Timber Frame Sawhorse System (Mare & Colt) with photos!

[Rooster]

So, I've been designing a timber frame sawhorse system to be used in the field at the jobsites, and in the workshop.  I call it a "Mare and Colt".

I have to give credit to Mountainwalker for some of the inspiration...
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,35711.0.html

The Mare and Colt system has four parts:

~A timber trestle sawhorse (Mare).
~An additional timber and hoof (Colt) that is joined to the Mare.
~A re-moveable and portable tool shelf that slides into a pair of dados under the deck of the Mare.
~A series of holes drilled through the top of the deck on the Mare, used in combination with friction/ wedge type hold-down clamps.








The Mare stands 6 hands at the withers, (24 in. to the top of the deck) All of the pieces are made out of 6x8 pine. (I do have a team of Mares w/ Colts that are made out of reclaimed treated pine guard-rail posts, for use outside in the elements at the jobsite.)

I like to use 6x8s because:
~Of the added joinery needed to attach the colt and the dado for the tool tray.
~I can safely rest my boring machine on the deck (8 in. wide).
~A large framing square can hang off the edge without tipping.
~The large tenons and shoulders of the legs give more rigidity without having to use diagonal bracing.
~And I like Mares with big butts!

I chose the height of the Mare to be 24 in. because I work on a lot of 8x8s.  So, an 8x8 on top of a 24 in. Mare gives me a working (layout/ saw) height of 32 in.  I'm about 5'10 with my steel-toed loggers, and this seems to be a good height for me.  Now take someone like Jim_Rogers who is 6'3", or jander3 who I think is even taller, and this might not work for them.  I came up with an equation that might help determine the correct height for someone of a different height.

Take a tape measure and hold it along your side with the tip/end on the ground, stand perfectly straight and see where your figure tips touch the tape.  For me it is at 27in. I subtract 3 in. and that is the top of my Mare.  So feel free to add or subtract from the length of the legs to match your work height.

The Colt is also built out of 6x8s and only has one hoof. Since there is no leg, that means that the deck is joined directly to the hoof, using a 4x4 that is mortised into the underside of the deck and the topside of the hoof.  The other end of the deck has a tenon that then mates up with a mortise on the lower section of the Mare's leg. The mortise has a full housing of 1 in. so that the Mare's back hoof will carry half of the load of the Colt's deck.  This joint is not pegged so that the Mare and Colt can be easily separated, in case they need to be moved to a different pasture, or if you need to clean their stall. (Pine shavings.)  The Colt stands 3 hands at the withers (12 in. to the top of the deck.)  This step down from the Mare's deck, is used for storing beams to be worked on and also is a nice height to rest an 8x8 during the boring process, especially if you are using a boring machine.  The seat height for an 8x8 plus machine is between 20 & 22 in.  Most people will be able to rest their feet flat on the ground without the feeling that they are riding bareback on a real horse.

The tool tray is sized to allow a framing square to lay flat within the sides of the tray, as well as any number of chisels, layout tools, mallets, etc.  The dados are cut ¼ in. deeper and ¼ in. taller than the outside tray frame so that it can slide in and out. This way you can take the whole tray, with the tools that you need at any given time, and move them to any other Mare. Or, if you are like me, and you want to take your tools inside without picking them up individually, just take the whole tray out. The tray is also designed to slide under the Mare from one side to the other.  I also incorporated a couple of blocks to the underside of the tray so that it can straddle a beam at any point, and with the aide of a wedge, the tray can be temporarily secured to a beam that sits parallel  to the one you need to work on.  This way, the tools are never in your way, or sitting on the ground, or in a pail, or falling off the beam as you are using your chisels.

