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Central Boiler E Classic 2300

Started by Joyce Lehman, August 30, 2011, 03:29:50 PM

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Joyce Lehman

My husband and I bought the 2300 in 2008.  By last October we had numerous problems and by December of last year we had to go back to using our propane furnace.  We have tried to reach our dealer numerous times with no response. We have called Central Boiler directly.  They told us if the dealer would ship the unit back they would fix it for $400.  We can't get the dealer to do that.  The dealer just called us today and said we could get a new E Classic 2400 for $4000.  What is anyone's opinion about having the 2300 rebuilt or spending more money with a dealer that is bad to say the least?  Shouldn't all of the broken things be covered under warranty?  Any help would be appreciated.

beenthere

Welcome to the Forum.
We don't air out the laundry here regards a dealer, but would be interested in what the problems were that you encountered, and possibly could offer some help to fix them. Many here have direct experience with the units.
What were the problems with the 2300?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

buckgrunt

I also have an E-2300 and it was manufactured in early 2009.  I am sorry to hear of your problems.   Last winter was my first season and I will be starting my 2nd season with it.  I have had no problems with mine and I am quite satisfied.  The only "issues" I had was that I burned 10 cords of wood, which was little more that I was planning, but not at big deal.  My fusion combuster also cracked slightly and my dealer replaced it with a new and improved one at no charge.  You have me a little concerned.  I am curious as to what your problems were with it.    I have seen the new 2400 and CB appears to have made some improvements that include more air holes and a better heat exchange system.   I have heard of CB actually replacing some of the older/"defective" 2300s with the 2400s for free (installation not included). You should push for that.  As stated above, please post the problems you have so that I can possibly "prepare myself". 

Joyce Lehman

Thanks for responding.  My husband tells me the problems are:  the igniter doesn't work, the tube end is broken and the ceramic is broken. This is a part that was ordered last December and we still haven't seen it.  The main door is warped and the gasket is bad, the damper won't stay open, 7 air holes are badly cracked and warped, the air hole to the reaction chamber is cracked, the reaction chamber door is warped, 6 ends of curved metal are burned off.  My husband has done the required maintenance on it.  We have always had a wood burning furnace in our houses.  This is our first boiler system.  It seems to be more trouble than it is worth.  This may not be the place to air grievances with dealers but we don't know what to do next since the dealer won't return our calls.

superwd6

If yours originally had firebrick lining the sides I would push for a 2400. Mine is March 2009 2300 model without the side bricks. My fusion cumbustor & complete loading door were replaced under warranty. Still very happy with the dealer, Boiler & Central Boiler. ;D

Logjam

Sound's like you got one of the first one's . I know they had something wrong with them. I should know i work for them.

Dean186

Quote from: Joyce Lehman on August 30, 2011, 03:29:50 PM
The dealer just called us today and said we could get a new E Classic 2400 for $4000.  What is anyone's opinion about having the 2300 rebuilt or spending more money with a dealer that is bad to say the least? 

I would spend the money and upgrade to the E-Classic 2400.  It is a completely different stove than the early E-Classic 2300s.

doctorb

I,too, have a 2300, built in 3/09.  I too have a new door, have replaced the gasket, and a new fusion chamber. These upgrades / changes have been widely reported and are fixable. If you have an earlier design, I would upgrade   I am happy with the performance of my stove.  Lean on CB if your dealer is not responsive. Document your attempts to get this fixed through your dealer. CB wants the dealers to handle such matters, but I believe they will step in if you persist.  Kelp us posted.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Joyce Lehman

Thanks to all.  Yes we did have the fire brick that we were told to take out and they came and drilled more holes in it too.  I am going to call CB in the morning. Will keep you posted.

stumper

What is the scoop about CB replacing the older/defective ones?  I have one of the old style with the side fire bricks and have had a list of problems.  Nothing catastrophic, but still a sizable list.  Satrting with the paper clip, now timer fix, through the waped door replacement.  It sure would be nice to have a working production model instead of the "experimental" early production model I have. 

