36" white oak milled into framing or siding or ?

[chainsaw_louie]

Hi ,

I'm planning to build a small barn/workshop and there are several blown over trees I have to choose from to mill the framing wood.  One such tree is a big white oak 36" at the butt.  Is it a crazy waste to make this beautiful wood into to 2x8 framing ? Or would it be better suited for siding (1x8 board + batten) .

What do you think?

Thanks ,

Tim

[Burlkraft]

Quartersaw!

[Banjo picker]

If I were going to use it for framing ...I wouldn't let it set very long or it will be a pill to get a fastener in....I would suggest saving it for exterior use and use something else for the framing...Down here that would be Souther Yellow Pine...Tim

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

If you have any plans for flooring any where in your project, White Oak is what I'd use. Makes a GREAT floor!!!

Like Tim said, If you have Pine, use it for framing.

[Collima]

I would quartersaw.
White oak would be a booger to frame with. All the predrilling for nails would be too time consuming

[jcbrotz]

Get yourself some Hemlock for framing and siding and use the oak for trim or some cabinets don't waste it on something you aren't going to see.. I'll trade you a 36 diameter hemlock or 2 for your oak :D

[Rooster]

Have you been to visit some of us over in the Timber framing and log construction section of the forum?  Many timber frame barns were and still are made out of white oak.

Can you actually quarter saw and still leave a 8x8 beam boxing the heart?

Or mill up the oak, sell the lumber and get hemlock or white pine logs to timber-frame or balloon frame.

Good luck with your project.

Rooster

[chainsaw_louie]

Hi ,

Wow thanks for all the responses .  The thing is, around here there are lots of big oaks and they blow over and are too big for people to deal with so they are available from time to time.

Re the predrilling, thats a big pain. If I use a pneumatic nailer, does it have to be predrilled ?

As for timber framing, I thought about it but then it has to  be framed out for insulation so it seems to me to be easier just to go with traditional  stick framing .  Also, because I want to heat the building the beautiful timber framing would all be covered with insulation ....just not sure if there is any way around that.

So, quarter saw the white oak, air dry it , sell the lumber and buy softwood logs .   Well thats an idea, so I'll just mill this into 1x8's and dry it for sale or floors or siding or trim etc.  Sounds reasonable .

Tim

[Meadows Miller]

Quartersaw!

It looks like you have put together a good plan off action there Tim  ;) ;D ;D 8)

Regards Chris

[Rooster]

Tim,

Timber frames are easier to insulate than you might think.  I am currently building a 28ft x 28 ft story and a half timber-framed carriage house  (workshop and garage), and I will be insulating the outside of the frame with 4x8 sheets of foam insulation.  3in on the outside of the walls and 5in on the roof.  It is called "wrap and strap".  If you do a search within the FF, you will find a few threads that deal with this way of insulation.  This technique also allows the full beam of the timberframe to be exposed on the inside, while making a nice thermal envelope for your heat source.  I am also designing a 2 story timber-framed workshop/vehicle storage which will also be incorporating this same type of insulation system because it is easy and the customer wants to see the entire frame from the inside.

I would seriously encourage you to learn more about this system and timber-framing in general..just stop on by our section of the forum..we'll take good care of you. ;)

Rooster

P.S.
Lots of good info within our sticky threads...we're all about learning and sharing!

[beenthere]

Rooster
Have you posted any pics of the carriage house frame you are working on now?

[Rooster]

Beenthere,

I do have some pics, but I have gotten to the point where I would rather start a thread on one of my projects after it is finished than to let it drag out over a 2 or 3 month period.  I know how you guys are....always hungry for updates and more photos. :D...So, I guess you will just have to wait and see. ;)

Rooster

[Banjo picker]

2 or 3 months is nothing ...A fellow needs plenty of things to work on ....when he wants to...Tim

[Satamax]

Hi ,

Wow thanks for all the responses .  The thing is, around here there are lots of big oaks and they blow over and are too big for people to deal with so they are available from time to time.

Re the predrilling, thats a big pain. If I use a pneumatic nailer, does it have to be predrilled ?

As for timber framing, I thought about it but then it has to  be framed out for insulation so it seems to me to be easier just to go with traditional  stick framing .  Also, because I want to heat the building the beautiful timber framing would all be covered with insulation ....just not sure if there is any way around that.

