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Ethanol gas in sawmill engines

Started by mandolin, September 04, 2011, 02:32:11 PM

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mandolin

I would like to get some member opinions on what kind of additives you guys use in ethanol gas on your mills. I've tried several different kinds but finally settled on Sta-bil Marine grade. I talked to my engine mechanic about this and he told me nothing really helps. Is this true? I've already taken the carb off my 4-wheeler and had it re-built and now it's quit again. Before I started using this, I had to take the engine off and have the carb worked on because of the ethanol. I can get non-ethanol gas but it out of my way. Anybody got anything better?
2008 Hudson 228
1945 Boice-Crane Planer
1953 Ford Jubilee Tractor
Husqvarna 455 Rancher
Dehumidification kiln
Complete cabinet/furniture shop
Professional turkey boxcall tuner

MartyParsons

We have had little trouble with the sawmill engines, except the owners who do not run them for a year or more. The other equipment we sell is a different story. We explain to all customers who purchase lawn equipment, chain saws  etc. to use 89 octane or higher and use a three month supply. If you are not going to run your equipment for some time, drain the fuel and run it all out of the carb.
We sell Sta-bil, Star Tron and some other additives. Stihl and Husky 50 : 1 mix has fuel stablizer in the oil mixture. If you are using a steel gas can you are asking for more issues. The fuel can should be sealed to keep the water out of the fuel.
We just traded a LT40HD with a 25 hp Kohler engine it had little over 2000 hours on it. I removed the top off the carb and it was full of junk. The owner said it was surging and recommended we install a new engine. I checked the clyinder compression it was 160psi . I think all it was was dirty fuel.
Marty
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

Bandmill Bandit

I have been buying premium fuel (92 octane) for my mill and all other small engines including 2 cycles. I have been using a product called Sea Foam for about 5 years that I pick up at the local Auto Value store. One can lasts me through about 25 to 30 imp gal of gas. Have not had any issues so far. I throw a can in the pick up about every 5 or 6 tanks as well. seems to mitigate the ethanol issues so far.

  http://www.seafoamsales.com/motor-treatment.html
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Chuck White

When I go to get gasoline for my mill, lawn mowers, chainsaws, etc. I use plastic 5 gallon gas cans and sometimes even the gas tank for the mill to haul the gasoline in.  I only use 87 octane.

Before I head for the gas station, I put 1 ounce of Sta-Bil in each of the cans and the fuel tank.

I don't know if it's Marine Grade Sta-Bil or not, the lable doesn't say anything about marine.  I get it at Wal-Mart for around $9.00.

To this date (knock-on-wood) I haven't had any trouble with any of my engines due to ethenol!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Bodger

Don't know about ya'll but here we have a couple of independent suppliers that deliver gas with no alcohol to small stores out in the country.  You might look around and find someone that is selling safe gas.  I'd rather deal with them anyway.
Work's fine for killing time but it's a shaky way to make a living.

DouginUtah


Those who use Seafoam may be interested in this slickdeal:

http://slickdeals.net/permadeal/57814/advance-auto-parts-5pack-of-16oz-seafoam-motor-treatment-for-gas-and-diesel-engines

"Advance Auto Parts has 5-pack of 16oz Seafoam Motor Treatment for Gas and Diesel Engines for $34.95 - $10 with coupon code A123 = $24.95 + free store pick-up."
-Doug
When you hang around with good people, good things happen. -Darrell Waltrip

There is no need to say 'unleaded regular gas'. It's all unleaded. Just say 'regular gas'. It's not the 70s anymore. (At least that's what my wife tells me.)

---

Buck

I try not to buy ethanol gas but I do use seafoam and it's good stuff.
Respect is earned. Honesty is appreciated. Trust is gained. Loyalty is returned.

