Portable Mills

[island boy]

Hi all,
I am new to FF. Just found you guys on the net this morning as I was attempting to get info on portable milling. A little background about myself and my situation.... I live and work on an island off the coast of Maine. In the twenty or so years I have been here I have been fortunate to make a living as a builder/carpenter/contractor/property manager. Our island is very undeveloped one and quite peaceful, which is one of the reasons we chose to raise our family here.  Over the years the island has had many trees come down, some due to storms some to land clearing. Most of the hardwoods get used for cord wood while, unfortunately, most of the soft woods especially the pines have been left to rot. I have talked to mills on the mainland about their possible interest in the pines but they have said they can't be bothered with having to deal with the island. As a result I am considering hiring a portable sawyer or possibly purchasing a mill myself. Right now I have 30 or so white pines that are 24" to 38" in diameter 8' to 60' in length. Some have sat for a year or two some from this summer and some from last week. My questions are:
1. Is the wood in the trees that have been down still good and how long will it remain ok?
2. How do I go about deciding if purchasing a mill makes sense or whether i should just hire a portable mill?
3. If purchasing a mill makes sense, what brand Wood Mizer, Timber King, Baker etc and what model do you suggest?
Thanks for any info, suggestions, advise.

[Magicman]

First, Welcome to the Forestry Forum.   

Do you have a use for the lumber or will you try to market it?  If marketing is your goal, then I would thoroughly investigate that and be sure that you have everything lined up so that you will not be stuck with a sawing expense and a pile of lumber.  Transporting the lumber could be an issue.  The sawmill folks that you talked with may know that there may already be a glut of lumber/logs.

If there is a market, sale, or use for the lumber on the island, then your research may be simplified.

As far as sawmill brand names, I would think that they are all good.  Some different, but no bad apples.  Go down the list of sponsors listed to the left.  Ask for and read their literature and watch their videos.  Used sawmills are a viable option. (I did)  There is also a "For Sale" board here at FF.

Good luck and ask questions.

[island boy]

Thanks Magicman.
Maybe you or someone else can answer question #1. How look can white pine sit with bark on before it's wood starts loosing value?

[beenthere]

It starts losing value right away. A year might still allow some recoverable lumber depending on what you might have a use for....studs for in a wall likely could be salvaged.  Pushing it beyond a year but that isn't a hard and fast rule either.

Do you have any way to remove the logs from the Island?  What would it entail?

[island boy]

Yes, I can arrange to have the whole lot barged off island if someone wanted them and made it worthwhile. But remember would love to use the lumber for my own needs.

[jdonovan]

2. How do I go about deciding if purchasing a mill makes sense or whether i should just hire a portable mill?

Cost to produce goods, vs price of goods purchased at retail. If its a personal hobby then you can probably afford not to pay yourself, and perhaps loose a little on the goods as its for personal use. However, if you are looking to do this a business venture, then you've got to have net positive income.

3. If purchasing a mill makes sense, what brand Wood Mizer, Timber King, Baker etc and what model do you suggest?

They are all good brands, any would likely meet your demands.... with a note. Most of the mills have about a 36" diameter limit, so some of the very large trees might need some sort of pre-processing before you could get them onto a bandsaw mill.

[Ohio_Bill]

White Pine can make good lumber it's not the strongest but it is very easy to work with. In the picture the siding and most of the faming is white pine I milled .There are several good mill manufactures. Have owned 3 Woodmizers   LT15, LT40 manual and a LT 40 Super.  Go on Woodmizer site and there is wealth of information there. If you are trying to produce 1000's of BF a day the LT15 is not the mill you want but if you are doing a few thousand a year it would be great.  Keep asking questions and I'm sure you will be able to make an informed decision.

[Raider Bill]

White Pine can make good lumber it's not the strongest but it is very easy to work with. In the picture the siding and most of the faming is white pine I milled .There are several good mill manufactures. Have owned 3 Woodmizers   LT15, LT40 manual and a LT 40 Super.  Go on Woodmizer site and there is wealth of information there. If you are trying to produce 1000's of BF a day the LT15 is not the mill you want but if you are doing a few thousand a year it would be great.  Keep asking questions and I'm sure you will be able to make an informed decision.

That's a nice looking building

[Ianab]

Welcome to the Forum

To address some of your Questions.

1 - Pine is not known for "keeping" in log form. Exactly how long depends on the species, climate, season etc, but the stain fungus and bugs get into it pretty quick. A year on the ground would make it questionable for sure.

2 - Buy your own mill vs Hire? Is this a one off job and you don't see it happening again for a few years? Or do trees come down / need to be taken down on a regular basis. If you can see logs turning up every few months, then having your own mill makes sense as you process them fresh as they come to hand. Once the wood is up on the drying stack it's going to keep a LOT longer.

