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Ford vs Chevy  or WM vs TH

Started by DR_Buck, January 16, 2004, 04:34:17 PM

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DR_Buck

 ::)

After reading the responses I got concerning the WM LT40 manual log loader and many recommendations to go for hydraulics my head started spinning.   :)   Now I've expaned my research to consider other mills and options.  Of course what I want may be far more than I need now.  But boys must have toys!

First, to set the stage:   I will be milling part time.  Mostly other peoples logs.   I have a fair amount of my own oak that I plan to make into marketable fence boards.  The mill will need to pay for its self.

The Timber Harvester 36HT25 and the Woodmizer LT40 Hydraulic are very close in cost.   I like the Woodmizer cantilevered head design, but the Timber Harvester remote control and board return sure looks like a better one man operation.   And, Timber Harvester  is offering an attractive defered financing option.   That would allow me to start making money to apply to the machine cost.

 ???
Question is:   If you didn't own a mill and were going to buy one, which would you buy and why?

By the way... Ford F350 Super Duty Diesel
Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

Minnesota_boy

I looked at a number of mills when I was considering what you are now about to start.  To me, the way Woodmizer was layed out and the way the hydraulic lift folded up when I was ready to move to a new site helped me to make up my mind.  I work by myself, and find that each job seems to be layed out different so that for one job, board return would be great (I usually bring the board back on top of the blade as I return the head), but the next job has stuff in the way so the boards have to go off the other end of the mill to stack.  This past spring, I nearly locked up my mill as I needed to pile boards to one side of the road and slabs on the other, so when I went to move the mill, I could just barely open the door of the truck enough to squeeze out to hook up the mill.  Look at which mill will suit your intended business and leave you with options if the business has to change.
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

Bibbyman

Welcome to the FF DR-Buck,

You ain't trying to start something are you?

I'am not eligible to answer your question since I've owned three Wood-Mizer mills over the past ten years..  But I've seen about every major brand of mill in operation and talked to the company representatives and mill owners.

I like to put it this way... There is nothing wrong with other mill designs .. just that there are more things right about the Wood-Mizer.  

For the equal performance mill,  the Wood-Mizer with it's single rail design and tube construction is generally much lighter – as the other mill manufactures will point out.  But this allows it to be pulled easier and by a lighter truck.  The single axle and lighter weight makes it easier to position the mill by hand.  The ridged frame makes setup quick and easy and does not require precise leveling. The lower deck height and "clear" front corners makes pulling boards a lot easier.

The cantilever head makes it easier saw odd shaped large logs as it does not have a post on the right side that has to be cleared.  The right side open allows you to place a log on the mill longer than the mill – something you won't want to do very often but it can be done.  The right side open gives you better visibility.

You will probably hear that the cantilever head can't possibly work for one reason or the other.  The proof that it does work is proven every day on 30,000 mills out there over the past 20 years.  

Plus – there is no better bunch of people to work with than people that make up Wood-Mizer.

My next mill will be a Wood-Mizer...  Does that count??
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

isawlogs

   Ten years ago I was in the same place your at now... trying to find a mill for my intended use .We started looking at mills in the spring of 93 ,went to all the wood shows and met with anybody that I could get sawmilling info from. I wanted a mill but not any mill ,My dad told me ** buy a mill that you will work with, not one that you will work on **

   So I went Orange with hydraulics ;) ;D ;D
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

isawlogs

   Oh... BTW  welcome  :D
  
    Dodge / 4x4 / 250 / turbo cummins / 8 foot western plow(on front) / 7foot highway v-box sander(in the back) / LT40HD-24 onan hooked to the rear end......

