Putting in an 800' driveway through the forest, advice and tips needed.

Piston · August 15, 2011, 11:55:13 PM

I don't know if this is the right spot for this, but hoping some people can chime in and give me some advice. ;D

I have a roughly 800' driveway to put in for our future home. The land was logged in the '70's and left unmaintained since then. There are a lot of pines as you can see from the pics, and some hardwoods. most trees are small, barely sawlogs. Many of the hardwoods are just saplings (small to large) so there is a good mix of trees in there but nothing overly large.

From the reading I've done, I've come up with a basic plan.

Design a driveway that takes advantage of the natural openings in the land, although there aren't too many 'openings' just some areas with less trees.

Go in with a backhoe and knock down all the trees that are in my future driveway, uprooting them in the process, then pile them off to the side....I plan on cutting the stumps off, limbing them, and saving any decent pines for my portable sawmill, and saving any hardwoods over 4" for firewood.
I'm not sure yet if I will have the brush mulched, or if I will burn it.

Then go though with my 46hp tractor and boxblade, with the scarifiers all the way down, and loosen up the soil down to 5" (the lowest my scarifiers go).
THEN, come back with the backhoe and dig up that 5" of top soil for the whole length of the driveway.
After that, I'll see if the remaining soil looks more like gravel, or more like soft organic topsoil still, and if it's still topsoil, I'll repeat loosening the soil down another few inches, and remove more soil again.

From there, I guess I'm not really sure what to do. Is there any chance that I could get lucky by digging out the topsoil and be left with decent gravel? And not have to add more gravel to the driveway?

I was thinking of instead of making a crown in the driveway to shed water, I would put a 4% slope in the entire driveway, following the natural contour of the land and have the water shed down the side of the driveway, which would be to the north in the pic. (north up)

What do you think of this plan? My equipment is a John Deere 410B 2wd backhoe, and Kubota L4610 with FEL and grapple, a heavy duty box blade with hydraulic scarifiers, and a Woods rotary mower for the smaller saplings. The tires are filled on the tractor and it weighs 5500lbs, 4wd. The grapple will be a lifesaver in itself.

How long do you think it would take to put in a rough driveway like this? 2 days, a week, 2 weeks? or longer?

If I have to add a bunch of gravel to the driveway when I'm done, I plan on putting down geotextile fabric first, and laying down the gravel over that.

The driveway will be approximately 800-850 feet long. I put in 10' contours on the map, there is a block with 2' contours where the house will be.

I'm looking for opinions or advice and tips from all you pros to make my job a little easier. I've put two different driveway routes on the map, The blue one will have slightly more elevation change but will go past some interesting features in the land, and also be easier since the woods are a lot thinner there.
The red one will be less elevation change, straighter, but doesn't seem 'natural' with the land, because I will have to take out so many pines.

I have a lot of time on my hands and want to do the driveway rough work myself, I don't mind getting help when I need it and if that is the case I will rethink my plan, but I want to take advantage of the equipment I have, and improve my skills using that equipment.
The land is in the lakes region of NH where we get a decent amount of snow. It is on the north side of a mountain but not so far down to where I won't get sun in the winter. It just won't be beating on the driveway.

Thoughts? Opinions? Criticisms?

snowstorm · August 16, 2011, 07:08:17 AM

cut all the wood brush everything and drag it elsewere and limb it . do not just wack over with the hoe. asfar as using a 410 it will work but not well . i traded my backhoe for a new excavator 20 yrs ago. dont put any sharp turns in the rd. on up hill follow the contour . coulverts you will need some at least 12" 18" is better ditiching keep the water out of the rd. for a 12' rd clear 24'. if that part of nh is anything this part of me you wont find much gravel on site there will be lots of rocks. as far as saving the loam unless you rent a screen it may not be worth it. stumps what are you doing with them? how big? depending on the size of the stumps the grade may drop a ft or more after pulling them. rought the rd in with whats there but if its to be a year round rd you will need gravel. to do it right it could take as much as a 1000 yds. dont know what the price is down there but i would guess at least 10.00 a yd......good luck

Raider Bill · August 16, 2011, 08:00:37 AM

Where are your power lines coming in? If along the driveway you may need more side clearance. I needed 30 feet, 15 on each side for power.
One thing I did wrong is I didn't use big enough gravel for my base. Mine was 1" should have used at least twice that size.