3 - Brand of mill is not so critical. They all do the same basic thing. Some have more automation and better production features, others are simpler and cheaper. Best to have a look at some running, and see how they would fit in with the operation that you envisage.

Because of you remote location, and the larger pine logs I would suggest you look at the Swingblade Sawmill like the Peterson and Lucas. Reason is the portability and ability to set the mill up around the log where it lays. No heavy machinery or log moving need be involved.

The Smaller manual band sawmills work fine for smaller logs, but are not going to handle a 38" log. A 16ft x 36" Pine log weighs about 4,000lb. Moving it is a bit of a mission without some heavy machinery. A Peterson ATS sawmill for example weighs 860lb, and can be carried to the log in pieces.

Hopefully that's some food for thought anyway.

Ian

[bandmiller2]

As Ian said I think a swing mill would serve you best due to its portability,no need for heavy equip. and the size of the logs you want to cut.In the off seasons it can be stored easily.Sharpeners come with the mill,and really a couple of buildings and you've paid for the mill.Oh and welcome. Frank C.

[WDH]

A swing mill is nice if you are cutting dimension lumber, that is 2x4, 2x6, 2x8, etc.  It is not as functional to cut wide 4/4 (1") boards as a bandmill.  You might make a list of the strengths and weaknesses of each type and brand of mill, then assess your needs or "plan" to see which line up best with your objectives.

[millwright]

Welcome to the forum, there is a bunch of good information to be had here, but beware, if  you buy a mill you will be suprised at how much you will want to run it and ignore real work.

[Buck]

Yeah, I dont wanna log or stack lumber. I just wanna mill. ;D

[Ianab]

While you do have some limits on the board size there is no reason you can't cut 8x1s all day long.

Like there is nothing in Ohio Bill's shed that couldn't be cut easily with a swingblade, and if you were doing it from oversize logs it would probably be easier.

While it's true you might end up with a bit more sawdust and a couple less boards from each log, as they are salvage logs that were going to rot anyway this isn't a deal breaker either.

But it's the portability that is the main thing. As soon as you say "Island" and "Barge" I'm imagining some place pretty remote, probably no heavy machinery etc? Throw in "large logs" and that's the swing mills natural habitat.

Ian

P.S. And as the others suggest, running a sawmill (of any type) is actually fun, at least on a part time basic. Especially if you have some sucker help to offload the boards.  ;) :D

[thecfarm]

isalnd boy,Welcome to the forum.Those white pine could be used for roofing boards. But only so many roof boards are needed too.They will have worm holes in them. What Island are you on? Close too? How big is the island?  Can you afford to sit on a $5000-8000 sawmill until it is needed? Would the salt air cause problems with it in 4-7 years? Check out Thomas Bandsaw Mills in Brooks Maine too. They have a nice manual mills,if you go that route. A swing mill might be just the thing for you. No need to move the log to the mill,the mill is brought to the log. I think they are made of aluminum too. Cut down on the rust factor.

[sigidi]

Given whats been said - my vote is for a swinger and namely a Lucas  8) ;D ;)

[WildDog]

Welcome Island boy, I concur with Sigidi, check out the swingers

Ohio-Bill thats a good looking shed, good to see a wood one, beats the steel sheds springing up everywhere.   

[island boy]

First want to thank everyone for all their help, advise and info...thank you and yes, since I have plenty of them, I will continue to ask questions.

I have been doing a lot of research and making inquires into the different mills...

Some observations:

1 - the swing blades will allow easier access to the logs available and therefore give me more options.
2 - these mills can be stored and transported easier
3 - it seems that the swing blade mills are more popular with the boys from down under.

My concerns:
1 - are the swing blades as easy to get replacement parts for and to get company assistance from?
2 - will they hold up to the band saws, both in terms of hours used and resale value.
3 - issues buying a used swing blade.....
Lucas Model 618, 18 HP Briggs & Stratton gas engine, 3 blades. Original owner. Only 33 hours. $6,750.00

Any thoughts?

[Nomad]

     Island Boy, I've got both a band mill and a Lucas.  While both are portable, it sounds to me like the swingblade is the best option in your case.  Bear in mind that the mill's beams are pretty long; I use an overhead rack on a pickup truck to move them around.

     Bailey's is the stateside source for Lucas mills and parts.  I've had nothing but good dealings with them, but on the other hand I haven't needed much from them yet either.

     I strongly suggest you go with either the 8 or 10 inch model over the 6 inch.  In my opinion it's just too small; you're too limited in what you can easily produce.

     If I were you I'd be thinking about a slabbing attachment for the mill too. 

