Boring cut questions

[thecfarm]

How are you getting the wood out? I myself like my stumps low so I can drive over them. I cut my brush up about 2-3 feet long. Most times I cut it short while it still on the tree. This way it gets on the ground and will rot faster so I can drive through it without any damage to my tractor, or I hope there is no damage.

[joejkd]

This tree is about 50 ft. from the treeline bordering my side-front yard, so I get these one's out by hand.

I will definitely practice cutting close to the ground. In fact, I will probably practice on this stump.

The bore was on the correct plane vertically, but was not parallel to the hinge, so next time I plan on making some scuffs in the dirt with my feet when I have the saw lined up with the hinge, move to the back, start my bore, then when I go to push in move my feet back to the scuff marks. Should help punch it in parrallel.

I didn't realize the final cut was too thick? The tree went right over after 3 taps on the wedge. I used my handheld 4 pound sledge, so I didn't really have to put much oomph into it either. The close end of the saw was probably too high now that I take another look at the stump, but near where the cuts overlap was only about a 1/4 inch apart.

How would you all have done it differently?

On an entirely different note: I'm having trouble with splitting some big rounds from my father's maple I cut down for him after hurricane Irene. I'm using an 8# maul and have a 4lb. splitting wedge. (the wedgeis nigh useless.)

I'm usually pretty decent with the maul, but it seems anything over 12" tall and 10" wide will not pop with the maul. The maul gets stuck constantly and I can't seem to start a crack. The wedge generally won't budge from a pretty vigorous overhead swing.

I only weigh 150lbs. but I'm quite physically fit, so when I say I'm swinging that maul I am SWINGING it!

I was thinking about buying a Fiskars splitting axe or a monster maul, but I'd rather get it done with what I have.

[Kevin]

For bore cutting it would have looked like this picture

The last cut would have just taken out the little strap in the back.
On a small tree like that you can cut on the same plane as the bore.

I don't split much wood but it sounds like your dads maple might be soft if the maul is getting stuck in the wood.
Are you splitting on a hard surface and not the bare ground?
Do you know anyone with a gas splitter?
Maybe your dad will give you the money to rent a splitter for the tough ones.

[thecfarm]

I split ALOT of wood with a sledge hammer and 3-4 iron wedges growing up.Are you saying the wedges won't go into the wood,maybe they kinda bounce out when you try to drive them into the wood? I use to have to just tap the wedge into the wood,maybe 4-5 times,than when it starts to go in hit it a little harder,little harder again and than hit like you normally would. If the wedge is not ready to go into the wood it will just bounce back out. Just start over again and give it another try.Also if the wood is starting to dry look for a crack. Start the wedge there,it will make it alot easier to open up.I had 3 brothers and we would split our winter wood and my grandmothers too. I would like to have a nickel every time I swung that sledge hammer.

[Weekend_Sawyer]

I can't help with the tree felling but I know alot about splitting.

If you try and split along a natural crack in the wood it will split easier.
I also take my maul and try to draw a line across the wood with multiple swings, walking it forward so that the top of the first strike is the bottom of the second, this usually works. You can usually hear the wood starting to give way. each  strike will sound more and more hollow.

If that doesn't do it then you need multiple wedges and use the previous line and drive 2 or 3 wedges in at the same time. If they want to bounce out just tap them in easy. If that doesn't do it and you don't have a log splitter then it goes back to nature for the bugs to eat!

Jon

[beenthere]

Couple "tricks" that worked for me....
When the wedge bounced out, I'd pick it up with a small bit of dirt on the tip and restart it in the same spot. Most often then would hold.

If the piece was so knarly to not be split, would grab the chainsaw and make a kerf. That would give plenty of depth to keep the wedge in place (and sometimes would complete the saw cut and not even use the wedge and/or maul).

Now the trick is the wood splitter. ;)  Works better for me.

[joejkd]

Kevin: That's the cut I was going for. Saw it referenced on a video on youtube called "Danish Pie Cut." Looked like exactly what you have there, except he sawed the backstrap off 1/2 below the bore slot. I'm going to practice it on the stump this weekend and try it again, looks like if you get the bore down pat it's a faster more forgiving cut than the 1/4 cut. Does it work for bigger stuff? I've got a 18" DBH oak with a slight back lean deep in the woods that's begging to go in my woodstove next year.

As far as the wedge problem is concerned....I have no trouble starting the wedge. I can seat it pretty well with my 4lb. sledge. I then take the maul to it. The wedge doesn't pop out, it just doesn't sink into the wood!! I think I got crap wedges (I paid $5 for them made by luddell) it looks like the taper is too fast so it's essentially like trying to split a log with a hammer. Maybe a thinner, longer wedge might help?

[John Mc]

Joejkd -

The first thing to getting good penetration with a maul or wedge is to make SURE the round you are splitting is sitting on a solid base. If the ground is wet or soft, it will often absorb a good bit of the blow. Putting it on a splitting block (I use an old 12" diameter Oak round) can help, but even then, the splitting block should not be on soft, spongy ground.

