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Stihl or Husky?

Started by kenskip1, January 25, 2004, 10:48:17 AM

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kenskip1

Two all the wonderful experianced saw operators. I have a question.I currently have 3 Stihl saws. I am pondering weather to purchase a 4th. A Stihl 210, or a Husky 141. I have had excellant luck with Stihl however, I think that I should give Husky a chance. This saw will see light work and nothing severe. Any suggesstion? Which one has the more power or torque? Ken
Stihl The One
Stihl Going Strong
Stihl Looking For The Fountain of Middle Age

WV_hillbilly

  Welcome to the forum kenskip1  .   I'  m not a pro but I I do cut alot of firewood and am just gettin started into logging for timber .  I have run Stihl's for 17 years now and love them This year I traded for a 350 husky and bought a 372 afterwards . Both brands run good so I think If saws are equal HP the  performance is  not  that different . I wouldn 't hesitate to buy either one If the local serviceshop treated me good and did a good job when I needed something.
Hillbilly

oldsaw-addict

I would take a REALLLY good look at both saws and think about which brand has the best customer service in your area. If the stihl tech at the local dealer is willing to show up at like 7AM on a sunday to help get your machines back where they belong, in the cut not the shop, then buy the stihl. But dont expect any tech to actually show up at 7AM on a sunday just to fix one saw for a single person unless hes your best friend on earth. I personally have a Jonsered which is really a Husky in different clothing, and I have 0 complaints about it, besides the lack of a decompression valve. but If the saws are both the same in their engine size, weight and power then you are basically asking the age old ford vs chevy question.The Stihl and Husky saws are both top quality brands.
Let there be saws for all mankind!

Michael_E_Tx

Hi Ken.  I find it hard to imagine that anyone who has 3 Stihl saws is in the market for an MS210, but nevertheless I will give you my candid opinion.  I own a Stihl 021, which I bought for pruning and trimming about ten years ago.  It has served me faithfully, but it is truly a "just barely real" saw.  We moved onto 55 wooded acres last July and now heat with wood.  An 021, or it's Husky equivalent is pretty lightweight, not only weight wise, but task wise.  The worst thing about the 021/210 is that it uses Picco chain.  And it comes with Picco safety chain.  I have since switched to what is called PM in Stihl chain, or low profile/non-safety chain in other brands.  This chain cuts much better, but I would still not recommend this size saw to hardly anybody.  I have moved up to a used 036 for my firewood cutting needs and am extremely happy with it.  I would strongly encourage you to go with something bigger, whether Stihl or Husky, even if you expect to put the saw to only light use.  

SasquatchMan

I didn't see it mentioned yet, so I'll say it - if you have a bunch of Stihls stuff, why wouldn't you keep buying stihl stuff, so you can flip parts around etc...
Senior Member?  That's funny.

Stephen_Wiley

Hi Ken,

Welcome to the Forum

I see by your other post you have a 056, 041 and 028.

These are all older Sithl saws........and are getting harder to buy parts for. So you may want to consider this in a decision to leverage your purchasing dollars.

Michael of East Texas (BTW -welcome Michael) makes a valid point about the size of saws you currently are looking at.

But before you make any decision consider these other factors as well.

With the onset of manufacturers having to begin to think of meeting stricter regulations of exhaust emissions the past 10 years.  Saws now manufactured have less power and more chain speed.

This has created a surge of fellas becoming chainsaw modifiers who will re-modify your new saw to perform better (mainly increasing the exhaust porting). This cost should be included in your thinking of purchasing a new saw and added the price. e.g.  Stihl MS 210 apx. $400 + Modification $200 apx. to include shipping total $600

Chainspeed is great until you put a load on it. Than you will be wondering why your old saws cut better although their speed appeared slower.

If you do choose to go for a small saw in the size of category you are referring. Than may I suggest you look at  Echo, which actually passes the more instrigent 300 hour performance test that neither Stihl or Husky have yet been up to the challenge for in their new series saws (they opt. for the 50 hour test).

Although Stihl, Husky, Ford and Chevy have been known in the past for quality.  About the last 15 years certain models can be explained as junk.

As far as interchanging parts of your Stihls, unless you purchase a saw of the same model, year and series. You probably will not have any luck in interchanging new saw parts with old.

Personally, I would find a saw shop which is not afraid to tell the truth about their current products. Because they will also let you know if they have a good used saw which actually will hold its value longer and their commitment to help you maintain that saw.

With the above Stihl saws keep your eye open for a good used 038, 034, 026 if you can find a PRO series all the better.