thecfarm · August 16, 2011, 08:09:22 AM

I'm sure no expect,but I do know,if you dig a stump out,it seems to last forever out of the ground. I leave it in the ground it will rot away in 5-8 years. I can understand why you want them out of the ground because of the driveway. If I made a driveway out through my woods like the way you want to,it would be quite a mess.I would take a few trees at a time and cut them down in the driveway,not off to the side and deal with the wood and haul it down the driveway,than dig out the stumps,if you want too.Even if you dug out the stumps,I would think there would still be alot of roots from smaller trees and from the trees on the side of the driveway,that the box scraper would have a hard time with.I'm not even going to mention the rocks that I would find on my land. I've seen the pile rocks on your land. I can not believe the farmers before you got them all. ;) You will have to haul in something no matter what. You HAVE to have the driveway above the ground. I have a 500 foot driveway so I know this.The higher the better. What about power? Cost me about $10 a foot to get it here. But that varies even on the next road over. Depends on who own the poles,ROW and more.Could just pay for the power yourself.I know of a guy that did that,but he is an electrician too.I have no idea the cost of it. When he feels he needs to trim the lines,he calls up the power company,they shut the power off to his road and he starts trimming.I thought about under ground. Kinda wished I would off,looks better,but the at least $10,000 kinda made my mind up. But only one tree is close to the lines.

snowstorm · August 16, 2011, 08:56:57 AM

been in the dirt bizz for the last 25 yrs. it isnt a big job but it can be expensive. are you living there yr round? or just a camp? if its just a camp road you can pull the stumps turn them upside down put them rite back in the same hole. cover it with what you pull out of the ditichs. i have built miles of woods roads that way. works fine if you need to do it on the cheap. but you must let it dry before using it and an excavator will be a 100 years ahead of a backhoe. underground power often times is cheaper than in the air. if putting in a phone line it cant be in the same conduit as the power it must be in its own.

isawlogs · August 16, 2011, 12:09:54 PM

Like CFarm said , you need get the driveway above ground and have ditches for the water to get away. If you don't gravel it the mud in the spring will get you something bad. Get some pit run material if you can, it should have a variaty of sizes of sand/stone, I use it for the first layer and once that is packed down and formed into a road top you can get finer material to finish the job.

Piston · August 16, 2011, 04:22:15 PM

Snowstorm,
Are you saying it's better to just cut the tree down, and dig the stump out later, than it is to knock it down with the backhoe? The trees are mostly less than 14" DBH or so (this is going by memory) but the trees that size are fairly scattered, for the most part it is smaller trees. I was going to pile the stumps away from the driveway, in the middle of what will eventually be field/lawn (eventually meaning years away) and burn them down the road.
We will be living there permanently once we are finished building. I know an excavator would work a lot better but buying one isn't in the cards right now so I'll rent one if needed, but I don't believe I 'need' one, I know it would work a lot better though. My opinion may change as I start the work :D

RaiderBill,
The power will come from the road directly to the house. We haven't made a decision on what we will do yet as it will depend partially on the cost difference, but we are looking into underground power and would rather that. It will also depend on the digging. Not sure yet if we'll go along the driveway with it or in a straight line, again that will depend on cost as well.

We hope to eventually clear out quite a few of the trees, not right next to the road (to allow privacy from the road) but maybe a few hundred feet in, and then clear and thin out a lot of trees along the driveway in the 'yard'. This would be undertaken after moving there full time.
One of our problems is that we live 2.5 hrs away now. We are thinking about renting a house in the area while we are having this new one built. I will be having contractors do the work for the house but I will do a lot of the site work, although not by myself. I figure I can start working on the driveway in the mean time and if I don't get it done by the time we're ready to put in a foundation, then I may hire the rest out.

This is all still in the planning stage and nothing is concrete yet. We still need to have the land surveyed and put in our name. I'm waiting for the estimate from the surveyor right now.

red · August 16, 2011, 04:45:35 PM

whn will dig the foundation

red · August 16, 2011, 05:00:51 PM

who

snowstorm · August 16, 2011, 05:09:46 PM

yes cut the wood dont just push it over. pull the wood limbs an all limb it somewhere else. if its just brush then dig it out stumps brush an all. the less limbs brush ect on the ground the better. ditich put the dirt in the road dust it off [level] that will make your subgrade but remember some day it will be graveled so dont make it too high or narrow or real sharp turns. i have seen sevral cement trucks well drillers stuck trying to get into some of the goat paths that they called roads. dont forget someone will have to plow it in the winter. sometimes that has to be factored in. pics would really help. when you build the house lots of glass pointed south

snowstorm · August 16, 2011, 05:19:51 PM

as for burning the stumps....good luck. i have seen some try most times it dosent work well. in maine a stump is hazardess waste after its dug out. you can bury it on site but you cant bury it on soneelese land. hauling to a landfill is unbeliveablely expensive.