     YouTube is a fast and easy way to see videos of most of the bandmills as well as the Lucas.  That will help you in narrowing down your options before you plunk down your money.

     

[Dan_Shade]

Have you gone to a show to see the mills in person?  another good idea is to find local owners and see their mills in operation.

[Ianab]

1 - are the swing blades as easy to get replacement parts for and to get company assistance from?

Both Lucas and Peterson have good customer support, spare parts etc. Because the mills are simple and manual there is very little to go wrong. But if it does, they will sort you out. Main issue will be getting blades re-tipped as they wear out or you hit stuff. A local saw doc should be able to do it, or you can buy a jig to replace your own tips.

2 - will they hold up to the band saws, both in terms of hours used and resale value.

I would think so. I mean you could wear one out, but that's going to take a LOT of hours to kill a Briggs engine, and if you did, it's an off the shelf item that you can replace. The only other main part is the gearbox, and that can also be rebuilt or replaced. Even though they are designed to be light and portable they are profession tools, designed to be used full time for years.

3 - issues buying a used swing blade.....

You would want to see it running. Engine starts easy and runs smooth? No oil leaks from the gearbox? Rails are straight and everything tracks and moves like it should?  Even if it needed repairs, that's not a deal breaker, as all the parts and support are available. It's should just be reflected in the purchase price. With only 33 hours on the clock there should be very little wear on that machine.


Yes the swing blade mills are popular in this part of the world. Large trees in remote locations. Portable band sawmills are an oddity here.

Definitely try and see some mills running, especially the Swingblade. They work quite differently from your normal band mill, but once you see / use one, you will get the idea and see how versatile they are.

Ian

[sigidi]

First want to thank everyone for all their help, advise and info...thank you and yes, since I have plenty of them, I will continue to ask questions.

I have been doing a lot of research and making inquires into the different mills...

Some observations:

1 - the swing blades will allow easier access to the logs available and therefore give me more options.
2 - these mills can be stored and transported easier
3 - it seems that the swing blade mills are more popular with the boys from down under.

Island Boy, access is so simple, you can take my Lucas into a suburban backyard through a 900mm (3') gate, slice up a few cubic metres of log then take off, all on the back of a standard Ute (pick up I think u guys call 'em) Like Ian said we have very few bandmills, they just don't seem that popular, I think that's coz we have such few smaller trees and also our timber is very very dense, especially in here in Queensland. Plus down here we have Lucas HQ and they are totally fantastic with customer service -  a cpl months ago I wanted a slabbing bar for my new mill and they had it to my door in less than 24hrs, something like a 14-16hr drive.

My concerns:
1 - are the swing blades as easy to get replacement parts for and to get company assistance from?
2 - will they hold up to the band saws, both in terms of hours used and resale value.
3 - issues buying a used swing blade.....
Lucas Model 618, 18 HP Briggs & Stratton gas engine, 3 blades. Original owner. Only 33 hours. $6,750.00

I cant speak for Petersons, but like has been mentioned, not much need for parts coz, they don't tend to breakdown much. My first Lucas (a 6-18) had regular services, and only needed a gearbox in its 6th year, otherwise it ran like a demon the rest of the time. My gearbox needed replacing due to how I was using it. At that time I was cutting in winter right until night fall then packin up, turns out the high gearbox temp and low night temp created condensation in the gearbox and over a few weeks, ended up blowing a seal.
The initial purchase price is a bit more for a swinger apparently compared to  your bandsaws, but my point of view is you get extra capacity for logs, plus an edger included in the price. Down here, I sold my 6-18 last year after 6 years of faithful service in my business. I bought it for $10,800 and sold it for $11,750
Buying used, on any machine, you can have an issue with the previous owner not looking after machinery. With a model 6 you can have an issue if the drivehub bearing wasn't greased regularly. Lucas have gone to an enclosed drive hub bearing now on all the other models, but the 6 has a bearing you need to grease daily and the whole gearbox and swingframe need to be replaced if that goes - no user serviceable parts in the gearbox/swingframe. Having said all this with it only having done 33 hours, I don't think you can do any harm to it, so I'd go for it.
I disagree on the need for a bigger saw, to begin with. I started with a 6-18 and have done some pretty cool stuff with it, even cut out some 350x350 posts using it. I have a model 10 now, and to tell the truth just wanted one since the first day i heard about them, yeah I can cut step-treads out much easier with it, but I still cut steptreads with my 6" machine anyway. Dunno if it works like this up there, but if you buy a machine second hand in its warranty period, the warranty is extended to you too, so you would still have 'new' mill warranty on that machine you mentioned.

Just go for it  8) ;D 8) ;D