The good news is that with Irene free firewood is plentiful now.

Joyce Lehman

Just talked to the head of service at CB.  He is well aware of my situation and there is nothing he can do for me. Does anyone really know for sure if replacements were given?  Next step is Attorneys General offices in Minnesota and Illinois.

doctorb

Joyce-

I just reread your list of problems with your 2300.  I think the reason you are getting minimal movement from CB is that the problems you list are not warranty issues, for the most part. 

The fusion chamber is definitely covered.  My dealer switched it out for me.  Is CB unwilling to send you a new one?  If so, is that because they do not have replacements for your earlier model or is it because it has to be sent to a dealer and not a customer?

They also sent me a new replacement inside for my firebox door, which my dealer installed.

If the cracks by the air holes do not threaten a weld, and you do not have a leak in the water jacket, then they have always said to continue using the furnace with these cracks.  This bugged my a bit as well, but, after drilling more air holes as CB suggested, the performance of the stove improved.  I have several cracks starting in three air holes, but I don't worry about them any more.  My recollection is that CB has a history of replacing the stove if you have a water jacket leak. 

Almost all 2300 users have reported warping of the inside of the reaction chamber door.  CB says to ignore that....and I have, with no problem.

I have never heard of your problem with the damper, but there was a recall of some part back there a year ago and my dealer installed it.  Maybe that's why I have not experienced it.

So, I hear your frustration.  My question is.....what did CB offer to do about your dealer's lack of response?  Are they going to call him?  "Encourage" him to come and fix these problems?  I will tell you that my dealer asks for payment for his services if it's not a warranty item, and I have no problem with him being compensated for his time.  He's not paid by CB.  You might offer your dealer payment for his time if he would come out and work on your list of problems.  Does your dealer have a lot of experience with these things, or is he avoiding you because he doesn't know squat?
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Joyce Lehman

CB doesn't want to hear our complaints anymore about anything.  We do pay the dealer and his installers directly for anything they do.  We have spent over $19,000 with them. 

We have an outbuilding with in-floor heat, our house, water heater and a hot tub are all heated by our boiler.  We have the dual fuel model and the igniter hasn't worked since December 2010 so my husband was out there all the time relighting fires all winter. We are still waiting for service on that. I think that would be a warranty issue.

The temperatures in the house ranged from high 80's to low 60's. I don't know the cause of that.  Do you think with all the cracks, warps, and broken/burned pieces that the unit can perform the way it was advertised?  That is something no one seems concerned about. 

I don't know what the story with our dealer is.  I would like to talk to another dealer but I think they have protected territory. We should have known when we bought in June and had to beg to have it installed by late October.  Every dealing with this guy has been like that.  Takes months for anything to happen.

Now he has come up with an offer to have the thing rebuilt for $400 and $220 shipping or we can buy a E-2400 for $4,000.
I guess we are buying the new model but I feel completely raped by the company and this guy.  Sorry, but I am getting an ulcer from this.  We are in our 60's.  This was supposed to last us our lifetime and we are out of money.

doctorb

Joyce-

I am concerned about how you've been running your boiler.  I know that, with your list of issues, it's easy to blame the machine and the dealer for these problems.  But I would like to give you a different perspective, in spite of the dealer problems you've described.

I, too, have a dual fuel model.  I have never been out "restarting fires all the time."  I have never even hooked up the dual fuel option on my boiler and I wish I had never purchased one with that ability.  For my purposes, it's simply not needed. So something is very wrong with the boiler, or the way your boiler is run, if it doesn't give you a full 12 hour burn, minimum.

Is your problem that the boiler burns through allthe wood you feed it over a short period of time, or is the problem that the fire just goes out over time, leaving you with smoldering wood in the wood box?  If we can correct that issue, you will be happier in spite of some warping and the need for a new gasket.