red · August 16, 2011, 05:36:10 PM

checkout www.cjohnhebert.com he is a very talented master woodworker click on the bottom of the page where it says my place he built a small cabin to stay in while he built a cedar cabin look how much stone he had to bring in it is worth the look thru all his posts

ouachita · August 16, 2011, 05:51:23 PM

You also need to pay attention to the curves. You want to make the driveway wide enough that you can get a fire truck to your house. I have gone through this with several forestry clients. One needed to get a greyhound type bus to campsites, the other had to get enough clearance for the fire codes in the area. The greyhound bus problem needed a tree surgeon to come in and remove branches.

It's not enough to get the clearing at ground level. You also have to have enough height clearance as well. Think ahead to all the types of service trucks that will servicing your house......propane, garbage, fire, dump trucks, delivery trucks of all sizes.

Charles Westmoreland CF, RF
Arkansas Registered Forester #1041

Piston · August 16, 2011, 06:15:04 PM

As far as burning the stumps, if that doesn't work, or depending on my mood that day ;D I may end up either burying them away from the house site, or dumping them in the back woods. Most likely not just dumping them because I don't want skunks and porcupines living there forever. I have dug some pretty large stumps out of the yard I have now in my current home, and they were absolute beasts, took forever to pull out and had monsterous root systems. I've also taken down some smaller trees in my back yard and those stumps were easy to pop out. The trees on the land are more like the smaller stumps I've dug out in the past.

That is a great idea to take the dirt from digging the drainage and deposit it on the road. Since it would still be 'not ideal' subsoil, I imagine it would be best to put the driveway fabric over that dirt rather than under? Makes more sense to me that way.
I intend to have a rather wide area cleared for the driveway. I met with the road agent from the town and he filled me in on the code requirements for fire trucks. I will use those standards as an absolute minimum and widen the trees/brush from there.

I wish I had some more pics of the driveway area. All the pics I have are mostly of either rock piles or the brook in the back of the property. I'll see if I have any pics that show similar tree growth as where the driveway will be, If not, I'll take a few pics when I go up there in the next couple weeks. I'll also line the area I intend to put in the driveway with some ribbon.

Raider Bill · August 16, 2011, 06:36:09 PM

The drive I put in is a bit over a 1/4 mile. In my opinion I cleared too much out on one side. Actually way too much but in my defense I was on a bull dozer and having a blast! I just couldn't stop myself. ;D ;D 8) Must be a city boy thing.....

Underground wire would have cost about .50 a ft more but I would have had to dig the ditch and supply the pipe which put the price out of my reach at the time. Still actually. I did underground from the nearest pole to my house 250'. We were the last property on that particular power co's area. The guy I sold 4 acres too is another Power Co and they did his underground at no additional cost.

:( Just my luck.

I wish I was only 2.5 hours away. It's 11 hours and 614 miles.

I wish I had used bigger rock I have watched a lot of it either wash away or be smashed into the ground.

Piston · August 16, 2011, 06:48:01 PM

Bill,
You made me feel like it's just down the road! ;D Now I can't complain at all!

Did you use fabric for your drive? I've read some interesting articles about how the fabric helps keep the driveway material from 'sinking' down into the subsoil beneath it. I'm gonna give it a try for the cost.

bill m · August 16, 2011, 06:49:22 PM

Dig out your drive at least a foot deep, put fabric down and fill with a 5" minus material and top with driveway mix or processed gravel. Do not use bank run. Over time frost will bring the large stones to the surface and cause problems. That is what is happening to my drive. It may cost more up front but it will give you a drive that will last a lifetime and upkeep will be a minimum.

Piston · August 16, 2011, 07:06:00 PM

I checked and I don't have any decent pics to show what the land is like. I'll get some next time up.