Live....like someone left the gate open

Banjo picker

I just recently tried the seafoam.  I tried it after a fellow that had an x-mark mower told me how good it was...I have had lots of trouble with a small John Deere mower that has a Kohler motor on it...I think its running better than it did when it was new, after putting the seafoam in one tank...Tim
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

MReinemann

Up here people swear by the star-tron.  I've used it but can't really tell the difference,  most of my small engines don't sit around long enough without being ran for the fuel to go bad.  I use Marine Sta-Bil in my boat (350 Mercruiser) and haven't had any trouble with bad fuel after sitting for winter.  I have also heard of folks putting Marvel Mystery Oil in their gas.  Not quite sure how that would help with the ethanol but to each his own I guess.
-Matt

millwright

I have been using sta-bil for quite a few years and found it does a good job, the only problem I had was melted gaslines in my chainsaws and once the hose was replaced I had no more trouble.

kelLOGg

I buy 20 gallons of 87 octane at a time for my caddy and use it for sawmill (Kohler engine), chainsaw, lawnmower, tractor, weed eater, generator, tiller and sometimes a car or truck. I use no additives and have had no problems ever. I will drain equipment that I don't use over the winter (usually only the lawn mower and tiller) and run 'til it stops. I've had no problems with ethanol.
Bob
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

Wallys World

I had problems with my Vermeer tree chipper. I let it sit for three month and I had to pull the carb. Now I use 91 octane non-ethanol I found up near the lake. Lots of boat owners are using it. This is what i use in all my equipment now.
Wood-Mizer LT28G25, Wood-Mizer EG10 Edger, Wallenstein Timber Talon log loader trailer, Wallenstein GX640 wood splitter, Wallenstein WP835 Fire Wood Processor, Kubota BX 22 TLB, JD 445, JD Gator, Home made arch, Stihl 024 Super, MS251, MS311, MS440 Magnum & MS660.

Magicman

Quote from: mandolin on September 04, 2011, 02:32:11 PM
I can get non-ethanol gas but it out of my way. Anybody got anything better? 

Roger, I would just use non-ethanol.  That is much easier than trying some additive that is questionable anyway.  Use it in all of your small engines, 4Wheeler, chainsaws, & lawnmower.  Heck, I would even put it in your snow blower.   :D :D

Tillotson, Chester Foster, and Powell's all have non-ethanol.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Bill Gaiche

I do not use any treatment in anything that I use often. Boat doesnt get used but a few  times a year and I use sta-bil in it. Everything else, 4-wheeler, 2 chainsaws, limb saw,weedeater, leaf blower, leaf collect, pressure washer, mower, tiller, Welder/generator and bandsaw mill. 2 cycle engines get 91 octane and amzoil oil, everything else is 87 octane. When season is over I will run that engine dry of fuel and the next time I need it, it sarts right up with fresh fuel. I have not had an issue with any type of fuel. I see people use containers that are metal with no caps on filler, I see people use plastic with no caps on them either. These people have problems all the time with engines that dont run properlly and wonder why. Dirt and water in the can so right into what ever they are fueling. Carbs can get dirty because of not having a good filter ahead of the carb or a vent line that runs external of the carb and no filter. With engines that run where there is a lot of dust and sawdust it will get in that carb and it will make one run poorly or not at all if it is not protected. Ever them sometimes you still will have to clean that carb because that stuff wants in there so you can be made miserable. bg

trapper

I use stabil in the last few tanks of gas of things that will sit for the winter and always in the generator which gets infrequent use. I will start with the stablizer soon as I never know when the last time I will use the lawnmower and rototiller will be.  I use chainsaw gas in the weedeater which always has stabilizer  in it because the 2 cycle oil I use comes with it.  Just bought a case of Baileys synthetic.  Got a free sample with some saw chains and liked it.
stihl ms241cm ms261cm  echo 310 400 suzuki  log arch made by stepson several logrite tools woodmizer LT30

Stephen1

I love this topic, as it is an on going problem with ethanol. So we don't really save any thing from burning our corn which fuels a huge farmers market, and cost more than every thing else to make.  Now we have to use and burn some other chemical which is producing another carcinogenic.
I finally found the cheapest and easiest product to use is methyl  hydrate , "gas line antifreeze" . The first summer my riding lawn mower powered by Honda was running rough, finally after 3 visits from the repair mechanic, "love warranty's ;)" and reading here and there, I realized we have to burn the water attracted by the ethanol, and all I had on the shelve in the barn was the little bottles of gas line antifreeze, i poured half in , within a minute was running better than new. So any time I pour new gas into the lawn mower I just add  a few ounces of methyl hydrate, bought at the drugstore for a great discount by the liter.
Why does this work .....ethanol attracts the moisture in the gas but does not mix with it to allow it to burn, so it fouls up the new fuel efficient carburetors, adding methyl hydrate, which then  blends with the moisture and allows it to burn.
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

Chuck White

Interesting, Steven1

I may have to try that.