You will find lots of experience here on the FF to help diagnose these problems, because we all had a learning curve with these things.  So I hate to take the focus away from the "bad CB" and the "bad dealer", but allow me to explore the way you run your stove to possibly help you.  In the vast majority of cases, operator error has as much to to with 2300 frustration than the machine itself.  Now certain things are gonna need to be corrected, like the damper door.  But you can burn a cracked fusion chamber for a long while. 

If all this is too much, and you and your dealer are obviously not getting along, I would not suggest you upgrade to the 2400, even though its a big improvement.  You need good dealer support to consistently be happy with OWB's.  If you don't have it with CB, see what other manufacturers have dealers in your area.  while a new stove  from one of them will be more costly, it might save you a ton of future gastric acid secretion.

Anyway, tell me how your stove runs.  How often do you feed it?  How often does the fire go out?  Is the fuel totally consumed or is it smoldering?  Is your wood dry?  etc.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

ronwood

Joyce,

You would be wise to have a discussion with doctorb.  I have learned a lot by his post. Try and break it down into simple steps and try to solve each of those. He can be a big help along with some of the other folks on the forum. 

I have a traditional central boiler owb and it has performed well. The dealer that I bought mine from is now out of business and I am working with another dealer that has been great. CB relies on the dealer to provide customer service. That is what they are paid for.

Ron
Sawing part time mostly urban logs -St. Louis/Warrenton, Mo.
LT40HG25 Woodmizer Sawmill
LX885 New Holland Skidsteer

Joyce Lehman

We only burn downed wood.  We have never burned green wood.  We built a shed with doors and there is usually half a seasons left from the previous year. My husband uses the oldest first.  The first 2 winters we were able to fill the boiler twice a day.  Last winter many times we were unable to keep fires going and the wood would just smolder. When it was working we were happy with it. He is pretty meticulous about his machinery and I think he does the maintenance that is needed.  He has had Vermont stoves, wood burning furnaces, in all about 5 over his lifetime.  We have a neighbor who bought a traditional CB OWB the same year we bought ours. He has had no problems. We may be the problem.  What else do we need to know?  

stumper

OK.  Have you installed your paper clip or pulse timer?  Are your air holes clear?  Can you feel air coming out of each one with the boiler calling for heat and the door switch depressed?

Joyce Lehman

Never heard of a paper clip or pulse timer.  Air holes are clear.

doctorb

Joyce-

If the fire is smoldering out with adequately dried fuel, which seems to be the case, your fire is air starved.  Here's the list of things to check:

1.  Is the fan working?  Can you see the smoke blow away from the holes and the coals increase in their glowing when the fan is on?  Do this by watching the fire when the coals are llow and reasonable, leave the firebox door open, and hold in the little depression swith that senses when the door is closed.  If you see the fire react to all the air holes, then you are good.  Can you hear the gasification occuring?  It should sound like a jet engine.

2.  Scrape and poke all air holes clean.  Use a coat hanger or other malleable device to open the air channels behind and connecting the air holes.  Do this when the fire is out.  Creosote can build up within the channels, so that, even though the holes look good, there is inadequate air flowing to the fire.

3.  CB came out with an upgraded fan from the original 2300 design.  Get one - somehow - and install it.  You need more airflow.

4.  Check to see that the solenoids are opening appropriately.  you will see them open on low burn and the second on on high burn cycles.

5.  Pull off the upper left solenoid.  this is the one that most commonly gets blocked by ash and creosote.  Use a coat hanger and a shop vac to remove all debris from this channel.  Remember, if your fire's going out, it's because it's not geting enough air.  You probably haven't had good gasification in months.

6.  Empty the reaction chamber.  I do this about every 2-3 weeks when I am burning heavy.  make sure that there's no blockage of air flow down through the firebox into the reaction chamber.

7.  I suspect you have had significant smoke from this unit.  Seeing smoke means that the unit is not burning the smoke (gasification) and something needs to be tweaked or cleaned out. 