OntarioAl · August 16, 2011, 08:11:17 PM

Piston
I have extensive experience in road layout and construction and you have been offered some excellant advise if I may I will summarise.
1/ Cut the trees and skid them off to a site that you can process them into logs, firewood, and the limbs (piled to be burnt, buried or hauled off)
2/ dig the stumps out if it is only an access road to a seasonal camp turn them upside down as previously stated otherwise remove them did a pit and bury them.
3/ use the material excavated for diching to build the subgrade of your road
4/ depending on the slope channel your ditches off into the timber and that may mean several culverts to let the water flow to the low side and disapate into the timber
5/By all means use the fabric over your subgrade it acts like a big snowshoe spreading the vehicle load preventing rutting and saving the $$$ gravel
I have floated roads over 12 ft of muskeg using the fabric.
6/ Bit the bullet and bury your electrical service it may not be that much more expensive that poles but your maintainence cost in the future will be next to nothing(think ice storm for one example)
I buried mine up here and it the local utility will asdvise you on exactly what is required.
I hope this helps
Al Raman RPF

snowstorm · August 16, 2011, 08:26:38 PM

the reason farbic is used is to keep subgrade from mixing with the gravel on wet ground. in wet spots it can save on gravel costs. on the 5" minis its great but it costs more. we call it tailings. it comes off the screen when screening gravel. bank run is fine if its mostly under 5 or 6". the rocks will punch down when its pushed over with a dozer. the more its pushed the better it packs do it in 8 to 10" lifts start at the road and work your way in that way the trucks are backing in over it packing it. you will find the weak spots that need a little more. when your house is built everything that needs a big truck to get in there. thats the time to surface it. 4to 6" of screened gravel 1" then calcisum keeps the dust down binds it together

Piston · August 16, 2011, 09:15:11 PM

Thanks for the great advice guys ;D
I've learned a lot so far and know I have a lot more to learn. I'm also reading through a 100pg booklet put out by the state of maine on gravel roads.
I appreciate all the good info and tips and tricks. Keep them coming if you have more. ;D

I have to ask, because to an unexperienced driveway builder like myself, why do you cut the trees down and THEN dig the stumps out? Rather than just knocking them over? Most of the trees are going to be light enough for me to drag (even carry for the smaller ones) over to my landing site, where I could limb the tree, drag it to the next station, top it for firewood, drag it to the next station, cut the stump off leaving the sawlog, and then drag the stump to the stump pile? All at once. I'm curious why it's better to do the extra work of cutting it down, and then the time consuming task of digging out all the stumps? I'm not questioning I'm just trying to learn. ;)

bill m · August 16, 2011, 10:11:39 PM

The 5" minus product I was referring to is made at a local stone quarry and it costs less than processed gravel. It is made from crushed stone and has everything from dust up to 5". It compacts better than bank run or processed gravel. Tailings are the stone that has been screened out of processed and has no fines in it.

John Mc · August 16, 2011, 10:33:54 PM

If you are thinking of going underground, keep in mind that there is probably a limit to how long a run they can pull the cable through. The straighter your run, the more they can push the limit. We pulled ours 600 feet in a fairly straight line fro the last pole, then placed the transformer at the end. From there we split running 300+ feet to one house, and 300 feet to our neighbors. We could not have done the 900 ft total run (with a 90 degree bend) to our house in one pull, but with the transformer, we had an excuse to break it up into two pulls.

My neighbor is pretty handy with heavy equipment and had access to an excavator from work, which made it more affordable. He dug the ditch, ran the PVC conduit and strung a light line through it as he went. Power company used the line to pull a rope through, then pulled the cable back through.

Piston · August 16, 2011, 11:06:22 PM

Quote from: bill m on August 16, 2011, 10:11:39 PM
The 5" minus product I was referring to is made at a local stone quarry and it costs less than processed gravel. It is made from crushed stone and has everything from dust up to 5". It compacts better than bank run or processed gravel. Tailings are the stone that has been screened out of processed and has no fines in it.

Thanks for explaining that Bill, the gravel 'terminology' is confusing to me, such as bank run or #2 something or other, or fines and those terms.

Piston · August 16, 2011, 11:08:51 PM

Quote from: John Mc on August 16, 2011, 10:33:54 PM
If you are thinking of going underground, keep in mind that there is probably a limit to how long a run they can pull the cable through. The straighter your run, the more they can push the limit. We pulled ours 600 feet in a fairly straight line fro the last pole, then placed the transformer at the end. From there we split running 300+ feet to one house, and 300 feet to our neighbors. We could not have done the 900 ft total run (with a 90 degree bend) to our house in one pull, but with the transformer, we had an excuse to break it up into two pulls.

