help --- newly planted emerald arbor vitae trees are dying

[hydrangea2011]

I'm really sad now, since the 25 arbor vitae trees we newly planted in early Spring are turning brown inside out; and the situation is getting worse week after week.  All the trees are bought from Costco and we diligently watered them once a week based on the soil moisture level.  I live in Philadelphia and we had a cruel summer this year and then a heavy rainfall  during the hurricane period.  pls help me figure out whether or not the trees are dying and what we should do to prevent them from turning brown.

[WDH]

You can tell if the trees are dead by making a small scratch on the bark.  If the inner bark is brown and dry all the way and into the solid wood, they are dead.  Do the scratch test on a live limb (one that is still green) to see what the inner bark looks like in a live tree and use that as a reference and a guide to compare the ones that you are concerned about.

I really cannot help you determine why they be dying as there could be a host of reasons.

[WDH]

You have to set up a Photo Gallery and upload the pictures to your Gallery.  You cannot post pictures from other sites until you put them in your Gallery.  Here is a link on how to do it.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,23851.0.html

[hydrangea2011]

You have to set up a Photo Gallery and upload the pictures to your Gallery.  You cannot post pictures from other sites until you put them in your Gallery.  Here is a link on how to do it.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,23851.0.html

i tried many times to shrink my pictures, and then upload them to the forum gallery.  never succeeded. 

[WDH]

You can do it.  Just read the tutorial and follow the directions.  It would be worth the time because there may be someone here that can diagnose your arbor vitae problem.

[hydrangea2011]

i tried to shrink the photos again, but with 120K resolution limit, there is no way for me to upload a picture big enough for analyzing

[Jeff]

The java uploader will resize them for you. Clearly you did not take the time to watch the video tutorial. if you can't put the photos here by taking the time to learn how to do it, then You are out of luck. I'm now being blunt because after being told about the rule, you insist on trying to find a way to circumvent it.

[hydrangea2011]

The java uploader will resize them for you. Clearly you did not take the time to watch the video tutorial. if you can't put the photos here by taking the time to learn how to do it, then You are out of luck. I'm now being blunt because after being told about the rule, you insist on trying to find a way to circumvent it.

I'm a newbie here, very very sorry for violating the rules, I've deleted previous reply and finally uploaded two small ones to my gallery, hope someone here could help me out.  Many thanks

[Jeff]

Basically what you have is a cedar. it looks completely normal to me for this time of year. I just went out to the edge of the yard and snapped some photos of a mature healthy cedar in the dark.  

[Jeff]

Keep them watered, and keep the neighborhood dogs away from them!  Dog pee is bad for them.  If you are in an area where you get freezing winters, mulch around the bootom of the trees, and if you have rabbits or deer, they think they are candy bars.

[hydrangea2011]

Keep them watered, and keep the neighborhood dogs away from them!  Dog pee is bad for them.  If you are in an area where you get freezing winters, mulch around the bootom of the trees, and if you have rabbits or deer, they think they are candy bars.

thanks so much for the quick reply ;)
so arbor vitae is a type of cedar? pls correct me if I'm wrong.
Isn't emerald arbor vitae evergreen and never turns brown when weather gets cold?  Will the newly planted ones survive in the snowy northeast US?  Should I water them more often in the fall before the first snow attacks?


uploaded a new pic here:

[Jeff]

They are evergreen, but evergreen does not mean that the tree will not shed or not have some seasonal die back of some needles/leaves/foliage. I think the die back you have there looks typical of the trees we have.  The trees will do well in the northeast.  I would not water the trees anymore now.  Just try to protect them from the critters and look for the new growth in the spring.

[hydrangea2011]

They are evergreen, but evergreen does not mean that the tree will not shed or not have some seasonal die back of some needles/leaves/foliage. I think the die back you have there looks typical of the trees we have.  The trees will do well in the northeast.  I would not water the trees anymore now.  Just try to protect them from the critters and look for the new growth in the spring.

The leaves/needles around the tree trunk is all brown now, hope they don't shed too much or get worsened.  I went to Homedepot this morning, a guy from customer service recommended some miracle gro nutrient sticks to me.  So after I got back home, I digged hole and inserted them in the areas between the trees.  Do you think that will do them any better?

[SwampDonkey]

Did you keep the tags from the trees? Arbor vitae is usually eastern white cedar or western red and are Thuja species. I believe yours to be western red, just from what I could Google quickly.

Some of the trouble could be hotter climate in your area, the trees may be burning up. I can't say that for certain, but there is a reason they are northern tree. Adding fertilizer reduces PH and too much can burn them, not what you want. Newly planted trees are not usually fertilized for a season or two. I would be more inclined to add lime in the fall of the year (like now) to get PH up. Also, planting and handling has a big impact. Trees in containers have higher survivability, since roots are not subject to drying out if kept watered, where as burlaped bare roots that are sitting in mulch can loose a lot of finer feeding roots because they dry out quickly. You can also get an air pocket in the planting spot that dries out and kills roots by not filling the hole and firming it up around the roots. You do not want to compact the soil too much or plant too deep, this can smother the roots. It appears that you may have some combination of these where the trees have not been able to grow enough new roots in their new home to take up enough water to keep the foliage from burning up.