8.  Use the search function above to learn the paper clip trick.  I don't have to do it, but many before me have said it helps.  It holds the solenoid open a touch allowing more air flow and more efficient burning, with better maintenance of the fire in the firebox.

There have been countless threads here on the FF about the 2300 and its problems.  As its still warm, take the time to search for them and learn how to trouble shoot this gizmo.  I'll bet, with attention to the air flow, you'll burn much better and be less frustrated.  You still need dealer backup.  I would somehow get him to change the reaction chamber, upgrade the damper parts, and upgrade the fan fo better performance.  When was your 2300 manufactured?  It's stamped on the silver plate maounted on the side or back of the furnace.

That's just a start.  but air flow is the absolute key to this stove's performance.  Keep us posted.  FF guys....any other thoughts....

Oh, one more thing.  I do not mean to denegrate you husband's experience with wood stoves.  I am sure he's very comfortable with their workings.  A downdraft gasifier boiler is absolutely NOTHING like a standard wood stove.  So, relying on his or anybody else's experience with that type of technology to figure out downdrafters is like asking a guy who builds cabinets to work in a saw mill.  They both cut wood, but the skills and experience to do both well are far apart and separate from each other.  Many of the problems people have had with these new OWB's is that they expect to just throw wood in and enjoy the heat.  There's a daily routine that's totally foreign to standard indoor wood stove use that, if not followed, leads to frustrated customers like you and your husband.   Keep asking questions.  You will get lots of help here at the FF.

No, I don't work for CB :D :D
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

superwd6

I have never needed the "paperclip" in my boiler. Low heating demand or burning soft wood would make the firwe go out easier.  All the paperclip does is feed a small amount of air to fire.  I'm a furnace service man and honestly I can't see the lighting burners working any length of time just because of the creasote  ::).

stumper

I found that I needed the paper clip to prevent the fire from going out or substancially out.  Place it in the upper selonoid to hold the cover up just a little.  I bought the timer unit this spring.  What it is supposed to do is cycle the fan on every so many minutes to keep the fire alive.  I got this because some very warm day this last spring with nobody home meant there was not heat load for hours and even with the paper clip the fire went out.

The new boiler have the pulse as a feature of the control unit.

thecfarm

Doc is right as always. Folllow his advice and he will set you right for a season of warmth. I have a OWB too. A whole differant way to burn wood. I talk about mine and I know I confuse the ones with wood stoves.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

island

I have a E-2300 that was driving me crazy,drilled the extra holes,and took off the solenoid over the fan(made more airflow) ,turned the temp to 196.Seems to be running much better.
Hey Doc, what do you think?

doctorb

I think that's great.  Are you getting gasification (smokeless combustion)?  In your case, anything to increase your airflow to keep the fire burning when the furnace idles, and to permit maximum combustion when its in high burn mode will improve it's performance.  I can't really say whether solenoid removal is the answer.  Others on the FF have done that and stated that their OWB performance is improved.  The real test will be when winter's cold demands more heat from your system.  But for now, it seems your on the right track.  Keep us posted.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

richsei

Well it is the start of another heating season and my E2300 will not light once again it is time to call CB and hear them say there is no problems with there E2300. This no light has been a on going thing from day one 2yr now. We have replaced just about everything in the control boxes and put in new burners and it may work for a day or maybe 2 to 3 weeks then back to not lighting. I cant even get the back up burner to light. Guess I'll let you know what I find out but I know what they will say.
(We can fix any problem that the stove has). I like how they want you to ship it back to them and we have to pay shipping on a piece of junk that they made and know it has problems.......... >:(

doctorb

richesi-

I would forget the back up burner.  This stove doesn't really need one.

I would make the same suggestions to you that I made to Joyce on this thread.  If the fire won't burn, it's not getting enough air flow.  Focus on each of the areas described above, and it will work.  You will have to gain more knowledge than your dealer.  That experience is right here of the FF.  Use the search button above and call up the many threads describing 2300 problems and their solutions.  I am a 2300 owner who had problems at first, but who gained from those on the Forum.  My 2300 works well now, and yours can too.