My neighbor is pretty handy with heavy equipment and had access to an excavator from work, which made it more affordable. He dug the ditch, ran the PVC conduit and strung a light line through it as he went. Power company used the line to pull a rope through, then pulled the cable back through.

Thanks John, I definitely prefer going the underground route, and as long as it isn't something like twice the price of running power poles, then I think I will certainly do it. That is good to know about the length of run they can pull cable through. I have no idea what NH's rules are for running cable underground, or how much it may cost. I haven't priced that yet and also have not been in touch with the power company. I'm hoping to get some info in the next couple weeks when i get up there. You guys are helping a lot though.

Radar67 · August 16, 2011, 11:42:02 PM

I ran my electrical underground, was one of the best choices I made. The overhead would have been $12000.00, I got underground for $3500.00. My driveway will be 900-1100 feet long and I have read the same information about building the road bed up and using the bigger gravel to start. I have a 10-15 degree slope to deal with on mine. It is a red clay hill and gets extremely slick in wet weather.

Piston · August 16, 2011, 11:47:57 PM

Quote from: Radar67 on August 16, 2011, 11:42:02 PM
I ran my electrical underground, was one of the best choices I made. The overhead would have been $12000.00, I got underground for $3500.00. My driveway will be 900-1100 feet long and I have read the same information about building the road bed up and using the bigger gravel to start. I have a 10-15 degree slope to deal with on mine. It is a red clay hill and gets extremely slick in wet weather.

WOW! That is encouraging news! I hope NH is similar in it being cheaper to run underground. ;) I figure I can at least save money on the excavation because I can dig the trench myself.
I believe the steepest slope I will have is right around 7%-8% so shouldn't be too bad, that is only the beginning 80' or so, the rest will actually be pretty darn level. I'm glad you said you've been reading the same info for building the road bed like that, sounds like I'm getting some great advice.
Do you mind sharing some more details on how your building up your road? Are you using fabric? If so, what kind? I haven't looked at all the options yet as it's still a ways away, but I figure it doesn't hurt to start learning early.

beenthere · August 17, 2011, 12:10:58 AM

Piston
If you can find out what is under the surface for your road, it will help to know if fabric is needed.

My 600' drive came in on the terminal morraine of the last glacier, so it was solid with glacial till dumped thousands of years ago. No dirt, no clay, just gravel. So no fabric needed.

Should be some soil surveys that you can get your hands on, or just chat with some locals -either neighbors or road contractors/truckers, or quarry operators.

BaldBob · August 17, 2011, 04:22:12 AM

You've received some excellent advice so far - especially that from OntarioAl. One thing I would add, one of the first things you need to decide is how wide your running surface needs to be to accommodate the vehicles that will use the road and to plow snow ( add a foot or more to that width in curves for every 10 deg. of curve). Make sure to clear your initial subgrade wide enough to accommodate that width of running surface plus an allowance for a 3:1 slope on either side for the fill material from the ditches and the depth of rock. i.e., if you pile soil 8" deep and put on 8" of rock(after compaction) on that, the initial subgrade needs to be 8' wider than the planned running surface (16" x 3 = 48" on each side). You could get by with a 2:1 or even 1 1/2:1 slope, but the road will be much easier to maintain, will hold up better and be considerably safer with a 3:1 slope on all the fill material.

The lead-off ditches that OntarioAl mentions should be spaced so that there is at least one for every 5' change in elevation, to avoid down cutting of the ditches. For a 4% grade that would be one every 125'. BTW the road will hold up better if you roll the grade slightly every few hundred feet rather than maintaining a constant grade for the whole distance. Some would say that the requirements I've stated are overkill, but my experience designing, supervising the building of, and then being responsible for the maintenance of hundreds of miles of logging and access roads on the large industrial timberland holding that I managed showed me that by following them you will save lots of money and headaches in the long run.

Also, in your part of the world, you should make clearings to the side every so often where a plow can push the snow away from the road.

thecfarm · August 17, 2011, 06:30:21 AM

I have a 500 foot driveway. Plowed it one winter,got a snow blower,behind my tractor,the next and never looked back. In IMO a snow blower is so much better. Even if the snow is wet,it will still throw the snow.No need to plan or think about more snow coming. Just clear what you need. Use the fabric. My Father and me put the gravel to the woods road,We did not know about fabric. The trucks punched it right down into the ground. They put it down in my drive way 11 years ago and I am still above the ground.

isawlogs · August 17, 2011, 08:06:37 AM

Snow dumps are always a good thing , ya never know when the blower will need fixin', usualy happens when the two foot storm comes in :

:D

Raider Bill · August 17, 2011, 08:57:15 AM

Quote from: Piston on August 16, 2011, 06:48:01 PM
Bill,
You made me feel like it's just down the road! ;D Now I can't complain at all!

