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Band blade tip cleaning

Started by 5quarter, August 22, 2011, 12:53:24 AM

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5quarter

Guys,

  While I have a spray bottle of diesel and a brass brush that I use to keep the blade clean and lubed while cutting, I still tend to get build up in the small area just below the very tip of the tooth, but not on the band body. It is heaviest on the outboard side of the cutters and not too bad on the rakers, but is very difficult to get clean. I literally have to chip it off in some cases.. If I don't get it off, the blade will still cut straight after sharp and set, but it loads up the engine more than a clean blade does and forces me to cut slower. Anybody else struggle with this? Is there a reliable way to prevent the build up? any good products out there to cut it? I run Cooks super sharps and cut alot of resinous woods (oak, walnut cedar etc...).

thanks,

Chet
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

customsawyer

I have not had the problem that you are but when I get buildup on my blades I clean them with a side grinder with a wire brush on it. You have to be careful and use the side of the brush that is turning toward the edge of the blade.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Log-ic

I had the same problem and used the same remedy as customsawyer but it is time consuming.  Now I have better control to avoid or postpone such pitch build-up, essentially by using better cooling & lubrication methods.  But there are still occasions where such pitch build-up will occur.  If the band starts go mad because of pitch build up, I take it off asap, I coil it and spray all over with TIX BIO F-12 cleaner (http://www.vecom-group.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=169&Itemid=285).  It is very similar to Stihl bio cleaner but cheaper. When sprayed on the coiled band, the build-up will literally "melt" after seconds, after which you can brush off the leftovers with a steel hand-brush, inside & outside the coiled band.  Then uncoil the band, clean with a towel and you're ready to go again.  It takes 5 or 10 minutes for a 17 feet band.  I started with this method when using TCT (Widia) bands.  I have only 1 or 2 with me, so I could not affort to put the band back in the box after an hour sawing or so just because it gets dirty.   

Pezzolato HD8 40HP diesel (2" bands) and Pezzolato MP-800 40HP Deutz diesel (4" bands)
Avant 635TDL articulated loader with various attachments
Loroch JLM-V sharpener, manual saw setting pliers
Vollmer VWM planing bench and rolling machine
Husqvarna chainsaws...

kelLOGg

I have gotten the buildup you describe but if I provide enough diesel drip to my 4-pad wipe system and/or allow the blade to idle a minute or so before I take it off I usually avoid it. I use Simonds RedStreak blades. When I do get stubborn buildup I first use an aggressive Scotch scratch pad or, failing that, I chip it off with a tool steel bar (1/4" x 1/4" x 3") that Cook send with the mill. That is tedious.

Having read Log-ic's post I will give that serious consideration.
Bob
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

Log-ic

For sure diesel or petrol will avoid (or at least strongly reduce) such problems but from an environmental perspective this is just not an option.   Here (any country in the European Union) it is only allowed to use bio-degradable products that spill into the environment.  There is also a strong recomendation to use  environmentally friendly fuels in the open air.  Even for chainsaws or blowers.  This is a legal pre-requisite  for jobs for public services, but also private customers are very sensitive for the "green" aspects.  So I have to do it with the available alternatives!
Pezzolato HD8 40HP diesel (2" bands) and Pezzolato MP-800 40HP Deutz diesel (4" bands)
Avant 635TDL articulated loader with various attachments
Loroch JLM-V sharpener, manual saw setting pliers
Vollmer VWM planing bench and rolling machine
Husqvarna chainsaws...

Chuck White

Chet
I assume you're talking about build-up on the side of the blade, in the hollow spot between the band body and the tooth itself!

What I do is run the water lube full-flow for about a minute or so when I'm ready to remove the blade, then shut the water off and run for about ½ minute or so to dry the blade.  After it's off the mill, I spray it down with Liquid Wrench or PB Blaster penetrating oil, coil the blade and put it in the box!

When I get ready to set/sharpen the blade, just hit it a little with a wire brush.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Brad_S.

I never worried about that buildup, just set and sharpen and use again and it usually disappears. Does it really add strain to your engine and slow you down? I never noticed any power loss due to it.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

5quarter

Brad...I wish it would just disappear! Without boring you with the minutae, the build up definitely affects engine performance. I probably notice it more than most because I only have 18hp to work with and am constantly it seems, cutting big wood. A bigger engine would probably take alot more resistance to load up and begin pulling down the RPMs than one my size.

Chuck...exactly the spot. Takes about 1/2 hour to chip it off and clean up with a wire brush. I have fought this since the beginning and am really getting fed up. I'm going to go through every compound I can get my hands on til I come up with something that cuts it.

