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Sharpening Stone wobble

Started by red pine, September 05, 2011, 08:48:29 AM

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red pine

When trying to set up my new Dayton sharpener (first sharpener ever and new to sharpening) from TK the other day I notice that the grinding wheel has a wobble of approx. 1/32 to 1/16 of an inch. Will this present a problem in the sharpening process? I know bench grinding wheels are not always true and that is usually okay. If a problem is there any simple  adjustment. ???  Redpine

tommone

Redpine, is the wobble side to side or on the periphery? Can you check the grinding wheel shaft for run-out. Even a decent ruler would give you an indication for this amount of wobble. Shafts are easily  damaged in transit. If wobble is peripheral can you clamp some type of diamond point, diamond file or even a rough dressing stone under the wheel and try to true the wheel against it to remove the excess run-out. If wheel bearing is damaged it can cause run-out and will be noisy. Also check clamping washers are not hiding grit particles etc and throwing the wheel out of true. Continuing to grind with a wobbly wheel will definitely damage the bearings and will be difficult to get a decent edge on your saws. Tom.

red pine

The wobble is side to side. I checked the stone and washer for any irregularities but seem okay. If all fails I could try truing the wheel with a dresser. Would that be possible?  Redpine

Banjo picker

I am thinking the rock came with it..since it is new...if not make sure you have a high quality stone on the grinder..The ones I use from Cooks are $18.50 each, but last a long time...Tim
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

ladylake

  If the arbor is that far off I'd have them send you a new one.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

tommone

You should still check the grinding wheel motor shaft for run-out, also make sure the fit on the shaft is not too tight. If these parameters are ok get a replacement grinding wheel. If you want to try dressing it yourself you'll need to clamp your dressing tool solidly and move the wheel arrangement back and forth . I don't think this is possible on the Dayton sharpener without a lot of hassle .Tom

redbeard

Is this TK the new sharpener? they switched from Talon I think. I know they are selling there own dual setter. I will be following your exsperiences with this I been looking at there set up.
Whidbey Woodworks and Custom Milling  2019 Cooks AC 3662T High production band mill and a Hud-son 60 Diesel wide cut bandmill  JD 2240 50hp Tractor with 145 loader IR 1044 all terrain fork lift  Cooks sharp

terrifictimbersllc

My CBN grinder from Wood-Mizer had that problem.  Using a dial gauge, I traced it to the arbor.   Holding the dial gauge perpendicular to the face of the arbor at its perimeter, I could detect runout (the dial gauge was measuring more or less distance, always at the same spot at each revolution of the arbor.   Naturally this transmitted to larger runout at the edge of the larger diameter wheel and a perceptible vibration when the machine was turned on.  But I didn't always get the same amount of vibration, and realized that the wheel probably had just a bit of runout on its own, which either added to or cancelled out the vibration depending on how it was mounted relative to the arbor.    This led me to mark both the wheel and the arbor, and just insert a bit of newspaper shim at the right spot, between the arbor and the wheel.  Now I don't have any vibration or runout.

By the time I had it figured out, and perplexed the WM staff with this problem and my detailed investigation, I didn't want to call them back and ask for a new arbor.  I guess I didn't know whether the replacement would be any better. 
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

ladylake

 You could check if it's the wheel or arbor by marking both then turning the wheel 1/2 turn and see if the runout changes to a different spot on the arbor, if it stays in the same spot then it's the arbor for sure.    Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

red pine

Here is how I managed to get the wobble out. Not necessarily permanent repair. Tommone you asked if the shaft was to tight but in fact the shaft is too loose for the arbor (arbor may be wrong word  e.g. if it was a wheel on a car it would be called hub). The arbor (hub) is held on the shaft by 2 set screws both located on the inside of the arbor and when tightened  they put the arbor minutely out of balance because  of the smallness of the shaft. I made a little pick of 28 gauge aluminum and shoved it in between the shaft and arbor parallel to the screws on the otherside of the arbor. The wobble is gone for now.    Red pine.

Banjo picker

You said that was a new sharpener...I would want them to fix it...You will get tired of having to put some kind of shim on  it everytime you change a wheel...Tim
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

tommone

Glad to see ingenuity is alive and well in the Forestry forum. A problem shared is a problem solved. Redpine is a happy sawyer now. I've noticed that most sharpeners have a 1/2" shaft or arbor as some call it.  Maybe  it's time for sharpener manufacturers to look at upgrading shaft diameters to about 3/4" or 20mm for better strength and stability. Higher cost involved of course but  engineering industry fixed machine grinders using a 5" wheel would have a shaft  diameter of 1 1/4" or 32mm.tom.

bandmiller2

Grinding wheels/stones/rocks are a fired ceramic and sometimes warp when fired.Try a different wheel.Any wheel should be dressed on the machine that turns it,best done with diamond dressers I like the "T" shaped ones with diamond grits rather than a single point.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

red pine

I will not have to remove my little shim because it is between the 3/8" shaft and the 5/8" arbor. I feel it would of course be better if the arbor was part of the shaft, but maybe the potential to be able move the  arbor in or out gives more flexibility to the adjustment of the grinding setup. I notice that the grinding is not smooth (certainly far from the grind on new blade), could this be due to inadequate dressing of the grind wheel to match the gullet?, quality of stone? Any thoughts. Redpine

ladylake

 
  New blades are stamped out and will be smooth, some brands sharpen them after stamping some don't.  My wheels leave the gullet somewhat rough but the blades are as sharp as new or better. How do your sharpened blades cut?    Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

red pine

Belated response to Steve's question "how do the blades cut after sharpening?". I must say that despite the somewhat rough grind, the blades cut as good as new. I note that in DVD provided by TK relative to the Talon sharpener(not Dayton as I stated earlier, elect. motors are Dayton), a lite colored stone is used and preferred by the operator to the black provided with the kit. I can only assume it is more money and presumably grinds a finer finish. Had some wander in the sharpened blades, but I have not set the blades and in reading some of the comments on milling of red pine  logs, a heavier setting seems preferred. By the way my logs have sat around too long and worms have entered. We have peeled which should help from too much further damage.   Redpine 

ladylake


Yes, more set for sure in old pine logs.    Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

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