Did you use fabric for your drive? I've read some interesting articles about how the fabric helps keep the driveway material from 'sinking' down into the subsoil beneath it. I'm gonna give it a try for the cost.

No I didn't use the fabric. Didn't know about it and actually I probably wouldn't have only for the reason I was building out of pocket and was counting pennies. Hind sight again.........

This is when I first got the drive in and graveled. The truck is at the half way point.

Now mostly the gravels gone and all's left is red clay

isawlogs · August 17, 2011, 09:02:55 AM

Bill , you really where having a good time on that dozer :D :D

Raider Bill · August 17, 2011, 09:13:52 AM

Heck after the first one I rented I was surprised they let me have another one!
I missed my calling, turns out I like smashing things down with massive horsepower. 8) 8)

submarinesailor · August 17, 2011, 09:51:59 AM

Quote from: Raider Bill on August 17, 2011, 09:13:52 AM
Heck after the first one I rented I was surprised they let me have another one!
I missed my calling, turns out I like smashing things down with massive horsepower. 8) 8)

Who does like it. :D :D :D :D :D

Bruce

BaldBob · August 17, 2011, 02:16:42 PM

Unless your subgrade is quite stable or impervious. much of the cost (or all, if rock costs are very high) of fabric will be offset in the short run by needing less rock. In the long run, fabric will pay for itself many times over.

Holmes · August 17, 2011, 03:44:06 PM

I would recommend you do not bury the stumps. It is not legal to do in many states. Recently a stump dump polluted the well on the property it is on. The pine resins made the well water taste like oil. Holmes

Piston · August 17, 2011, 04:17:06 PM

Quote from: beenthere on August 17, 2011, 12:10:58 AM
...Should be some soil surveys that you can get your hands on, or just chat with some locals -either neighbors or road contractors/truckers, or quarry operators.

I have the Merrimack and Belknap Counties Soil Survey from 2005. Does 143D mean anything to anyone? That's the number in the zone that my land is in, but I have no idea what it means.

Piston · August 17, 2011, 04:57:52 PM

Quoteou've received some excellent advice so far - especially that from OntarioAl. One thing I would add, one of the first things you need to decide is how wide your running surface needs to be to accommodate the vehicles that will use the road and to plow snow ( add a foot or more to that width in curves for every 10 deg. of curve).

I looked in the copy of the driveway regs I have and it lists any driveway over 500' must be 14' wide. It also says the max width of any driveway can't exceed 16', soooooo, I guess that pretty much means my driveway will be between 14'-16' wide. :D

Piston · August 17, 2011, 06:02:14 PM

Great pics Bill, Looks like one heck of a spot you got there! ;D

Quote from: Holmes on August 17, 2011, 03:44:06 PM
I would recommend you do not bury the stumps. It is not legal to do in many states. Recently a stump dump polluted the well on the property it is on. The pine resins made the well water taste like oil. Holmes

I hate stumps, it seems like there isn't anything good you can do with them!

Holmes · August 17, 2011, 06:54:01 PM

I hate stumps, it seems like there isn't anything good you can do with them!

You could use them to make a great looking fence for the dogs ... :D ;D

isawlogs · August 17, 2011, 07:57:09 PM

Farm next to my dads was opened up in the early 1800's . The trees where fell and the stumps pulled with a tripod and ox or horse, stumps where ligned up at the edge of the bush and left there as a fence, well that fence is still there. I wish it was on our place, man does it look good.

Piston · August 17, 2011, 09:10:15 PM

Hmm, a stump fence? Might have to think about that. ;D

thecfarm · August 17, 2011, 09:22:25 PM

Driven regulations? We provably have them now. No such thing when I put the driveway in. Now the Building Inspector wants to know about every little thing we do. I should of told her about the cover up we are using for a veggie stand. :

Did not know until I went to the town office to register the car and saw the notice on the door. Give someone a title and the power goes to thier head.