Custom Sawyer...I've tried that twice now and had the blade jump out of my hands both times.

Log-ic...I'm going to look into that cleaner you suggested. Thanks
.
Kellog...my lube system is a spray bottle and brass brush. it keeps the blade body very clean, but still builds up along each side of the tip. Does your system clean the tips as well? I'm calling cooks and find out how they get it off. I'm sure they don't sit at a bench chipping and scrubbing band blades all day before grinding them. Thanks everyone for the input.

Chet
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

Chuck White

I usually only get the build-up on the outside of the blade, hardly at all on the inside.

Must be the pressure "pull-down" on the LT40 keeps it pretty well cleaned off on the inside of the blade.

Also, I mostly get the build-up when I'm cutting hardwood.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

tyb525

Chuck, I believe he is referring to build up on the back of the tooth, not the body of the blade the contacts the guides.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

5quarter

   Thanks Tyb525...To be clear, the build up I'm fighting with  is on the sides of each tooth and heaviest on the cutting teeth, but also present on the raker. does not affect the quality of the cut. Last month I did an experiment. i had two blades to sharpen. One I thoroughly cleaned before setting and sharpening. The other I did not clean. The very next log I had on the saw was a burr oak. after I had it squared up to 12x14, I put on the clean resharp and took off a few boards. quick steady feed, no drop in rpm...beautiful. Pulled the blade and put on the dirty resharp and took a couple more boards off. there was a definite difference in the performance. trying to maintain comparable feed rate caused the saw to load up and drop some RPMs. Probably too much info... but boy would I like an easier solution than what I'm having to do now.
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

customsawyer

When I am cleaning with the grinder I have a table that I put the blade on for cleaning the outside then I put it in the band roller from Cooks for cleaning the inside. I will try to get some pics today.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

kelLOGg

Quote from: 5quarter on August 22, 2011, 10:07:15 PM
Kellog...Does your system clean the tips as well? Chet

Yes. See photo. I made two of these devices - one before and one after the cut. I get a lot of sawdust buildup around them but it doesn't affect the cut and the blade and tips stay clean. I'm not proud of using diesel for the environmental issues and I "justify" it based on how little I cut (10-20 thousand bdft/year) compared to many on the FF.  I may fill my 2 gal lube tank once a year - IF I don't forget to turn off the drip but don't take these figures as very quantitative because I'm guess-timating.
Bob

Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

5quarter

Now thats what I'm talkin about! That's an excellent system you put together Bob. What material did you use for the pads? Do they get tore up near the tips? do they heat up much? How much do you figure you give up in cut width? It looks pretty low profile. I'd love to know a few technical details.

Customsawyer...I'd like to a couple pics of your setup. my setup is not really a setup...either I chip it off and clean while its on the saw or try to find space in my shop to lay it out and work on it.

Chet
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

kelLOGg

Quote from: 5quarter on August 24, 2011, 12:54:27 AM
What material did you use for the pads? Do they get tore up near the tips? do they heat up much? How much do you figure you give up in cut width? It looks pretty low profile. I'd love to know a few technical details.
Chet

I used 1.5" wide felt from McMaster-Carr. It comes in rolls and I cut it to length. Next order I will get the most dense felt they offer. What I got is a little too soft and compresses somewhat but still works well. And it does get torn up at the tips but enough fibers remain to wet the tips. The denser version will probably work better. After a lot of use the felt compresses and I replace it even though it seems to still work. I don't experience heat build-up on anything related to my bands, presumably because my engine is small and I can't really push the band to the max. Lubricant provides a cooling effect so I don't think any size engine would heat the wiper system. I give up zero in cut width because the wipers are between the drive/idler wheels and the blade guides. It's quite compact.

Actually, the sawdust buildup I mentioned earlier helps wet the blade because it absorbs diesel and provides more wiping surface. (The diesel never drips from the blade or wiper assembly.)

Two pressure screws with jamb nuts press on internal plates which press the felt against lightly (barely touching) -the top and bottom of the band. The plates have lips to keep the pad in place and a welded recess into which the presure screws fit to hold the plates in the housing. (When I turn off the engine the last piston stroke will sometimes turn the band backward and in the first design the plate/felt assembly was dragged out of the housing. The recess in the plate prevents this.

It's been in use several years and I plan for no more modifications to it. Corners of the housing do get sand (uh, sawdust) blasted and have worn but that's the only wear on it. I need to replace the pads so I will disassemble it and post detailed photos of it.
Bob
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

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