Now alls I need is for the thermometer to come out of hibernation and I could get me a few more logs cut up this winter... ;D ;D ;D
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Percy

Hey Doc.
When I bought my first mill in 97, I got a WM. I didnt know squat about portable mills so I got on the net and made an alphabetical list of every type of mill I could find, researched till I was blue in the face.  Well Woodmizer was at the bottom of my alphabetical list and after a few phonecalls to Salmon Arm and Indiana, I was sold.  I could have  saved alot of time by starting at the bottom of my list ;D. Now I have an LT70 remote and am basicly an Orangeman. But for the record, my second choice would have been a Timberharvester with Baker a close third. They are all pretty good...BUT I love my mill.  It teaches me if that makes any sense. ;D
GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

shopteacher

Welcome, Welcome Welcome.  Can't help a lot with you decision on which mill to by other than to truthfully say I've never regretted buying my woodmizer.
Proud owner of a LT40HDSE25, Corley Circle mill, JD 450C, JD 8875, MF 1240E
Tilt Bed Truck  and well equipted wood shop.

Norm

Welcome aboard DR_Buck, we had the same questions you had when we started our search for a sawmill. Looked at a lot of different models before I got a woodmizer. It's a well built piece of equipment. First thing that I noticed when we started using it was how well built the frame was. About the only thing that isn't well designed is the board dragback, I took mine off so I had a bigger throat size.

I can't really give a good opinion on the TH as I've never seen one in person but if I was going to buy another mill I'd get the woodmizer again.

Ford F-250 Powerstroke!

Swede

I had the same problem less than a year ago. :) What mill do I want, what mill do I need, what mill do I have in ten years or more, what mill do my bankaccount allow me. A russian, WM40HDSuper, the used Jacko, build one my self ???

Evrything that moves I need to repair some times, so most parts i want to be able make in my own workshop.
I like the clear right side of WM but the weight made me need and other driving licence and a big 4WD or move it in 30 km/h with a tractor.
As a machine designer and builder since 20 years I found a mill where the saw unit has wheels both side of the log most sensible. Every sawmill gets older.I also found a man who´ve had his sawmill like mine for 18 years, using it half time.
Why does WM-people here buy a new after 3-5 years, I found that a NEW WM is a very good working sawmill. If I should use it 150 days (or more) a year and get paid for it perhaps.........

One day my brother found a used mill in the newspaper, used less than 200 h. $4500, no hydraulic down the frame but I can make that in my workshop (compare Baker 30HTL or Timber Harvester 30 HTL19), the weight less than 900Kg. The saw unit on rails both sides of the log. I found nothing wrong with the mill exept the way  the previous owner used it, and why tell him? ;D ;D ;D. (compare Baker 30H or Timber Harvester)
So thats my sawmill now and if I can get the market here awake with it perhaps I buy a new one. Perhaps!

There was some good characteristic I didn´t know before i had used my sawmill some hours. There is 4 wheels carrying the saw unit but only one of them is driven by a hydraulic motor. When the band  get dull or anything prevent the sawunit from moving, the weel begins to slip. I´ve not found this on any other sawmill but i realy like it. However I ca´t get a dragback but I don´t see any broblem with that. I cut the first kerf, go back, start the new kerf and take the first board away while the sawunit goes. 8)

There is "both side carryed" WM too whit out wheels and it works very close to the grond. It´s not so expensive and You don´t need log lifters.

There is a lot of choices to do when You buy Your first sawmill! Good luck!

Swede.





Had a mobile band sawmill, All hydraulics  for logs 30\"x19´, remote control. (sold it 2009-04-13)
Monkey Blades.Sold them too)
Jonsered 535/15\". Just cut firewood now.

Frank_Pender

Welcome to the Forum, DR.  It is great to have another sawdust love on board.  I do not have a band mill any longer.  I dis have one some years ago, but gave it away.  It was one that was built down on the Southern Oregon Coast.