An old-time once told me to "Pick a spot on the top end of the log to aim for, but swing for the bottom every time." After that advice, I noticed how I had been easing up at the end of the swing. If you watch some people splitting, you can see how they are tensing up just before impact, almost as if they are trying to stop the swing (sort of anticipating where it will stop).

A huge, monster-sized maul was not all that effective for me. Within reasonable limits, velocity of the swing and accuracy is more important than having an ultra heavy maul or sledgehammer, as far as efficient splitting is concerned. Even if you are fit, it can be counter-productive to try to swing a 10+ pound maul, unless you are very strong (I'm not). If the size you can get good control and speed with is 6 pounds, then go with that.

Especially on large rounds, don't start out aiming for the exact center. Try to start the split near the edge, and then work your way across. On really large rounds, you may want to try splitting "flakes" off the outside of the log (splitting more or less parallel to the rings,rather than splitting along a radius into the center). After you've knocked it down to size, then go for splitting it in two.

As others have mentioned, starting in a crack or check that is already there can help.

www.woodheat.org is a good resource for woodburning and splitting tips. Here is one of their pages on woodsplitting techniques: www.woodheat.org/split-wood.html

[beenthere]

.......
deleted...was referencing the wrong wedge usage here. Reading too fast and thought we were still on the subject. 

[joejkd]

Hmmmm....so what do I use then on these rounds? I can start a kerf (slot? not sure of the proper term) with the maul that I seat the wedge in, but I need to bust the rest open somehow. I though that was the purpose of the wedge?

If I could sever it further with the maul, I'd just keep whacking it with the maul.  ???

[John Mc]

Beenthere -

In reply #58, it sounds as though you are talking about using a wedge to fell a tree. I believe in this instance, joejkd is talking about splitting wood with wedges.

[Kevin]

it's a faster more forgiving cut than the 1/4 cut. Does it work for bigger stuff?

I usually just bore heavy head leaners.
That's where you want to cut below the bore because there is so much weight pulling on the back strap that the strap can break prematurely below the bar trapping the saw and taking it out of your hands if you are quick enough to let go of it.
What are you calling "the 1/4 cut"?
An 18" tree isn't what I would refer to as large but it might be large for the area you are cutting in and when I'm trying to describe what I would do we might not be talking about the same scenario.
When boring a smaller tree you run out of wiggle room pretty fast.

[Ianab]

How would you all have done it differently?

Wouldn't have bore cut it at all, unless I was just looking to get in some practice.

I would have done that with conventional scarf and back cut, with a plastic wedge inserted as soon as I had the depth, in case it settled back and pinched the bar.

Like Kevin says, I save bore cutting for trees with heavy front lean. Then the technique lets you get the hinge wood set up correctly, before the tree is anywhere close to falling. Work forward to the hinge line, then back to leave the holding strap. Then check your escape route, and snip through the holding wood, and take some large steps the heck out of the way   :D

But this is the sort of tree we are often felling


Looking at the stump from the other side, with some notes added. You can see how the heavy lean tore out the holding wood before it was cut right through, that's why you are making the cut a little below the main one. The back side of the tree lifts away from the saw cleanly.


Side view of the tree with a minimal scarf cut. Because of the heavy lean, it only needs to be deep enough to form a hinge, once it closes up, the tree is well and truly committed to falling. Notch wasn't perfect, But I'm cutting it at head height on that side of the tree, while the cut was 6" off the ground in the uphill side. :


Trying to drop that sort of tree with a conventional back cut will probably result in the whole tree "barber chairing", splitting in 1/2 and possibly dropping on your head.

But learning to bore cut is still a very good idea, there are certain times when it can literally save your bacon.

Ian

[thecfarm]

I did not think of the iron wedges that can be bought now. The ones I use to use are not blunt. The wedges are tapered evenly all the way. I know what you mean about the bottom of the wedge being too fast.  Antique stores have the old ones. Or grind down the new one.

[John Mc]

I agree that a bore cut may not be "necessary" on the tree joejkd posted, but there may still be good reasons to do it.

The bore cut technique certainly is useful on front leaners to prevent barber chair, and get your hinge set up properly without having the tree start moving before you are ready.

For more-or-less straight-standing trees, or even some with moderate back lean, a conventional back cut works fine, IF you have a big enough tree to start your cut from the back, then insert a wedge after the bar is buried, but before the tree settles back. Since 90% of what I cut is 12" or less, I've just gotten into the habit of doing what Kevin posted (in reply #52) on most of my trees. No worries about it settling back either due to the lean or a gust of wind, and I can do it on a tree that might settle back before I was deep enough to get a wedge in on a conventional back cut. I'm in such a habit now, that I'd probably end up doing it on a larger tree as well.

I also think it's a useful technique for someone getting started with felling (assuming you learn to bore cut safely). It can take a while to learn to read a tree, or you can be surprised by something unexpected (there seem to be a lot more "surprises" when you are just getting started). If I were unsure, I'd rather do this than have barberchair fling my saw or smack me on it's way down.

[Ianab]

Just doing a few "for practise", even if you don't need to is fair enough as well. Gets you confident with the technique before you NEED to use it, on a tree that isn't going to be forgiving of mistakes. I wouldn't like to be bore cutting that tree I posted as my first attempt 

Ian