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how much time do your customers waste

Started by spencerhenry, October 17, 2011, 08:40:43 AM

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spencerhenry

as i sat waiting for a customer yesterday (sunday), i wondered how much time i waste each week waiting for customers that either forget their appointment, blow me off, or disregard the directions and get lost. yesterday's customer was wanting me to mill him some slab siding, but his primary requirement was that it be cheap. a few weeks ago i told him that i was too busy at the time. last week he called again and i gave him a high price, hoping he would not want to do it. instead he says i dont have to make "perfect" slabs, that they can be inconsistent and irregular. he wanted to come up and see what i had and we agreed on 11:00 sunday. i asked him if he still had the directions i had given him a few weeks back, he said he was sure he could find my place. at 12:06 i left and locked the gate, i had not heard from him and i had a full load in the truck that needed to get delivered. apparently i passed him on the way toward town. it appears that he had decided to blow off the directions i had given him and put my street into his gps and follow that. the problem is that i am on buckpoint DRIVE, and the gps units directs everyone to buckpoint ROAD, about 7 miles from my place. when i got down to cell reception, i had a garble message from someone asking for a street number and a call back, i assumed it was him and called him. he had finally found my place but his phone didnt work there and the call was dropped.
i dont ever want to away customers but the amount of wood he wanted to buy was quite minimal and after waiting for over an hour on a sunday i decided i had wasted enough time and went about my other business.
on saturday i had reschedule my entire day, coming out of the wood early to meet a customer who wanted to buy 6 cords of wood, after waiting around for a couple hours, it became apparent that he had blown me off. i had received calls from him periodically telling me that he was on his way. so he wasted at least a couple hours of my time and prevented me from getting to the bank on saturday morning.
i get 3 or 4 customers per month that either just dont show up, or show up an hour or more late. the one milling customer does it on a regular basis so i finally told him that his time starts when he is supposed to get there, not when he actually does. the next day he was 20 minutes late. sometimes i wonder if i need to have a minimum for people coming to pick up lumber, like a couple hundred bucks. these days it seems like the average customer requires 4 to 6 phone calls, 1/2 hour or more when they get here, they show up late, and then buy $40 worth of lumber. the amount of time i have into making the sale is more than i get for the wood.
i try to work while waiting for people, but on saturdays and sundays i cant mill or process firewood, the neighbors have already pitched a fit about the noise and i have promised the county people that i wont work outside of business hours on anything other than my own personal projects.
what does everyone else do about small customers that take lots of time.

r.man

Customers are the same no matter what the business. In general I won't meet a customer unless they are at the site and have called to confirm or I am someplace where I can do something productive. In general that means at my house which is not the ideal because then they know where to look for me without an appointment. Lots of times I get time wasted but I try to minimize it by not waiting around for people and I would never cut a paying job short for someone else's convenience. My general rule is that if you are doing me a favour then I make it convenient for you and vice versa.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

Chuck White

I think my biggest time waster is a customer who likes to visit like he hasn't seen anyone in a month or so!  ;D

Sometimes I just have to restart the mill in-between comments and go about sawing, otherwise I wouldn't get much done that day.  :D

But in all honesty though, I do have some great customers.  8)

I don't think I could take waiting for a customer and they never show up, but keep calling, etc. >:(
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Kansas

We kind of negated these kinds of problems by getting bigger. Went in Sunday morning to fire up the heat treatment chamber and discovered a total of 6 employees there. A couple of guys have kids on the way, one has fines to pay. They want the overtime. Not sure its in the best interest of the company as far as the bottom line is concerned, but thats a pretty subjective thing. But people pretty well know that someone is there 7 days a week anymore.

Spencer, I remember you talking about your problems with neighbors. I don't remember if this question was asked. Is moving to a more rural area, or to an industrial area, possible? I don't know about Colorado, but I know from personal experience in Kansas, just mention to the government types that you need to expand and hire a few employees, and they will stand in line to offer help.

redbeard

I treat the 40.00 customers just like the 400.00 ones. Any customer is my best advertisement. You have to keep the positive image going. Those of us that survive this down turn era will prosper later if things come back to what ever normal will be.
Whidbey Woodworks and Custom Milling  2019 Cooks AC 3662T High production band mill and a Hud-son 60 Diesel wide cut bandmill  JD 2240 50hp Tractor with 145 loader IR 1044 all terrain fork lift  Cooks sharp

Kansas

Very good point. I have had someone walk in, ask a ton of questions, buy one board.. A week later they come in and get several hundred board feet.