Anyway, I run Mobile Dimension Mills, due to the size of timber we have here in Oregon.  I saw mostly Douglas Fir dimensional lumber.   The Md mill is a circle saw system with two edger blades and a main blade for helping determine the width of your lumber.  If you are into a logs that will be 10-12" and up 80% or more of the time it is a great production mill, designed for a "one man show".  I looked a mills for three years before I pourchased my first MD mill.   Good luck in your choice. ;D

  By the by I run a 1999, F 450 Power Stroke with a 20,000 lb. hoist attatched to a 1954 duce and a half box. 8) 8) 8)
Frank Pender

Kirk_Allen

QuoteWhy does WM-people here buy a new after 3-5 years, I found that a NEW WM is a very good working sawmill. If I should use it 150 days (or more) a year and get paid for it perhaps.........


Swede,
I started with an LT40HDG25.  When I first started cutting with it I was lucky to bang out 100 BF an hour.  As time went on I became more experienced and my production has trippled.  So why would I want to buy a new one next year? (that will put me at 3 years with my current one)

Simple, higher production rates.  I dont know of anyone that buys a second or third WM and buys the same model.  Most are upgrading, as Im sure is the case with othe brands. Theres nothing wrong with the mill I have other than Im ready for higher prodcution.  The fact that the WM has a high resale value is a help in that upgrade process as well.  Im not sure of resale of other brands but it does make a difference.   Without the great resale market on them I bet less people would have upgraded. (my humble opinoin ;D)

Why did I pick a LT40 instead of the Super LT40? Since my original plan was to only cut my own wood I felt that the LT40 would be more than sufficient, and it has been.  However now with more exposure, experience and a large demand in the market place for grade wood, I want to upgrade so that its more profitable.
 
My next mill will be a LT70, unless they come out with something better between now and the time I upgrade.

Dr. Buck, Good luck in your venture!


Swede

Kirk Allen, I hope You don´t take it personal!  :) and I din´t know You where up to by a new one.
Now we where talking about buying the first sawmill and have to watch our money while starting the business. So a used saw with a high resale value.....perhaps there are other alternative.
I have a workshop where I can produce most things that´s not to complicated, if I hadn´t I had to buy a mill that I could find spareparts for in a day or two. In Sweden there is not many  band sawmill dealers so perhaps it had been a WM then. AND a tractor or a big 4WD car+ driving licence.

I also got a little allergic to WM because talking to WM-people here about other mills was like swear to the vicar. And thats not true, that there isn´t any other sawmills that You can use for split a log.
You started with the money You wanted to spend, with a sawmill that made You happy, did it good and everythin just worked. We all have different vallets and different requirements and usally we dont know them from the beginnig. I don´t know my yet ;D
Finally there is characteristic with  medium and big WM:s and Jacko:s "right side" i like and   other I don´t like. But a new WM is a great sawmill. THATS true!

Swede.
Had a mobile band sawmill, All hydraulics  for logs 30\"x19´, remote control. (sold it 2009-04-13)
Monkey Blades.Sold them too)
Jonsered 535/15\". Just cut firewood now.

Wes

 We started with a WM LT-15,good price,good machine.4 years later we sold it for a good price and bought a WM LT-40 super, you cant beat the hydrolics.

 We never considered any other mill,posibly becouse ever since woodmizer started making mills my father has been talking about owning one. They are good people and there service is excellent.

 Im sure there are many other mills out there that are very good and have good service, but Im the type of person that will stay with something when I know its GOOD.


Kirk_Allen

Swede,
No problem at all :)  I was only trying to give you an answer to your question as it relates to me since I will be upgrading.  

I agree 100% that there are some great mills out there and they all have their plus and minus.  

Its kind of like the post says - Ford vs Chevy.

I know one day I will have to have something that can take care of the logs that my WM cant handle but until then I have to say the WM has been one of the smartest investments I have ever made.

Plowboy

We've gone from a Procut chainsaw mill to LT 15 Woodmizer.  I have not regreted buying the Woodmizer.  I hope to do enough custom work to be able to upgrade in a few years.  I too did some research and found in terms of all around quailty and features the Woodmizer seemed to be the best buy.  Then again this is my opinon.  Plowboy

Tex-saw

Welcome,I have to say that my WMlt40hyd has been the best investment that I ever made. I've only had it 15 months and have cut a lots of lumber.by far out of all the equipment,tractors and other stuff i have bought it has had the quickest turn around on my investment.

