iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

TK 1600, squaring the log to the log stops.

Started by Ronnie, August 16, 2011, 10:09:20 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Ronnie

I was wondering if anyone else with a TK struggles with this and if so maybe some advice. I make my first cut, turn the flat side of the log so it's against the log stops. There square with the bed because I have checked and adjusted them, look down the log it looks like it's flat against the log stops. Make my second cut and turn again and so on until I end up with my cant.  I then end up with a parallelogram. I assume my second cut was not 90 degrees to my first. It's a real pain to get it square again. I haven't found an easy way, had to shim the cant and recut. I have cut and milled 6 cedars and 2 elms so far and have had two cants end up this way. Are these just rookie mistakes or is there a better way to get a 90 degree angle out of my TK. It also has a single hydraulic log dog that doesn't seem to push the log squarely against the stops. It's not really in the middle of the mill and it seems like it would work better if it where or if there was a second log dog. Any advice on what aim doing wrong or is any one else had this problem. I don't really care for the log stops or log dogs or maybe I just don't know how to use them properly. Oh ya and the toe board jack is a joke.

Any help would be great!
Thanks Ronnie the Rookie
TK2000, JD5075, Stihl 660,270,170.

Magicman

I always have a 12" square on board.  Sometimes with very large logs that don't fully contact the side supports, the second face opening will not be square.  I will measure/check for squareness.  Sometimes a slight adjustment and a second cut is necessary.

I am certainly not familiar with your sawmill, but maybe you could have some flexing when you clamp the cant that is pushing or not pushing it and causing a less or more than a 90° cut.

I would definitely get a square and know if your second cut is more or less than 90°.  Work from there.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

redbeard

Use a torpedo level to square it. the stops have to much play in them to get you a perfect 90. I use my level always. The toe boards are excellent for leveling the log I use my blade and measure down to pith on both ends just raise head up to clear log and you can level the log perfectly. Or use a stick and measure from the bed.
Whidbey Woodworks and Custom Milling  2019 Cooks AC 3662T High production band mill and a Hud-son 60 Diesel wide cut bandmill  JD 2240 50hp Tractor with 145 loader IR 1044 all terrain fork lift  Cooks sharp

5quarter

Magicman has it right...clamping is the culprit.  I am not familiar with your mill, but assuming the stops are square to the bunks and the blade runs level to the bunks, the only other possibility is that the clamp is forcing the log out of square, maybe clamping too high or low, or applying too much force. I have had a couple slippery logs that did not want to clamp square. in those cases I take a 6' 4X4, snug it into the log and clamp them both in. Incidently, I do the same thing when edging boards on the mill, as wide boards will sometimes want to move while in the cut, especially if you're edging 6 or 7 at a time.
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

Ronnie

Thanks for the tip Magic Man on both occasions my second cut has been far from square. I guess my rooky eye didn't catch it and I kept turning and cutting. Thanks for the tip, it would have been alot easier to check the second cut and make adjustments then before moving on. I have my first customer coming over this week with 3 walnut logs. He wants some 4/4, 6/4 and 8/4 flitches. Would the best way to cut it be to take the slab off the top then flip it over and take another slab and then start on the dimensional stuff? Redbeard, so you make your first cut then flip the log flat side to the stops and use your topredo level to plumb the first cut to the bed.
TK2000, JD5075, Stihl 660,270,170.

beenthere

Ronnie
Technically, flitches are unedged slabs, usually wane (bark edge) on both edges. So you can decide from that in a discussion with the customer how much he wants un-edged. The dimension stuff is usually for building material like 2x4, 2x6, etc.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

pasbuild

Have you checked to see if your band / cut is on the same plain as your log bunks?
If it can't be nailed or glued then screw it

Ronnie

Yes pasbuild my blade is level with the deck. beenthere sorry for the jargon error, the customer does want it all cut into flitches, bark on both edges.

Ronnie :P
TK2000, JD5075, Stihl 660,270,170.

beenthere

Then maybe just live saw the log through and through. Flip 180° to keep the stresses somewhat balanced.

A search will show some examples, as live sawing has been pretty traditional in the European countries for years.