Piston · August 17, 2011, 09:38:42 PM

I hear ya Cfarm. I'm hoping they won't be too crazy with enforcing some of the code regs. The good thing is I've spent a lot of time talking to the building inspector and he seems like a really straightforward guy, he even told me that as long as what I'm doing makes sense, and isn't dangerous, he won't have a problem with it. I want to get the house built while he is still the inspector!
The road agent seems pretty easy going as well. My dad has worked with him in the past on some roads and he wasn't hard to work with. Hopefully they aren't having a bad day when I submit my plans!

Don_Papenburg · August 17, 2011, 11:14:43 PM

The 143D is a soil type number used by USDA . There should be a key somewhere that tells you the soil name , if it is a loam ,clay , sand or gravel . The letter gives the soil class, A would be the better more productive soils .

Radar67 · August 17, 2011, 11:32:13 PM

I have not made my final decision on my road yet. I would eventually like for it to be cobble stone. I lived in Germany for three years and really liked those roads. My road bed is fairly stable and packed pretty good. It is a clay base and gets rather slick when wet. I want to use the fabric, but am having a hard time locating it locally. It is on the high side price wise, but if it will save having to replace gravel down the road, it can pay for it's self. I will initially have to haul in some red sand/clay gravel to keep the road from being too slick when wet.

I will be doing some box blade work in the next few weeks, getting the crown and wash outs like they should be. There was some damage from the well drilling and the electrical (rutting), so now that the heavy trucks are done for a while I can repair it and start getting the clay gravel in.

Raider Bill · August 18, 2011, 09:51:10 AM

One of the several mistakes I made putting mine in was drainage in a few areas. Because I'm on a hill the water needs to cross somewhere. This is a constant battle in a couple places.

isawlogs · August 18, 2011, 09:59:05 AM

Bill , ya need a solution to that issue ? ;D Paint a culvert ;D

Raider Bill · August 18, 2011, 10:06:30 AM

I put 1 in already, I'm learning. Need some kind of catch basin in front of the pipe to catch my red clay and driveway stone from washing away.

isawlogs · August 18, 2011, 10:10:20 AM

I am guessing here that you might be in need of a few more culverts or , a better crown on the driveway. Either one will get you the material runoff that you are experiencing.

Raider Bill · August 18, 2011, 10:28:42 AM

Quote from: isawlogs on August 18, 2011, 10:10:20 AM

I am guessing here that you might be in need of a few more culverts or , a better crown on the driveway. Either one will get you the material runoff that you are experiencing.

Basically it was poor planning and lack of knowledge on my part. Most of the drive drains ok but I have one are that runs alongside a small hill which rounds a corner and the area that goes in front of the double wide I lived in while building. Here you can see the the small hill on the far right and how the water needs to cross the drive.

Patty · August 19, 2011, 08:29:40 AM

That is beautiful country there, Raider.

Raider Bill · August 19, 2011, 08:35:03 AM

Thanks Patty! Now if I could only get up there and enjoy it.

Kansas · August 19, 2011, 08:38:32 AM

I put a half mile driveway in to get back to where I put my house. The number one mistake I made was not having a good road grader come in and build the road up before I started putting gravel down. If I had raised that road up 6" or a foot, then put the gravel down, it would have cost me less in the long run, and I would have had a lot better road.

shinnlinger · August 21, 2011, 09:08:43 AM

I am just up the road from your house site in NH and I put in 500 ft of driveway thru my field a few years back. My understanding are state regs are now 21 ft wide driveways for fire trucks, and at 800ft long you may want it that wide regardless so double check. Sometimes the locals are behind the times, but then again there is a massive upheaval at the state level right now, so who knows? Live free AND die!

I stripped my top soil and put down fabric and have put some 1-1/2 hardpack on that, but I need more and then plan to top that with 3/4 hardpack. IN hindsite I would have put down more and bigger stone for a base but $$$ is always the issue.

I also buried my electric and split the pull at the meter half way, might be another way to break up your pull.

My one observation is that you are going to dig up some big rocks from the glaciers in both your drive and at your house/septic site and you are going to drive yourself mad (and beat the snot out of your machine) trying to do all your work with a loader/hoe. I encountered some boulders/ledge even my 40,000 machine couldn't move in places I did not expect. I suggest acquiring a big excavator for that portion of your work, you will be much faster and happier in the end and save your 410 for later.

If you need any blasting done, you can use the tailings as a road base and sometimes blasting ledge is a cheaper way to make your own gravel than having it hauled in. Don't know how close a gravel pit is to your site, but trucking is the big expense up here.