Cedarman

I have the advatage or disadvantage of living 150 yds from the business.  Customers can come at any time after 3:30 if they call ahead.  From 7:00AM to 3:30 then can just show up and we will load them up.  We discourage walk ins as it disrupts our schedule.  But if they are pickingup an order, then we can do it efficiently. I tell them I will be at the mill or at home.  If I know I will be gone or might be gone and no one is around, then we don't schedule them.  Guy came Sunday at 4:30 to pick up about $1000 worth of wood.  i was around.  Spent too much time talking, but that was part of the fun and it was Sunday anyway.
For long winded customers that you do not have time to talk to, you must develop the technique of leaving in a graceful manner.  Just saying, "I would love to talk, but I have to ..."  Most people understand and away they go. 
When asked what is the smallest order that we take, I tell them  " One board, if we cut it in two, then it is 2 boards"  Most think it is funny and have a good laugh.
It does make for good advertisement.

I could not live in an area where I was constrained by bad neighbors.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

terrifictimbersllc

What to do when you're working hourly for a customer, on a busy road, and one after another potential customers stop to talk?   I give them a card, 1-2 minutes of serious attention, then tell them as far as I'm concerned they are welcome to watch, but act very busy afterwards.   Then I keep track of the time and subtract this and a little more from the charged time.  Also try to refer them to my existing customer if "what are you going to do with the wood, etc:", comes up.  But while generally positive it still has some awkward points. 
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Bibbyman

I asked Mary (the ol'fart magnet) if she wanted to answer this one and read her the title.  She says, "Who's time?  Mine or theirs?".

We're not plagued by long winded visitors as much lately.  Since I've been here full time I just keep on working or quickly go back to work.  Mary keeps them entertained.   I think when they see me working and making noise and making them move when I try to run over them with the loader, they think maybe they could go loiter someplace else.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

beenthere

This reminds me of years ago when I moved to the country. I had some welding to be done, and was told a neighbor farmer was good at it. Stopped by there and he was a great welder, and engaged in a lot of conversation. Just hard to get away. Heard from another neighbor farmer that he stopped there to get some welding done and when finished and paid up, turned to leave. The elder farmer said "if you don't have time to talk, then get your welding done somewhere else".  Message was clear that he provided a welding service because he enjoyed having the company of his friends and neighbors stopping by.  :)

Guessing if no customers stopped to take your time, the business would suffer some. ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

zopi

Sigh...and I just cleaned a lady's satellite dish off the roof with a tree branch...stupid hinge broke....I hate bradford pear...sotta go make her happy now.
Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

Coon

zopi, was it a home run or did you fowl out.   ;)   :D 

I like to keep my mill hidden from any amount of traffic.  It just keeps me from being held up from productivity.  When someone does show up, I give them about 5 minutes of quick conversation then get back to work.  If they hang around they better either be helping out or keep the heck out of my way.  I have only done a couple of different custom jobs and have had one incident where an old timer was holding up productivity even though I kept on sawing.  I finally told him that he had to leave or I would send him a bill for my time.  Took him a while to get the hint before he left my jobsite.  He was arrogant and ignorant about me being there sawing for some reason to begin with.  He even brought out a tape measure and started measuring the boards as if they were his. My customer, the landowner, told the guy if he didn't put that tape measure away that he would cram it up his backside so far that he would never leave home without it again.  :D  The guy was just a plain old pain in the ash and one of the local snoops with nothing better to do. 

Norwood Lumbermate 2000 w/Kohler,
Husqvarna, Stihl and, Jonsereds Saws

red oaks lumber

weekends or after hours i make it clear with the customer i'll wait 15 minutes after that see ya later. i tell them my time is very important , so keeping a date should be very important to them. i have had 1 no show in 15 yrs.
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

spencerhenry

i live about 1/2 hour off the highway, so people really dont want to come out unless they know i am home. i dont mind talking with customers, a good relationship really helps out business. it is just that at this time of year i am super busy with firewood deliveries, hunting, and getting stuff cleaned up and ready for snow. firewood customers are usually the worst, they call and ask a dozen questions, i try to educate them, but then they hang up and call someone who promises them the moon. i dont give out my street address because people these days want to put it into their gps, or google it, that will give them the wrong location 99% of the time. instead i give them clear, concise and accurate directions, some choose to ignore the directions and when they get lost for an hour i have to wait. sometimes i can just cut more logs, move more sawdust, or keep busy doing something, but when i have firewood deliveries 7 days a week sometimes 2 or 3 per day, i cant wait around for an hour or more.