Here is an older report on live sawing vs. grade sawing and some yield comparisons.

http://www.fs.fed.us/ne/newtown_square/publications/research_papers/pdfs/scanned/OCR/ne_rp305.pdf

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Ronnie

I looked in the dictionary. But the definitions aren't in there. Live sawing and through and through could I get a definition in newbie rookie student language.
TK2000, JD5075, Stihl 660,270,170.

Ianab

Quote from: Ronnie on August 17, 2011, 01:50:36 AM
I looked in the dictionary. But the definitions aren't in there. Live sawing and through and through could I get a definition in newbie rookie student language.

Just different names for what you want to do, saw the whole log in to flitches with bark (or "live edges") on both sides.

Beenthere suggested flipping the log about 1/3 of the way though to reduce any tendency for the log to bow on the mill as you remove 1/2 the log, it could start to turn into a banana. If you see this starting to happen, you can flip the log and start again from the other side and balance out the stress a bit better.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

stavebuyer

I had an older version of your mill that had manual backstops. The "hole" the rectangular backstops moved in was probably a 1/16th larger than the backstops..so the higher you were from the bed..the more you could be off square. Turning your log 180 after the first cut will get you two parallel sides and make it easier to check for square against the backstop.

ladylake

  Flipping 180 instead of 90 will help as the log will be more balanced.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

redbeard

Yes ronnie on the second cut I level the face of the first cut that is on the stops. If the deck and blade is level then you will get the 90 degree your looking for.
Whidbey Woodworks and Custom Milling  2019 Cooks AC 3662T High production band mill and a Hud-son 60 Diesel wide cut bandmill  JD 2240 50hp Tractor with 145 loader IR 1044 all terrain fork lift  Cooks sharp

ladylake


Turning 180 really helps for keeping it square, the only time I turn 90 now is on big ugly logs that don't want to turn easy.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Chuck White

Quote from: Ronnie on August 16, 2011, 10:09:20 PM
I was wondering if anyone else with a TK struggles with this and if so maybe some advice. I make my first cut, turn the flat side of the log so it's against the log stops. There square with the bed because I have checked and adjusted them, look down the log it looks like it's flat against the log stops. Make my second cut and turn again and so on until I end up with my cant.  I then end up with a parallelogram. I assume my second cut was not 90 degrees to my first. Thanks Ronnie the Rookie


Hello Ronnie and Welcome to the Forestry Forum

I don't have a TK, I have a WM, doesn't really matter what brand you're sawing with, basically the procedure is the same.

I have made an opening cut on a log, then taken a couple of flitches off, and then turned the log (flat side against the stops).

I have come up with the same problem you have here.

I discovered that when the log was turned the first time that the bottom edge was not tight against the stop.

Rolling the cant over and over until the opening cut side was against the stops, I discovered that I could see a tiny sliver of daylight between the bottom of the stops and the surface of the cant.

Sometimes when turning the cant, the bottom will just kick out just a little.  Enough to cause the initial problem.

Hope you can visualize what I'm trying to describe.

Chuck

edit: Just put your cant hook to work and tilt the top of the cant back away from the stops just a sliver and re-clamp!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

petefrom bearswamp

Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

redbeard

 

this is when I use a torpedo level on the second cut after I have the pith level and I use the turner to bump it till its perfect. It is worth the little extra time for me to do this and I only do it on the second cut._
Whidbey Woodworks and Custom Milling  2019 Cooks AC 3662T High production band mill and a Hud-son 60 Diesel wide cut bandmill  JD 2240 50hp Tractor with 145 loader IR 1044 all terrain fork lift  Cooks sharp

millwright

I noticed on my WM with the hyd. clamp if you are too low or too high it tends to be off square, I do what Redbeard does and check with a level and adjust from there.

Ronnie

Thanks for everyone's help. I got some information out of this post.

Thanks again
Ronnie
TK2000, JD5075, Stihl 660,270,170.

Magicman

Next time you will be helping us with a different problem.  A sincere question will always get sincere answers and solutions.   :)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

5quarter

Ronnie,

   When squaring the log on the second cut. I use a 24"x16" framing square. I cannot always trust that my stops are square to the bunks, mostly on large logs, which I seem to be cutting alot more of lately...BTW.
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

Groo

I have a 2000. I always flip 180, then I still have to raise or lower the log dog a hair to get it to look right. I think the main problem is that the log dog doesn't go high enough so it clamps below the logs center and twists it a bit just because of the uncentered clamping force.

Thank You Sponsors!