The final part of my system is the hold down clamps.  I will be posting photos of the clamps in action.  I have a friend who is a blacksmith, and I asked him to make me a couple of hold down clamps which are similar to these.
http://www.amazon.com/REACH-BENCH-HOLD-DOWN-CLAMP-JORGENSEN/dp/B000KUZM0S



 

I did opt to have him use ¾ in. rod instead of 5/8 in... it just seemed to hold better.  These clamps are inserted into any of the pre-drilled holes that pass through the top of the Mare's deck.  The hold down clamp secures smaller pieces of material like a 4x4 diagonal to the top of the deck with a simple tap of a mallet, driving the clamp into the hole further and wedging the rod against the inside surface of the hole.  A simple tap on the back side releases the clamp, and the work piece can be repositioned or removed completely.  This system is like having a couple more hands to hold the work instead of trying to saw with one hand and hold the work-piece steady with the other.  No more getting your leg up on top of a short piece of 4x4 so that you can pin it down with your knee while cutting the end with a circular saw.  Whew!

Well hopefully it's clear as mud.

I posted the drawings in the depository.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,52518.0.html

Let me know what you think.

Rooster

[Jim_Rogers]

Rooster:

Now take someone like Jim_Rogers who is 6'3"...

Who ever told you I was 6' 3" tall? Well, whoever it was was wrong, only 6'1"..... ;D

Jim

[dukndog]

Jim, is that barefoot or with boots on? :D   Either way, it beats my 5'5" frame of a bowling ball!!!! :'(

DnD

[Jim_Rogers]

Jim, is that barefoot or with boots on? :D   

Well, I guess it's in stocking feet, last time I was checked.....

Well all do need to figure our horses to be the correct height for us to use.....

Lots of threads about this here on the FF...

[jander3]

Rooster,

Thanks...I plan to build me some of these after a weekend of drilling on my horses which are set up for comfortable working height for someone 6' 5".   This makes sitting on the beam and running that boring machine very uncomfortable. 

Jon

PS

After dropping my framing square 643 times while laying out the plates, well, I think I am now a convert to 6" x 8" horses.

[Brad_bb]

Jim's online persona just makes him seem taller on the internet.

I had the opportunity to use Roosters Mare and Colt setup at our recent demo.  I liked them.  I'll attest that using the boring machine on beams that rested on the "Colts" was much more comfortable than on cribbed timbers(at a higher height) or on top of timber horses.  I'd do my layout on the Mares- full working height, then bore all the mortises on the colts, then go back to the Mares to chisel.  I'll also say that the tool trays were very handy in setting tools down and not having them in your way on the saw horses or on top of another beam.  Of course we were working on pine, much easier to move.  For heavier hardwood timbers, I might cheat and use my forklift to move/transfer the beams.

Good job Craig! 

[frwinks]

wow..taking saw horses to another level Rooster 8)

[Dave Shepard]

Moving up from sawhorses to something like this really makes a difference. I didn't integrate a lower work station into my trestle, as I already had a pair of large cutoffs that I use for hewing and boring. It is also fun to use something you've created that isn't just some board knocked together to get through a job. They are now a part of your tool resources.

[Rooster]

Thanks to everyone for the positive feedback! ;D

I held off on posting this thread until I has used my new sawhorses to cut a medium size frame.  The largest beams were 3- 8x8x32ft (Doug Fir) and the smallest were 4x4 braces.  I'm sure that I might find something that I will want to change about the design, but for now I am pleased with how convienent they make the framing process.

I also found that they make a nice place to take my lunch break. ;)

Rooster

Idea:  Maybe drill a hole in the Mare's deck (near the end) for a removeable patio umbrella?  TFing "rain or shine"! 8)

[dukndog]

One thing I like about this design is the "pony" side...It looks like it would be easy to configure a removable shaving pony on it...then there would be a place to create the pegs. So many possibilities for this design.
Thanks so much for sharing it!!

DnD

[Wind_Knot]

Any photos of the completed system?

[Rooster]

Well, I tried out a new camera and took some photos of the pole rafters I cut recently.  They were cut flat on top by Stumpy on his WM.  I used a wedge and the hold down clamp to secure it to the mare's deck while I used my small timber-saw to cut the rafter foot.  It felt very solid with no "wiggle", which allowed me to get a full stroke on the saw without worrying about the rafter moving around.  A quick tap with my mallet releases the clamp so I can reposition for the next cut.

Rooster

[Jim_Rogers]

Nice job but we need more photos.....

[jander3]

Rooster,

I can store those things in Red Wing for you.  Just let me know when to pick em up.