i was just telling myself today that you never know when a customer might turn into a GOOD customer. well, the guy who finally made it here after i left on sunday just ordered 1300 bdft of 1x6, and will buy all the slabs at the same price per piece as the 1x. and i dont even have to sticker the stuff! just goes to show that you never can tell. i am not the most patient person, in fact a lot of people think i am a pain in the butt to deal with, but they also know that i am honest, fair, and always try to produce the best product as fast as possible.
probably 80% of firewood customers come back the next year.

WDH

My house # is not in order on the county road that I live on, and I live 1/2 mile from the county road.  It is amazing how many people these days cannot function without a GPS.  Of course, it always takes them to the wrong place and then they have to call (sometimes a couple of times) to find their way here. 

I am like Spencer....they could have listened to the directions that I gave, but that is hard to do for the Device Dependent.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Buck

Customers take time. I find it annoying from time to time but usually the time spent pays off. Zopi....I too hate Bradford pear. Cute little junk trees that grow into something worthless like a tallow.
Respect is earned. Honesty is appreciated. Trust is gained. Loyalty is returned.

Live....like someone left the gate open

WDH

Oh no, the hated tallow.  South Louisiana is being overrun by tallow.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Magicman

Us too.  Folks here call them "popcorn trees".  They show a lot of color in the Fall, but multiply like pigs.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

zopi

Brad pear at least males nice turning blocks...especially the root burl....here it is the ailacanthus...or tree of heaven...hate those...the crabgrass of the tree world...lol...they make pulp and biofuel quickly though...
Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

UpInATree

I'd love to talk, but need to get this project finished has always worked well for me on whatever task I was being held back from.  For those of us who are in GPS troubled areas complicated by poor cell phone reception...I suggest that you take your own GPS and ask it for your present location when you are physically at your driveway.  It may give you an address that seems ridiculous, but it will be reliably accurate for the "Device Dependent."  I have travelled a lot to customers in 12 states and used this technique for myself after being confounded by the GPS.  Once I get to where I am supposed to be, I log the location regardless of the mailing address.  It works great.   Personally I never get lost because everyone is always telling me where to go. ;D
Wood-mizer LT70HD D55 Wireless, Wood-Mizer ED-26, A whole bunch of Stihls. Alaskan Mill 74",  Bucket Truck, Log Truck, Chippers, trailers, dump trucks,   Kubota M9540, L3010D and B7510. Cord King.   Learning Timberframing under Jim Rogers

Rando

More than half of my business is made up of weekend people from NYC. I can only get together with them Saturday or Sunday. As much as I'd like to see them about 7 in the morning and have my day free, that's not how it happens. Usually it's 11 in the morning or later when they can see me.
Do I consider them wasting my time? No, they pay all my bills and deserve my attention.
Or, I send my partner!

Brucer

I spent an hour with a guy, only to have him buy 3 boards. Next day his neighbour comes and buys 2 lifts of boards, loads them himself, hands me a cheque, and leaves -- all in all about 5 minutes of my times spent.

I spent two hours with the husband of an old classmate. He wanted my advice on the wood, wanted my advice on how to install it (I ain't a contractor), wanted this and that. All for 2 - 16' 2x8's. The next year he sent one of his old classmates to see me -- 25,000 BF of big timbers, 33% cash in advance plus progress payments. The guy saw the 2x8's I'd cut for his buddy and liked the quality.

I have a regular customer who cannot plan ahead. He buys one or two boards, wants to pay cash, and never has the right change. Then he comes back to buy another couple of boards. Then he comes back again.

I have a regular customer who's a contractor. He comes in with a cut list, asks how long my backlog is, and tells me to call him when it's ready. When I call him he asks for the price. When he shows up to get the order (on time) he has a cheque for me.

I have a "customer" who never buys anything. He comes buy every couple of months, asks for a quote, and never actually buys anything. He just wants an excuse to talk. Visit before last, a week later someone comes looking for board-and-batten siding -- he'd heard about it from my non-customer.

The bottom line is ... it usually averages out.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Cedarman

They say that 1/2 of your advertising money is wasted.  When you spend it, you don't know which 1/2.  Like Brucer says, it averages out.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

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