" If I were two faced, do you think I would be wearing this one?"   Abe Lincoln

Stan

My little saw is electric, and I like it cause it is very light. Course I can only get about 100 feet from the house with it, cause the generator is too heavy to move.  :-/ I've got a middle sized Husky and a big Stihl, and DanGed if I could tell you which one to buy.  :)
I may have been born on a turnip truck, but I didn't just fall off.

J_T

Just got a MS310 allready had 24'' bar  and chains for it .Dealer is nice to deal with makes a diffrence .Dealer would be my concern not the saw as much .Yes I know 24'' is a lot of bar but it is easer for me to use on large Gum trees and soft wood.
Jim Holloway

jokers

Hi Stephen,

Although the first part of my response is directed at your post, I hope to make you aware that it is nothing personal and I hope not to offend. With that being said...

Power to weight ratios have never been better for chainsaws. Sure EPA emissions standards have caused most modern saws to be significantly detuned from their maximum potential through the use of super restrictive mufflers, but todays saws will, pound for pound outcut saws manufactured prior to 5 - 10 years ago. Horsepower is work performed in a given time and is derived by measuring the torque an engine produces at 5252rpm x a conversion factor to account for what rpm peak torque is made at. So as badly as I`ve probably messed up what I said about figuring horsepower, the new saws haven`t sacrificed "power" for chainspeed. It`s just that the game has changed slightly. When you had an old time, especially gear driven, saw making peak power at 5 -7k rpms, you could run huge clearances on the depth gauges, run less than perfect chain and much larger pitches, and practically stand on the handle bars. You would hog your way through compared to what a saw will do today and you will also work much harder. Kickback was also a much more serious risk with the slower chain speeds, larger pitch, and lower gauges. Through the culmination of several concurrent efforts to make saws safer, lighter, and more productive, we now run smaller chains at higher speeds. Modern saws typically make peak power between 9 and 10k rpm. I`ll run a modern saw of any displacement against any old style(slower and torquier) saw of similar displacement that you have and then we can compare who cut the quickest or the most. I already know which will win, so which saw would we say has the most "power"?

As far as modifying saws goes, I don`t think any self respecting saw builder would work on an MS210 other than opening up the muffler. The bottom end of the 210 probably wouldn`t take the added stress of being modified. Muffler mods will be $50 or less.

You also state that Echo passes the 300 hr test. I recently looked at a few new Echos and the nameplate clearly said they passed the 150 hour test, which is an EPA emissions test by the way, not a true durability test. I will say however that the small Echos are in my experience better built than the smallest Stihls and Huskies. Anything under the 023 for Stihl and the 141 for Husky, but they should be because they also cost more. Echo has always been a solid, quality made saw that is typically not the best performer in any displacement class. They will run forever given even a modicum of care and could very well be the best choice for many people using smaller saws.

You are right about interchangability of parts, not going to happen unless he simple wants to swap bars with other Stihls like the 025 and smaller since they have a different tail pattern than the larger Stihls.

If good dealer support is available locally, the Echos are hard to beat for long term value in a small saw.

Russ

Stephen_Wiley

Hi Russ,

No offense has been taken, my response has simply been made upon my experiences, recent discussions with local saw shop (Their opinions could be tainted) and mostly use of my older equipment.

I don't dispute that "Power to weight ratios have never been better for chainsaws".  We have also stripped down our vehicle motors to allow for emmissions, added computers for peak fuel performances. But ended up with a product that breaks down more frequently and does not have the durability of the older time tested product.

When I presented this in question to the local saw shop; the response came back that even though a change of the 'ratio' was better, the fact remained that the older saws ouput was greater than the final output of the newer saws (giving more torque to get through tougher material).

Now when we talk about modifications on newer saws and performance, I have seen the results on AS site. And I am impressed. However I am also cautiously considering the longevity as I see many of the new saw owners are as well.

No doubt we all want the fastest cutting saw, but some of us also do not want to have to replace it every six months.

Also, my 026 has max of 13k rpm and the 044 has 14k rpm. My older 075 has a max of 16k rpm.  So what older saws are you referring to?  And if new saws are max at 9 - 10k it would considerably make them less in performance.

BTW, standing or hogging on a saw shows a lack of knowledge in saw operation.

Respectfully, I disagree with your 'emphasis of your comment' about 'Kickback'. Kickback occurs with any operating saw and is only minimized with a bow saw.  Kickback occurs when a power driven chain meets a solid object at the drive tip, resulting in a release of power in the opposing direction.  Powerhead, size of chain, have little impact on this principle. The smallest saws still have "horsepower greater than manpower" and those who have ignored this have resulted in serious injury.  

