

Looking forward to seeing progress on your project.
Dan

Rooster

Interior staircases take up a lot of needed interior space.  Is there a way you can put a stair case on the outside to access the upstairs?

Rooster
"We talk about creating millions of "shovel ready" jobs, for a society that doesn't really encourage anybody to pick up a shovel." 
Mike Rowe

"Old barns are a reminder of when I was young,
       and new barns are a reminder that I am not so young."
                          Rooster

Brad_bb

Rooster beat me to the stairs comment.  Since you plan living space above, can you have a knee wall like 2 or 3 feet?  It will significantly increased your useable area(head room) upstairs.  If you are height restricted, can you add the knee wall, and change the roof slope to remain within the height restriction?  If you really need all that room, you could do flat roof, or slightly sloped roof  in one direction too.
   To create the knee wall, extend your posts 3 feet up, then mortise your tie beams into the posts and add a shoulder if you can.  Add collar ties to all your rafter pairs, and maybe drop queen posts down on the end bent rafters.  Just a suggestion.
   Just watching some milling vids from over there, spruce seems pretty popular.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Raphael

I'm thinking a flat roof and Sweden aren't really compatible, but a few collar ties could be a good thing especially if adding a knee wall.
... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

TW

In Sweden a 2:3 roof slope would be very traditional. With this slope you can get some knee walls for the same ridge height. Flat roofs are known as rainwater sifts because the water goes straight through after a few winters.
On the other hand the zoning around Stockholm is terribly strict and it may well be that the proportions given are the only allowed.

Pine and spruce would be the species used. The code says that they have equivalent properties for framing and that is mostly true in my oppinion. Spruce has a wee bit lower density for the same strenght and also is a bit more elastic and therefore a wee bit better for beams with long free spans.


Dimensions should be calculated according to the new Nybyggnadsreglerna which are based on Eurocode. Unstamped timber is allowed if you choose a low enough strenght class. For a small building like this no calculations nor structural engineering of any kind should be required if the builder is an experienced carpenter.

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