Space Exploration Moon and Beyond

[Ron Wenrich]

NORWISCUTTER wrote:
"people would be paying more taxes then they had to. "

We already do, my friend.   :

[OneWithWood]

I agree with you Tom.  Things are just naturally more thrilling when a human is involved.  I think it is the higher risk factor. And yes, no computer can match the brain, even the brain of the lowest animal.  I have often dreamed of a trip into space and looking back at the earth from the moon.  I just don't think Dubyas sincere with his vision.

Speaking of vision, my surgery is one of a series to correct a LASIK procedure that went awry four years ago.  When the doc laid the flap back down (cornea) it tore and left a lot of scar tissue when it healed.  The result was an inability to correct the vision in my left eye due to the refracted light off the scar tissue.  I am now seeing one of the leading opthamologist in the country and he thinks he can remove the scar tissue with the latest laser techniques and then hopefully correct the vision to where I will be able to focus in that eye again.  I saw him agian this morning and he is pleased with the results of the latest surgery.  We will know in a month how much more surgery will be required.  Yes sight is a precious thing and you can bet I wear safety lenses when I am doing anything with tools or waltzing thru the woods.  Besides my safety glasses are way cool  8)  

BTW the last person that held the office of president that I truly admired and felt stood on the moral high ground was Jimmy Carter.  Hopefully someone of his stature and fortitude will appear again.

[L. Wakefield]

BTW the last person that held the office of president that I truly admired and felt stood on the moral high ground was Jimmy Carter.  Hopefully someone of his stature and fortitude will appear again.

   I totally agree.  lw

[Texas Ranger]

You will forgive this Texan for a comment from the south.  We consider our Bush Presidents as the best for awhile, before that, I'll go with Theodore Roosevelt.  Oh, and Harry Truman.  Cannot go wrong with a Missouri boy.  We generally go with conservatives.

No arguments.  Just opinion.  And I hope y'all had a good Confederate Heroes Day yesterday.

[jjmk98k]

Well, the area in which I live in, near Philadelphia (mainly city folk....eeeeww YUK) are all moaning at what a waste of money the space program is.  I say to them, when you were a kid, didnt you ever dream of being an Astronaut or going to the moon?

By the time I was born,  we had already been to the moon. When I was growing up, I dreamed of being an astronaut, had a Space Shuttle model hanging from the ceiling in my room....

 I was able to watch the first Space Shuttle go up and still to this day, through all the failures, i still love watching the shuttle return to the stars.

The United States Space Program, it provides jobs for America and gives the kids a reason to dream and show a interest in science ( it did for me).... I say, keep the space program alive and well....

just my .02
Jim

[splinters]

Seems to me that finally someone has decided give the USA a vision and purpose other than govt. handouts and hope nobody hurts us.  Back in the 60's we had a pride in the country and what we could do.
As for the financing, cut down on the benefits to nonproducers. In NY about 30 cents of every dollar I make goes to social programs. I'd like to see something for my money other than Overweight nonproducers crying on the TV about how they will starve if the benefits are not increased.

[SwampDonkey]

I think space exploration is cool  8) personally. But, I have no desire to leave the big blue marble myself to live out there someplace else. Its unlikely you'll get a plant to grow on a lifeless environment, since plants also need oxygen for cellular respiration as animals do. Anyone study tree physiology ?  ;D

 ;D  I want to be the last man on earth  ;D

[Jeff]

If they ever said, Hey, we need some big guy that aint real fit to ride along as a control subject, we'll just strap him over there in that chair right next to the monkey"  I'd be the first in line!  ;D

[SwampDonkey]

@ Jeff_B

 ;D  As the monkey, or the big guy?  ;D



Those humans are not to be trusted!!

[Patty]

I've been taking an Astronomy class this semester, it is way cool. It has given me a chance to reflect alittle on this thread. Space exploration is the neatest thing in my lifetime...going to the moon, John Glen, the shuttles, all the space events of the past 35 years or so. What I think is wrong and a downright shame is that only a chosen few get to have all the fun. Why is this space exploration a closed deal; why can't we all build rocket ships and go hunting in space.I think if space exploration were open to the public, we'd been to Mars along time ago. The power of money and the exploring the unknown are overwhelming and would have been far more successful at attaining real space exploration than any government run program. NASA needs to go away, and space should be an adventure we all can achieve if we choose.

[beenthere]

I am puzzled by Patty thinking that someone is being held back by NASA, keeping the public from participating.  My guess is it has to do with money, not the 'government'. But I could be wrong. I think there are businesses that launch satellites now, if they get paid to do it. A millionaire paid for a ride to the space station, again, if I remember correctly.

I think I remember reading that NASA patents are all available for the public to use, so that shouldn't be a limiting factor.

Wonder what it could be otherwise?  Patty, how would it work if NASA disappeared?