When was your stove manufactured?  It is stamped on the plate attached to the stove?  The reason this matters has to do with upgrades the CB made after the intitial 2300's went out.  If you have an old stove, then a fan upgrade may be in order.  Have you drilled the extra holes?  Have you cleaned out the air channels, air holes, and solenoid intake?  There's lots to do to make this work. 
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

richsei

Well Doc
Thanks for the info but so far I have not seen a post on here talking about the auto wood ignition only lighting for 10 to 15 sec's then going out it will do this like three times then it comes up with fire out and shuts down the stove?????  By the way all the upgrades have been made to the stove and some that no other stove has. Instructed by CB trying to fix the problem.  And also I dont use the back up burner but it would be nice if it worked I did pay for it so it should work??.

beenthere

richsei
How is the auto wood ignition supposed to work?  I'd be interested.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

richsei

The auto wood ignition works like this. When wood auto relight is enabled the controller will automatically monitor the furnace water temp to determine if the wood auto relight cycle is needed. If the furnace water temperature drops 15 degs or more below the water temp setpoint, the controller will start the wood auto relight ignition sequence. The wood auto relight sequence may attempt to relight the wood up to three times within a two hour period. When the upper burner lights it will burn until the wood auto relight timer reaches zero it goes from 5min to 30min.

This is for the most part how the Wood ignition works also but I have to press the button for it to light the upper burner and I can set it to burn 5min to 30min.

All it is doing now is lighting for like 10-15 sec's then going out. That is on Auto wood relight and wood ignition.

Hope this helps

beenthere

Can you identify where and why it fails? Not staying on long enough? No wood burning before it shuts down? No wood to burn, or the wood is too largeor too wet to light? Is there an upper burner and a lower burner? Does the burner burn gas that in turn tries to light the wood?
I might be getting the picture here, but not sure I understand yet. ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

richsei

well where and why it fails is the $100,000 question if we knew the answer to to that we would know how to fix it...
When you press the button for wood ignition the upper gas burner will light but it only burns for 10 to 15 sec's then shuts down it is supposed to burn for the time you have it set for 5 to 30 min's. Its like the flame sense is not working but it has been change out with a new one a few times. and the upper burner was changed out with a new one two times I think maybe 3 times. Gas psi has been checked that is good. presser switch was changed out this is just some of the stuff.
As far as wet wood or to big goes you dont even need wood in the fire box for the wood ignition to work it will light and burn with out wood for a few min.
And yes there is a upper burner and a lower burner the lower burner is the gas back up burner if you have the stove set to use gas back up burner it will light the lower burner when you run out of wood in the fire box and this will heat your water. But I have never used my back up burner. Only tryed it to see if it will light and it will not dose the same as the upper burner.

doctorb

I guess I still am confused.  Not about the difficulties you report on the auto relight system, but why you need it at all.  I have never even hooked up the gas - duel fuel option on my 2300, because the fire in my OWB lasts for a minimum of 12 hours every day. The only relights I did last winter were for vacation time away from the stove.  I feed my stove twice a day, often after 16 hour periods from 5am until 9 pm.

I in no way mean to avoid your question. I simply think that gas relight system should be a seldom utilized superfluous luxury at best.  I would concentrate on burning more efficiently, gaining longevity from each wood load and keeping the fire constantly going rather than any malfunction in the relight system.  If you cure the first, the second is meaningless.  Hence my previous suggestion regarding the airflow issues, as, in my experience, it is inadequate air inflow that evenuatlly leads to the extinguishing of the fire. 
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Joyce Lehman

We just had a new E-2400 installed today to replace our 3 year old E2300. $4,800 more. Talked with the installers.  They said they would be surprised if there isn't a class action suit already.  Had any one heard of one? I am going to send all my information to my attorney general.  I think we have all been taken in.

ronwood

Joyce,

Not to be rude but why would you go back to Central Boiler if you are not happy with them? I don't think a class action suit is the answer to anyone's problem.