"If good dealer support is available locally, the Echos are hard to beat for long term value in a small saw."

Russ, I agree and will emphasize with anyone reading these posts.  Number one consideration of purchasing any saw is the dealer support in your local area.  Years ago I almost bought a Sachs/Dolmar but the nearest shop was 11/2 hour drive. I did buy a Tanaka and was very impressed (design is similar to Echo) however, waiting for parts took 3 months.
 
To sum up, change and progression is occuring in our world with computers, saws, etc.  IMO, the newer saws are no doubt meeting todays challenges with new technology themselves.  But are following the same path our vehicles have.
 
Since I do not own any newer saws, I determined to talk with my local shop. Resulting with the impression that if I truly wished to replace one of my older saws and get the same factory torque. I would need to modify with a little less performance or move up to a bigger displacement.  

Since they carried both Husky and Stihl, they also pointed out that certain models of each were in their opinion not very good for the money.
 
Further, since the saws will require modifications to meet peak performance (at an additional cost) are we really getting the best product?  Since these flaws are emission driven and then corrected through mods. are we really benefitting the environment ?



" If I were two faced, do you think I would be wearing this one?"   Abe Lincoln

tawilson

I don't know if it counts for much, but when I picked up a used Stihl 039, I was able to go to their website and fill out a form and they sent me an owners manual, no charge. I don't think you will get that with a Husky.
Tom
2017 LT40HDG35 WIDE
BMS250 and BMT250 sharpener/setter
Woodmaster 725

archerR80RT

Not only can you get an owners manual from Husqvarna USA but you can get a parts manual for your model also. I e-mailed them last year for an owners manual and got an e-mail back asking if I wanted a parts manual sent also. :-*

jokers

Hi Stephen,

Maybe I misspoke or didn`t communicate clearly, but my point is that most modern saws, which include the 026 and 044, make peak power between 9-10,000 rpm. That does not mean that their max no-load rpm is limited to this range, in fact the 026 is 14,000 by most accounts of factory spec and the 044 is 13,500. I do know that there is the oddball Stihl factory specification stating that max rpm for the 026 is 13,500 but the current repair manual states 14k. There may be a similar situation with the 044 that I`m not aware of. I`m probably wrong but I thought that max rpm of the 075 was around 12k, but even if 16k is right, it would be the rare exception to the rule regarding the slower revving saws of the past.

I agree that forcing a saw is a sign of poor technique, but many of the older saws would allow you to push them alot more than you will get away with using a newer one and to a degree is required to get the maximum bite. The larger pitch chains with lower depth gauges cut rougher than the smaller pitches used today, and have a tendency to need operator pressure to keep them fully seated in the cut in my opinion.

It`s also my opinion that your local saw shop is probably run by old timers who haven`t kept up with the times and are perfectly content to pass along old wives tales. P/W ratios didn`t improve solely by lowering the weight of the powerheads. Power/displacement ratios are also up as are chainspeeds.. If you`re still not believeing that modern saws cut faster, go to an "Old Home Days" or some similar event where they run the old stuff for show and see just how fast they are. I`m not saying it`s true, but it may be, that the old iron would last for two thousand hours at max speed vs. somewhere around 500 hrs for a modern saw run balls out. That seems pretty incredible until you consider how much timber you put on the ground with either saw in it`s lifetime. Because of the relative lack of old growth, a modern logger has to be alot more productive, as in number of trees processed per shift, to make ends meet.

As far as kickback is concerned, chain speed, chain pitch, raker clearance, and power of the powerhead are important factors. The smaller pitch chains have less space between cutters for anything to make contact in a reactionary way. Couple this with a faster moving chain, where it is increasingly more difficult to insert anything into that smaller space, kickback potential is further reduced. Less clearance on the depth gauges also present a much smaller face to impact anything, especially in the most reactive upper quadrant of the bar tip, and if the saw has the power to drive the chain adequately rather than rebound, the result is obvious though at some point the power can also work against you.

All saws today are detuned due to EPA requirements, not just the smaller ones. We probably shouldn`t even broach the subject of benefitting the environment, but even the detuned saws of today are greater producers than most of the old timers. Are we getting the best product? That`s a very subjective question. We are getting lighter, faster, quieter, smoother(less operator vibration) saws with workable chain brakes. I dunno, what do you think?