[SwampDonkey]

I think if NASA disappeared Patty, then the rest of us have even littler chance of exploring space. Since it was several governments that put the money into research and development for space exploration on the premise of national security with their allies. The race for space was born essentially out of fears one nation would have the upper hand over the other in the arms race since the second world war. If we depended on private funding to go to space it wouldn't happen, it had to be a national dream to make it work. The average joe millionare has no need to go to space nor desire, its become mostly a novelty to them and the majority of us. Those individuals that are old enough continue to carry the memories of their achievements and are honored by nations whom were also involved. Now the next generation want to experience it with new discoveries and technologies that they believe will benefit mankind as equally or more. Otherwise, what is the purpose? Why spend my tax dollars?  ;)

[Patty]

I do not underestimate the urge for man to explore. Nor do I underestimate the power of money. I cannot believe that all inventions and exploration would stop (whether it be in space or on earth) if the government didn't fund it. Free enterprise and free markets are very powerful motivators. If man could figure out a way to earn a buck (or lots of bucks) by giving space tours, don't you think he would? I have a feeling that if free enterprise were allowed in space travel, and man could figure out how to profit from it (which he would if given the chance), then we all would be traveling in space by now.
Now this is just my opinion. But I do believe that human nature being what it is, that space would be a for profit enterprise. And instead of paying a couple thousand bucks to see Europe, I'd be looking at a vacation on the moon perhaps. 8)
All of this is speculation of course, NASA isn't going away, and I won't be traveling to the moon this spring.

[Ron Wenrich]

So, lets look at something where the government hasn't invested much money.  Deep ocean exploration.  How many commercial voyages to the bottom of the sea have you seen?

The oceans are a lot more accessible than space to commercial interests.  But, they can't find a way to make it profitable, other than salvaging wrecks.

Of course, if there was a way to put McDonalds or Sprint logo on the moon so everyone would see it on earth, that might spur some companies into action.  

Free markets only work when playing fields are level.  Govenrments work pretty hard at making sure they aren't.

[SwampDonkey]

Tom

 :D  :D Where's the eject button on this **** thing?  :D  :D


cheers

[SwampDonkey]

This is a link you may find interesting. It's not exactly space exploration, yet a similar gadget exists for space walks. I remember seeing this on TV in the show "Ark II", as a kid. I just saw a preview to one of those CBS TV cop series with it as well. In the "Ark II" TV program it was for real, but taped on video and used in many show segments.

Jet Packs

Bell Jet Pack on "Ark II" 70's TV series

[SwampDonkey]

Recently announced by a Nova Scotia firm, is the development of a plasma fuel able to increase the speed of space travel. A 7 month travel time to Mars has been shortened to 40 days. Takes less fuel than existing rocket fuel on the shuttle and is non hydrocarbon. Remains to be seen I guess.

But given time I know fuels and such will continue to evolve. Just need a kick in the pants seat to get motivated. ;D

[isawlogs]

From 7 months to 40 days .. thats a little more then a kick in the tush     You sure you read that right/correctly/wiff both eyes  ???  ;D

[pineywoods]

Recently announced by a Nova Scotia firm, is the development of a plasma fuel able to increase the speed of space travel. A 7 month travel time to Mars has been shortened to 40 days. Takes less fuel than existing rocket fuel on the shuttle and is non hydrocarbon. Remains to be seen I guess.

But given time I know fuels and such will continue to evolve. Just need a kick in the pants seat to get motivated. ;D

Already one spacecraft launched that uses a plasma rocket. Really not much new, it works exactly like your plasma cutting torch. Uses an inert gas and LOTS of electrical power. The trick has been developing electrical power systems that will provide power for long periods of time. Plasma rockets can run at full power for months at a time. They don't develop much thrust, just a few pounds, but a few pounds of push for months will result in much higher speeds than a massive kick in the pants for just a few minutes. NO details been published, but most likely the power supply is nuclear. Solar panels don't work when you get a ways from the sun...

[SPIKER]

that is the fuel used on the last deep space probe, it was launched like 2003, it is almost caught up the probe launched in like 1983 !  go figure  :D
I think it is not the getting going that maybe the fun part it is the stopping part!   but then again when you hit the surface of mars at 300Kmiles an hour you stop eventually, you just end up on the other side of the planet from the Impact site errr I mean landing site ;) : :D

Mark

[moonhill]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100107/ap_on_sc/us_sci_earth_like_planets

Hope ;D

Tim

[SwampDonkey]

I made in error in the plasma fuel. It's a new plasma rocket with a more efficient and compact radio-frequency generator to fire it.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2010/01/07/tech-space-plasma-rocket-nautel.html

"Other companies have built plasma rockets — the Soviets even experimented with the technology in the 1960s — but Nautel has built a powerful radio-frequency generator the size of a golf bag. Other such devices are typically the size of a truck."

"What [Ad Astra was] looking for was technology which would be practical to be put into space, so something much smaller and much more efficient. For a 50-kilowatt generator, this is certainly the smallest in the world that we know of," said Neutel's head engineer on the project, Tim Hardy.