Never thought about it, but it makes sense!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Coon

Darn it!! Now everyone knows something I was keeping secret.   ;)   :D   I have been using methyl-hydrate for years.  We found that snowmobile fuel tanks would have a layer of frost built up on the unfilled portions of the tanks and was more so predominant when ethanol fuel was in the tanks.  We were having constant water problems in the fuel so started using methyl-hydrate and the problems cleared right up.  We had problems with the outboard motors as well until we went to use up the previous winters snowmobile fuel when the outboards cleared right up and purred like a kitten.  From then on for us it was put in every bit of fuel we buy just so we don't have problems.  The amount for carb and engine fuel problems service work has been more than cut in half since we started using.   ;D
Norwood Lumbermate 2000 w/Kohler,
Husqvarna, Stihl and, Jonsereds Saws

bandmiller2

The marine stabil is the one to use now, as its designed for alcohol fuels.Seafoam is a good product and works,I use it in all my can fuel.I also add a small amount of synthetic 2 cyc. oil to small engine gas,as these air cooled engines tend to run hot and dry around their head and valves.Running an engine dry when it won't be used for more than a week or so is good form.Whenever you can buy propane fueled small engines like for a generator. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

John Mc

Quote from: Stephen1 on September 04, 2011, 11:37:22 PM
...ethanol attracts the moisture in the gas but does not mix with it to allow it to burn, so it fouls up the new fuel efficient carburetors

Ethanol does mix with water. It bonds with water very readily. That's part of the problem, because eventually it bonds with enough water that the ethanol/water mix settles out (known as phase separation). If the ethanol were high enough concentration in the water, it would burn (think E85 fuel), but that's not how it works with E10 gas. What settles out is a corrosive mixture that is also hard on many rubber/plastic compounds.

John Mc
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

John Mc

Quote from: Bandmill Bandit on September 04, 2011, 03:47:26 PM
... I have been using a product called Sea Foam for about 5 years that I pick up at the local Auto Value store. One can lasts me through about 25 to 30 imp gal of gas. Have not had any issues so far. I throw a can in the pick up about every 5 or 6 tanks as well. seems to mitigate the ethanol issues so far.

  http://www.seafoamsales.com/motor-treatment.html

What I had read was that SeaFoam is a cleaning agent, not a stabilizer or something intended to help with longer-term storage of ethanol blend gas. The ethanol in E10 gas is actually a fairly effective solvent and fuel system cleaner, so for the most part, you shouldn't need to add a cleaner. (In fact, some of the problems with ethanol blended gas are really that it loosened up a bunch of gunk and deposits which had built up in the tank and engine, clogging up the system.)
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

mandolin

Thanks, guys. Magicman, I did not know that Fosters sold non-ethanol gas. I knew about Tillotsons and Powells. I'll go there from now on. Thanks.

2008 Hudson 228
1945 Boice-Crane Planer
1953 Ford Jubilee Tractor
Husqvarna 455 Rancher
Dehumidification kiln
Complete cabinet/furniture shop
Professional turkey boxcall tuner

bandmiller2

The hard fact is most of us are stuck with the crappy gas,as newer engines are built they will handle it better.Until then stabilizer and additives are all we have.A good fuel shutoff close to the carb and run her dry at the end of the day will go a long way to avoid problems. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

John Mc

Yeah, we can only get non-ethanol gas here in Vermont in the summer. It's simply not available anywhere in the state from about mid September until late spring.

I think we have the boating lobby to thank for E0 availability in the summer. The problem is finding gas for chainsaws and older small engines the rest of the year. Some of those engines, I don't have any qualms about running on E10 (I run them dry when I'm done, or at least shut down using the fuel shutoff). Others are a different story...

John Mc
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Birk-man

After struggling for several years with ethanol gas in all my small engines, I started using racing fuel.  It is pumped by hand out of 55 gallon drums at a local gas station.  They have several choices in high-octane, ethanol-free gasoline. I have had next to no problems since switching over.  It's painful to fill up my three five-gallon plastic containers but the peace of mind is worth it.  Ask around in your area where you can buy racing fuel.  I've also heard great things about Sea Foam.

Peter W

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