02Goat(Dodge)3500dually Cummins HO turbo diesel 6spd.manual 8)

AtLast

OHHHHH BROTHER...I SHOULD stay outta this one..BUT...all I can say is....ya have Levis  jeans...and ya have JC Penny Jeans.....both are equally good ceptin that ur gunna pay MORE for the Levis simply because they are Levis...I'll stop there  ;D

 2003 Ford F-250 Powerstroke diesel

dutchman

I bought a used 1995 TimberHarvester 30 HT in Dec.1998.
Moved the flow control valve to the hydralic control center, added  roller tapers,and sharpen my on blades.It's been a reliable machine for me.
I saw part time for regular customers, and have aquired logs locally just to get them out of someones yard.
I own a 1990 John Deere 750,1958 Ford 821, 1951Cub,1980 Chevy one ton Dump, and 1999 F 250 SD.
Use and maintain any good piece of machinery and it will serve you well.

DR_Buck

 ;)

All good input and recommendations.  

I've been doing a lot of reading and WEB research.  Haven't found much in the way of reviews or reports on the Timber Harvester though.   Right now I'm leaning towards the WM LT40 HDG25.

I'm going to get a side by side comparison this coming week at the VA farm show.   Timber Harvester, Hud-Son and Woodmizer all have displays and demos scheduled.

Might even come away with a contract!

DR Buck

 8)

2003 F-350 SD  Longbed - 7.3ltr Diesel
1974 F-500 Flatbed Dump
Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

Dugsaws

Welcome to the forum DR,
 I cant say anything bad about either mill because I havent been around wm long enough to tell, but I can tell you that Timber Harvester has a service dept that I would say is second to none, I wanted to change from  gasoline engine to a diesel engine and the service dept told me everything I needed to change down to the # of nuts and bolts I needed(well almost) :D
 I have had my TH30ht25 for 6 years now and no major problems to report(besides the engine& I cant hold that agnist them), if you give them a call I am sure they would arrange a demo for you
Doug

Dugsaws

OH yea almost forgot
 93 F-250
 86 F-8000
Doug

DR_Buck

Doug,

Did you but the TH new?   Why the engine change?  

TH is setting up the 36HT25 at the VA farm show this week.   I saw it a few years ago at a show, but wasn't serious about buying a mill back then.   Now with the prices for lumber just having a way to cut what I need for the farm will be a savings.  I also hope to saw enough for others to pay for the machine!

DR Buck
Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

Dugsaws

DR_Buck,
 Yes I did buy the TH new, the reason for the engine change is it blew up it was an onan 24 hp.
 The mill has sawed around 180,000 bdftand roughly 1800-2000 hours on it and I talkwd to onan rep and they said it was about the life of that motor.
 So if at all possible I would recommend a diesel motor reguardless which color you decide on, I know it is more money buttttt, the diesel will last longer as we have them in all the tractors on the farm and they seem to never die. If you have  any ? feel free to send me a pm or ask here on this post.

 Doug
Doug

Swede

And I forgot......

-92 Volkswagen Passat CL 1.8 Variant (with speed control)
-74 CZ 472. (with out speed after 6 km.)
 ;D Swede.
Had a mobile band sawmill, All hydraulics  for logs 30\"x19´, remote control. (sold it 2009-04-13)
Monkey Blades.Sold them too)
Jonsered 535/15\". Just cut firewood now.

Duane_Moore

 :)Welcome DR_Buck,  when ya get the answer let me know,loooookin also, about settled on   WM, 100,000 coyotes can't be to wrong,   Duh---Duane ;D
village Idiot---   the cat fixers----  I am not a complete Idiot. some parts missing.

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