Russ


oldsaw-addict

I'll tell you what I think, I think we're moving farther and farther from the primitave things that we once called efficient and closer to the ultimate performance saws. Welcome to the 21st century home of technology and it aint leaving anytime soon.
Let there be saws for all mankind!

DanG

I dunno about all this technical stuff, but I know I like my Echo 670. I took it to the woods the other day, to pick up some logs. Went to buckin' the trees and all those loggers with their Stihls and Huskies were wantin' to know where to get one. Now I've never used a Huskie or Stihl, as I just "graduated" from the Poulan/McCoughalot crowd, but, from what I've seen, the Echo will cut with any of them.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

UNCLEBUCK

I have 2 chainsaws that are both 20 years old , a husky 266xp and a stihl 028 , they were used hard the first five years and now just cutting trees on weekends but both are great saws , the stihl seems to feel better and quieter and less vibration so maybe I look into a big honker stihl to get the job done as I am going to putting my beam machine onto it for ripping . I like more solid feel of the stihl any day though !  just my thoughts ,
UNCLEBUCK    bridge burner/bridge mender

tshanefreeman

There is no doubt that today's performance saw manufacturer's are very similar in their products.  

In my opinion, the greatest difference is the follow-up service that the consumer receives after leaving the store with his/her new saw.  Sure the service always seems great when buying the saw.  The salesman simply sees you as additional commission.  But ask yourself, does their mission to satisfy your needs stand true?  I personally know from experience that downtime is very costly and as a result I am a diehard Stihl user.  Not because they make a far superior saw, but because the local service is better.  Everyone has to understand that no matter what saw you buy, sooner or later it will break down and need servicing.  I like the peace of mind knowing that I am a valued customer and that I will have my saw back within a 24-hour period...............and if the part has to be ordered in, they will give me a saw until mine's fixed.

Perhaps the business looks at me as a business that will buy many more saws in the years to come, therefore, by providing excellent service, they are bettering the chances of having me as a return consumer.  I also may have a biased opinion, for I depend on my equipment to put food on the table and as a result, service is crutial to my success!  Either way, I currently wouldn't switch brands.

The only other benefit that I can think of here is that Stihl's performance saws have dual ring pistons, whereas Husky's have single rings.  This will prolong the life of your saw when used under demanding circumstances.

In response to the debate over whether or not to modify a new saw to get it to its peek performance........................I ask why?  Why would you want to make the saw run faster and hotter, which will inevitably cause it to burn out faster.  If you're going to tweak it out, why not run your gas leaner.........the result is about the same............the saw will heat up sooner and therefore burn out quicker!  These tools are far to expensive to have to replace for no reason.  If you aren't satisfied with the performance of your saw, by a larger model to meet your needs.  This way you will still follow the governmental emission regulations and prolong the life of your saw.  
T. Shane Freeman
Total Landscape Solutions
...Providing Professional Tree Care Services, Landscape Design & Installation, and Turfgrass Management.

...Helping Canadians Preserve Their Investment.

Stephen_Wiley

Hi   Russ,

I did not realize that you were including the 026, 044 as newer saws. Maybe you were referring to the Mac 10-10, 10-20 and others of that era.

I was mainly referring to the new MS series in which Stihl has changed the placement of their ' 0 ' e.g., from  026 to MS260.
 
Although you could bear weight upon the older saws, a sharp chain would pull itself into the wood and I learned early on to resist the desire to push it.

"It`s also my opinion that your local saw shop is probably run by old timers who haven`t kept up with the times and are perfectly content to pass along old wives tales."  

The shop recently changed hands and the new owner in my observations from appearances in his mid thirty's. I would be the old timer ! Go figure !  He was the one who said that the final P/D was less than my current saws for the same equivalent
(026 vs.ms260) Maybe he had not stopped to think about the difference till asked........... How they perform in difficult circumstances compared to higher torque older saws was my original question. ???

I`m not saying it`s true, but it may be, that the old iron would last for two thousand hours at max speed vs. somewhere around 500 hrs for a modern saw run balls out.That seems pretty incredible until you consider how much timber you put on the ground with either saw in it`s lifetime.

Russ, I am not trying to pin you down to a specific answer here as the newer saws have not yet worn as long. I am just pointing out their potential to wear quicker.  Besides with your above example an older saw lasting 4 to 1 times longer than a new saw. Than it would appear to cut as much wood if not more even if the newer saw cut twice as fast.  

The point that you make that the newer saws are faster is all you need to confirm.
"........ the result is obvious though at some point the power can also work against you."