Ron
Sawing part time mostly urban logs -St. Louis/Warrenton, Mo.
LT40HG25 Woodmizer Sawmill
LX885 New Holland Skidsteer

Joyce Lehman

We went back to them because we had so much invested already. They gave us a trade in on the 2300. 

I don't see why everyone who bought the 2300 and now is trying to live with it isn't upset.  It's like buying a lemon car.  If you had to work that hard to make a car run right wouldn't you be upset? 

ronwood

Joyce,

I think if gave doctorb a chance he could of given you some help that could have saved you a lot of money.
Sawing part time mostly urban logs -St. Louis/Warrenton, Mo.
LT40HG25 Woodmizer Sawmill
LX885 New Holland Skidsteer

Joyce Lehman

I think my husband tried and was done with the e2300.  Life is to short to be out in the cold working on a piece of equipment that is crap.

Jeff

I sure can't blame your husband there Joyce. Sometimes enough is enough and it is better for the mind and the soul to just move on.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

doctorb

Joyce-

I expect that the improvements in design of the 2400 will make things easier on both you and your husband.  Best of luck.  As we have not had a lot of feedback on the 2400, would you please return to the FF and provide a review of your experience for the rest of us.  It would be greatly appreciated.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Joyce Lehman

We just got our 2400 installed.  We haven't needed heat yet but will keep everyone informed when we start it up.

muckamuck

I think I can offer a reason why the re-ignite burner only runs for 20 seconds.  I have an early 2300 dual fuel model.  What you describe sounds like the pre-ignition fan running to clear gas and smoke out of the firebox.  If I remember correctly here is what happens:
You push the propane ignite button and a fan comes on and stays on 20-30 seconds (I forget) then if you stand right next to the propane tank regulator you should hear a soft click and the sound of propane going thru the regulator.  In 2 seconds you should hear a soft 'woomp' from the firebox as the propane lights.  Gas continues to run...   Unless, you have a gummed up propane jet.  Then, instead of the woomp you hear the gas run about 5 seconds and then the propane and fan shut down (you don't want propane going in if it does not ignite, right?).  That is what is happening to you.  So,  the solution is to pull the wires off the propane jet in the back, unscrew the 2 clamps around the rubber tube and gently pull the propane jet out (still connected to the propane tube).  Clean everything, the jet, the tube into the firebox, and especially clean the little wire ignition that sits in front of the jet.  That wire has to be clean or no spark.  Reassemble and try again and listen.  From now on use the jet cleaner wire brush from inside the firebox as in my previous posts to keep the little ignition wire clean.
Hope this helps.
Muck

njcandyman

No its the Propane Regulator they must have gotten water in it. there is a little pin hole on the side of it and sometime it gets water in there and the regulator thinks there to much presser and it stops working. Replace the regulator and that will fix your problem

hookem75

I have an EClassic 2300 that I bought in 10/08 .  I had the typical learning curve but we are extremely happy with ours.  We had the fusion chamber thing replaced at no charge and we have the cracking in the air holes too.  I live in southern Mass so it can be somewhat temperate, but we burn all year long for hot water.  I found that loading the logs left to right instead of front to back was a huge change.  I no longer need the paper clip and the fire burns great.  We dont get bridging either.   Erik

doctorb

Erik-

What size logs, both length and diameter, are you burning.  I have had more bridging this year as I am using logs that are not split too fine.  tthis seems to happen more with 12-14" rounds that are split once - in half - so I'm throwing in a pretty large half-moon!  they're two years dry, and burn well, they just seem to bridge more often.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

hookem75

They are just long enough to fit side to side in the firebox, so maybe 16-18".  I split alot of large logs so I don't have many half splits.  My wood is bordering on green, but i make sure to run with the damper open when it is above 35 degrees because it goes too long between cycles.  Smaller splits seem to work the best.

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