[Rooster]

Jon,

You want to store them for me at your place? Did I read that right? 

Have you asked your neighbors if it is ok to have sawhorses in your side yard? ;D 

If I did allow you to board my horses, I would only let them go to a "good home".  Will you be keeping them in the new "stable" that you built?...the one that looks like a woodworking shop?

In all honesty, I really think that you would enjoy having a Mare and Colt sawhorse system of your own.  I find the hold down clamps to be very useful, and the tool trays keep my handtools organized and easy to access.  The more I use them, the more uses I find for them.


Thanks Jon,

Rooster

[jander3]

Rooster,

The bottom of the hold-down clamp, is it just a rod?

[Rooster]

Jon,

The hold down clamps are made out of 3/4" rod, and then some forge work to shape the curved neck and foot/pad.  The holes in the deck are 7/8" and are drilled all the way through... 6".  I'll have to double check the length of the lower section of rod from the bottom of the foot to the end.  I had one made out of 5/8" rod and used a 3/4" hole, but I didn't feel like I had enough pressure. So I opted for the larger diameter rod.

The way that they work is that as you tap the curved neck on the top, the foot presses down on the surface of your work piece, and the rod wedges itself against the inside of the hole,...on one side near the top and the other side at the bottom.  The harder you tap...the stronger the clamping pressure. A tap to the back of the clamp towards the foot releases the wedge pressure.  I could have my blacksmith friend make a few and then let you try one out...if you like it then you could buy a couple.  I think that he is asking $30/ea. or 2 for $50 plus shipping. But as always on this site, please PM me if you want to place an order.

Thanks,

Rooster

[Rooster]

I have some more action shots of the Mare and Colt sawhorses.

This one is where I was using them as an assembling table for the railings made out of calf pen gates. (in background)


 

Here I am using the hold down clamps to secure short lengths of stair stringers.

  

  

  

 

And here I am using them to plane down and outside edge of the final cedar deck board with my chisel.

  

 

More to come...

Rooster

[addicted]

outstanding Rooster!!
Like you said,  the more you look at them the more uses you come up with.
Have they loosened up at all by moving them or just working on them?
Rusty

[jander3]

Rooster,

I still believe you would be best served storing those horses in Red Wing.  Let me know when to swing by and we can load em up in my truck.

[ljmathias]

I think the design with two levels is perfect, especially with the hold down clamps (which I need to find somewhere), but I just can't picture myself being able to move them for a project change- why not have two separate sets of sawhorses, and if you need to attach the pony's to the horses, use a brace or spline?  I can barely move one of my TF sawhorses by myself as it is... just saying.

Lj

[Rooster]

The other end of the deck has a tenon that then mates up with a mortise on the lower section of the Mare's leg. The mortise has a full housing of 1 in. so that the Mare's back hoof will carry half of the load of the Colt's deck.  This joint is not pegged so that the Mare and Colt can be easily separated, in case they need to be moved to a different pasture, or if you need to clean their stall. (Pine shavings.) 

This is not a tight fitting joint by any means.  It is just "dry fitted". Each piece, (Mare or Colt) can be moved independently, and then easily re-assembled in a different spot.  I chose EWP for it's high strength to weight ratio.

The hold down clamps are 3/4" rod forged to the sheperd's hook shape.  You can buy ones commercially but they are 5/8" and are more for smaller woodworking applications.  That 1/8" difference was enough for me to opt for the larger diameter.

I know that the design is not perfect for all applications, but I must have come pretty close if jander3 keeps offering to "house" them at his place up in Red Wing, MN....eh?

Has anyone else made a "team of sawhorses" like this and used them yet?

Thanks,

Rooster

[Brad_bb]

I tried the link for the drawings, but looks like you need sketch up installed to open them.  Can you post them so that they are pictures and not sketchup files?

[Rooster]

I tried the link for the drawings, but looks like you need sketch up installed to open them.  Can you post them so that they are pictures and not sketchup files?

Like in my original post on page one?  Or are you speaking of something else?

Rooster

[Brad_bb]

I'm talking about the .skp file.  I'm assuming that's a dimensioned drawing?  The pic posted in your post on page 1 is not dimensioned.