So, quarter saw the white oak, air dry it , sell the lumber and buy softwood logs .   Well thats an idea, so I'll just mill this into 1x8's and dry it for sale or floors or siding or trim etc.  Sounds reasonable .

Tim

You could also make  a nice timber frame, and let it show, inside the building using something like sip's or something in the style, outside as insulation, and board over the insulation. You picture what i mean?

If you saw, don't make only 1X8, i bet woodworkers would like to have some thicker wood, for example to make stringers with.

[red oaks lumber]

blown over trees have a tendincey to have alot of internal fractures, which most won't really show up until the wood dries ;) something to think about, if the wind was blowin hard enough to tip a w. oak that big  over i would find some one or some place to sell the log as is . just my opinion

[Collima]

I agree with that last comment. I usually send storm damaged trees to the local biomass energy plant.  Unless it's super nice veneer quality timber that looks like it's in good shape

[Banjo picker]

Its according to how its blow over...If the roots came up with it, like I have seen my white oaks do on occasion I would disagree...If one is snapped off ...might not be worth much...Tim

[red oaks lumber]

how easy would a bulldozer tip a large oak over? not very well, the problem even with the root ball intacted is during the wind event when the tree is swaying one way the fibers are being strechted and on the ohter side they are being compressed then throw a little twisting action and what do you have? most lickley a tree that has suffered fiber damage.
every year i can buy wind damage for real cheap but, i don't feel for what i make the logs have any value for sawing. i think every one in their sawing lifetime needs to saw and dry wind damage trees to see first hand what the wood reaslly looks like.

[5quarter]

I've never had a bad blow over....what I do avoid is lightning strike. I have never cut a lightning struck tree that did not develop massive ring separation. When the soil over-saturates, it does not take much wind to blow a big tree over. in fact, It may take less wind to blow down a big tree than it would a smaller one, accounting for the massive crown of larger trees...imo.

[Banjo picker]

Red Oaks in my mind the dozer illustration just don't work....If that dozer were 40 or 50' up and pushings sideways when the soil is soaked it wouldn't take a lot to push over a pretty large tree....We are talking about White Oak not a lesser tree...From what I have seen is white oak don't usually put a tap root down like a pine does...the roots are spread out fairly close to the top of the ground.  Tim

[Norm]

I do lots of land clearing with an excavator and dozer. Big white oaks are a bear to dig out because of a tendency to grow a root ball down as well as out. Red oak is similar in it's root ball too. The worst is if they've been already cut down with a very shallow height stump. Nothing to use for leverage to work it lose.

As far as a wind thrown tree for me it's hit or miss if the wood is any good. Probably better chance if the root ball came out too but you know it's been stressed getting bent around like that.   

I'd saw it though as a nice big white oak makes such beautiful q-sawn. 

[chainsaw_louie]

Here are some pictures of the white oak. Its 50' up to the first crotch.
I put the tape measure to it and its 27" across not 36"

My plan now is to cut it into 10' logs and mill it into 1x's.  
The lower 22' is nice and straight but above that its not as straight.  

I'm going to just cut some pieces and see how the pneumatic nailer does on it .  Going with timber frame is sure beautiful but its a beyond me, at this point.










-Tim

[paul case]

nice looking log from the outside, but what does the inside look like? your tree's roots were partially rotten and broke off instead of pulling up a root ball. the wood in the butt log at least will probably have dote in it. i have seen them  that had that and the butt log was just firewood.

now i am curious. shoot us another pic of that log cut off the stump will ya? pc

[Magicman]

Start bucking from the stump.  You probably will have to "jump butt" it several feet to find good wood.  When sawing, you probably will have to saw parallel with the bark and leave a tapered pith.

[chainsaw_louie]

Here are some of the pictures I took today, it was kind of disappointing when I cut into the log and water  started pouring out.
Oh well....

This is the upper section of the tree


looking good


now there's trouble...mid section had a hole that let water and squirrels in ...wont be getting many bf of white oak siding out of that log


butt end of the tree with the root off ,  some punky areas and a little rot which does not appear to go up more than a foot .....I hope


more white oak and squirrel dung compost, this looking down into the main trunk section 20' from the stump


Tim