I think a lot of the brown you see in Jeff's images are from the cones. At least I see a lot of ripe cones on his tree. ;)

[WDH]

Needles on an evergreen tree, like these cedars, only live for a couple of years, then they die and are replaced with new needles.  This is a natural process.  What you have to looks like for the most part the normal Fall needle cast where the older needles have reached the end of their life.  Totally natural.  I did see a branch or two that look like that it had died, but most of the needles looked normal. 

Sit tight, protect them like Jeff said, and check them again next Spring.  You are likely OK.

[Roxie]

Hello Hydrangea and welcome to the forum!  I hope that you will stick around, there is so much you can learn here.  

I'm from the Philadelphia area (Chester County) and you should put that hose away for the winter.  The ground is completely saturated in our area.  I'm in complete agreement with Jeff and WDH on the normalcy of the condition of your arbor vitae and methinks that the Home Depot guy just wanted to sell your something to "fix" the problem.  

If the appearance of those brown spots bothers you, put on some work gloves and you can run your hand down the limbs to gently pull them off.  Don't be afraid to prune out the dead limbs.  As long as they have mulch around them, they should winter just fine.  

[hydrangea2011]

Needles on an evergreen tree, like these cedars, only live for a couple of years, then they die and are replaced with new needles.  This is a natural process.  What you have to looks like for the most part the normal Fall needle cast where the older needles have reached the end of their life.  Totally natural.  I did see a branch or two that look like that it had died, but most of the needles looked normal. 

Sit tight, protect them like Jeff said, and check them again next Spring.  You are likely OK.

Thanks a lot, what a big relief, originally i thought they were dying

[hydrangea2011]

Hello Hydrangea and welcome to the forum!  I hope that you will stick around, there is so much you can learn here.  

I'm from the Philadelphia area (Chester County) and you should put that hose away for the winter.  The ground is completely saturated in our area.  I'm in complete agreement with Jeff and WDH on the normalcy of the condition of your arbor vitae and methinks that the Home Depot guy just wanted to sell your something to "fix" the problem.  

If the appearance of those brown spots bothers you, put on some work gloves and you can run your hand down the limbs to gently pull them off.  Don't be afraid to prune out the dead limbs.  As long as they have mulch around them, they should winter just fine.  

hi dear, thank you very much, I'm from delaware county, new to the area, moved from Florida 2 years ago, lol.  what a big difference.  I'll wait until Spring, hopefully to see some new leaves coming out by that time.

I'll probably get the nutrients sticks out and put some mulch instead

[SwampDonkey]

Keep in mind that cedar needles are scale like and somewhat different than fir, spruce or pine needles. Love the smell of our native fir, cedar and spruce bows this time of year.

[hydrangea2011]

Did you keep the tags from the trees? Arbor vitae is usually eastern white cedar or western red and are Thuja species. I believe yours to be western red, just from what I could Google quickly.

Some of the trouble could be hotter climate in your area, the trees may be burning up. I can't say that for certain, but there is a reason they are northern tree. Adding fertilizer reduces PH and too much can burn them, not what you want. Newly planted trees are not usually fertilized for a season or two. I would be more inclined to add lime in the fall of the year (like now) to get PH up. Also, planting and handling has a big impact. Trees in containers have higher survivability, since roots are not subject to drying out if kept watered, where as burlaped bare roots that are sitting in mulch can loose a lot of finer feeding roots because they dry out quickly. You can also get an air pocket in the planting spot that dries out and kills roots by not filling the hole and firming it up around the roots. You do not want to compact the soil too much or plant too deep, this can smother the roots. It appears that you may have some combination of these where the trees have not been able to grow enough new roots in their new home to take up enough water to keep the foliage from burning up.

I think a lot of the brown you see in Jeff's images are from the cones. At least I see a lot of ripe cones on his tree. ;)

Wow, so much information here, I think one thing I'll definitely do is buy some mulch to help the trees survive their first winter.  They were bought and planted in early Spring, all of them were about 6 feet, the width/diameter decreases a bit due the foliage/browning leaves.  since you said adding lime to get the pH up, should I then keep the miracle gro nutrient sticks in the soil or take them out? or just leave them in for a week, then take out?

[WDH]

I would leave them in as they are slow release.  That is a gentle way to fertilize versus throwing out big handfuls of bagged fertilizer.  Sometimes, too much of a good thing is not a good thing, and too much fertilizer is worse than too little.  Moderation is the key.

The nutrient sticks will be OK unless you put out a whack (a Forestry Forum term that means a "very large amount or quantity").

[Roxie]

Well now, if you moved up from Florida 2 years ago, that means you got a real indoctrination into a Northeast winter last year.  Having survived that moves you from rookie to professional northerner.  Congratulations (I think)!   :D

Like the guys suggested, you can just mulch in those sticks with the trees and they'll be fine. 

[SwampDonkey]

We had a couple families of southerners come up to the far northeast and after the first winter I saw for sale signs. :D ;)

[WDH]

Some Southerners (the ones who stay down here  ;D) are smarter than other Southerners  . 

[JHBC]

Hi, you've got lots of info already, but my cedar hedge has gone through spells like that.  Your's doesn't look too bad, those brown part are dead, and you can prune them off, but it's nothing to worry about unless the whole tree starts turning.  My problem was: not enough water during the summer, and I found working in some natural types of fert. like leaf mulch, bone meal, fish meal etc.  helped a lot.