Concerning 'kickback'  my last response was to diminsh what I thought might be a misleading ad campaign for the improvement of new saws. Your first post made it sound as if  kickback was not possible. This concerned me........., first I acknowledge that your points of chain speed, size of chain will reduce kickback tendencies. Many homeowner lowkickback chains have been produced for years.  My emphasis is that even with these added reductions it can still occur.  As you  have also acknowledged in your above quote.

Russ, I have not had any of my saws modded. I believe you have would you mind sharing the cost above the price of the saw? What was done (porting, to........).

I do suspect that the technology being used for new saws will  be improved upon and will make them ultimately the better product.

So as we go through a transitional time.........some older saws will still out perform the endurance of newer models. They soon will be to expensive to repair.

And concerning your comment of the changing logger's production.  I believe Echo saw this coming before Stihl and Husky.  Their smaller saws are nearing the quality of the two majors.  I remember when McCullogh was a hard saw to beat. Now I don't even own one.

What do I think? hmmmmmmm.........it would be nice in the interest of research if someone wanted to donate some new saws for me to work out .......say for the next 10 years. !   :D
" If I were two faced, do you think I would be wearing this one?"   Abe Lincoln

Stephen_Wiley

QuoteI dunno about all this technical stuff, but I know I like my Echo 670. I took it to the woods the other day, to pick up some logs. Went to buckin' the trees and all those loggers with their Stihls and Huskies were wantin' to know where to get one. Now I've never used a Huskie or Stihl, as I just "graduated" from the Poulan/McCoughalot crowd, but, from what I've seen, the Echo will cut with any of them.

DanG,

Great, I have been hoping someone would post about a 670. I have yet to run one. Currently, a local shop has a brand new one $200 off the regurlar price. I asked why so much.......claim it is their promotional sale.

Many loggers have gone to using this model and report favor with it.  Don't know that it has caught the attention of the sawracers yet though.
 
66.7 cc, puts it between an Stihl 039 and 044
13.2 lbs.

Anyone else have any knowledge concerning this model?
" If I were two faced, do you think I would be wearing this one?"   Abe Lincoln

jokers

Hi Stephen,

The obvious answer is that not everyone can be as smart as you and I, so the poor guy in the saw shop is probably just average, LOL. Thanks for the thoughtful discourse. BTW, I am just kidding about me being smart.

Another poster at arboristsite who seems to me to have a logical perspective, bought a new Echo 670 in the past year or so. he reports that although it will not cut with his 372 or 044s that he has cut with, he didn`t feel it was far behind and the quality is rock solid.

FWIW, I switched from a Stihl 041AV in the about 1980 to an Echo 750EVL. I then bought and ran other Echos including the 500VL, 60S, and 650EVL, all great saws. I kept the 500VL until about 1995 when parts were becoming hard to get.

The two biggest hinderances to Echo making it big are the spotty "good" dealer network and the negative relationship between the yen and US dollar. Doesn`t the 670 retail for about $700? That puts it in a bad spot when competing with saws like the MS440 and 372XP which can be had for under $600. If you can buy one for $200 off list, how can you go wrong?

Russ

Stephen_Wiley

Hi Russ,

Me smart ? ........no, spent to much time doing other things. That is why I still ask questions.

Thanks for the Echo info, to date I have only owned their 3450 and  3400.  This was due to Stihl overpricing their 020 about 20 years ago. I needed to find a small climbing saw which performed well and that I could give my crew and not be concerned about the cost of replacement when they 'dropped' them out of trees.

When I first bought my Echo 3400 series their were not many local carriers. Now they are a plentiful if not more so than Stihl and Husky.  Stihl is still local dealership only, whereas I see Husky is at Lowe's, Home Depot and other stores as well.

I believe the list price on the Echo 670 I looked at was $675. The shop owner said the promotion was nationwide. Might check your area to see if the same is true.

".......when parts were becoming hard to get."

That has always made the difference in the saws that I purchase, regardless of performance. Sold some nice performing saws for that reason alone.
 
" If I were two faced, do you think I would be wearing this one?"   Abe Lincoln

AtLast

Stihl all the way....EVERY Husky I have used falls apart.....screws vibe loose....bar bolts vibe loose.....wont start or darn hard to start....I personally do not plan on buying or using a Husy any time soon.

UNCLEBUCK

I have had every bolt vibrate loose on the husky through the years especially the mufflers but after 20 years I guess thats a given , on the stihl I have not had one thing come loose and it so nice to use and less vibration . The local tree trimming service has been a stihl dealer forever and they employ about 20 full time employees so they must be happy with stihl too!
UNCLEBUCK    bridge burner/bridge mender

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