Good Luck!!!

Dave

Peter Drouin · August 25, 2011, 07:34:32 AM

shinnlinger yes there is a (upheaval) to get the libs out of state gov. and the (locals) are not behind the times. just trying to keep it a ( live free OR die ) state. the thinking of live free AND die we don;t need. we locals have made NH so nice that everyone wants to live here .

John Mc · August 25, 2011, 08:05:23 AM

Peter - I believe Shinnlinger's reference to "sometimes the locals are behind the times" was not meant as a slam against native NH folks. I think he was referring to the fact that some municipalities might not be up to speed and/or enforcing the new statewide regs for driveway width.

shinnlinger · August 25, 2011, 01:47:41 PM

Thank you John,

You are correct. I am a NH native myself and buiding in my small town has at times been frustrating when one person tells you one thing only to have another tell you something else.

As for the current legislature, I was only commenting that there is currently upheaval and getting a straight answer right now may be difficult and things may change shortly.

Dave

M-Henry · August 25, 2011, 06:32:39 PM

New forum member - retired PE - maybe a few random thoughts:

Your road will only be as good as the base - don't skimp.

I would never build a road without crown - water will be your worst enemy.

I would never use ditch material for a base - too much chance of organic material. If happen upon sand or gravel, maybe, but be careful.

Fabric works as does lime or cement stabilization - check around with road contractors or a county engineer - some material may be cheap in one state and cost a fortune elsewhere.

If there is any road work locally - see if you can get waste concrete or asphalt pavement - I was lucky enough 5 years ago to use recycled asphalt for our 1000' driveway - then as now a loaded ready-mix will not pump it an inch.

Frost might heave some larger base stone a little - but a spring walk of "rock picking" will solve that. A good solid base will make you happy years to come - future repairs could break the bank.

When I first laid out my road with nice curves, etc. - my brother in-law just laughed - good luck plowing that he said. Straight and wide - was the best advice I got.

Not sure this helps - looks like you're getting enough advice to choke a horse - GOOD LUCK

Peter Drouin · August 25, 2011, 07:26:28 PM

Maybe so Shinnlinger, but it just rattles me when people show disrespect for the state motto.

Boy, that is a long driveway you want to put in. I would not use the backhoe to build a driveway. Within a few hours you'll either have a flat tire or rip a hose off. My advice would be to cut the trees for the driveway, pile the brush, butt end facing the driveway so you can grab them and chip them later. Cut and pile the firewood beside the driveway and leave your sawlogs where they lay. Hire a professional with a triaxle and a big excavator. That way the professional will load the truck from the back, dump the stumps and come back with a load of bankrun. Then he will smooth it out and back up his truck load the stumps again, and work his way up the driveway to the house site. He will move the logs as he goes. See if you let the man with the excavator rough in the driveway then you can dress it with your backhoe after the concrete trucks and well drillers the septic installer are all done and will have settled the base gravel for you. I would make the driveway as wide as you can. You do have to think about all that snow you have to plow and room for the ditches. So cutting the trees back 25-30 feet wide is not crazy. Besides the forest will grow right back in if you let it. You can spread your wood chips on the sides of the driveway to keep the sapplings at bay. Hope this helps. Best of luck. Pete 8) 8)

Piston · September 24, 2011, 02:23:29 PM

Thanks for the extra advice, I'll keep taking the tips right up until I put the driveway in!
I finally made a date for the surveyor to come survey the land, so the second week of October he will be taking care of that. I will also be flagging out the driveway location because I need to have a wetland scientist confirm that it will not interfere with wetlands, he is going to meet me there next Wed.
At least I'm seeing a little progress, although I'm sure driveway construction won't start until spring time at this point.

I was hoping to get up to the land and take some more pics of where the driveway will be, but IRENE made a mess back home and I had to spend a week cleaning up from that, which was my week to get up to NH. So pics are gonna have to wait.

Ironwood · September 24, 2011, 09:43:48 PM

All your drives seem to be in fairly remote areas. BUT, as M-Henry stated, if (BIG "if") you can be patient try to find some local road crews or contractors n your region whom you can get loads of their "waste". I am currently expanding one of my storage area/platforms with the help of my township road crew (their stuff is usually pretty nasty, organic, slimy) which gets buried. The REAL good stuff is a local paving outfit which has 6-7 crews running constantly. They bring EVERYTHING imaginable, gravel with asphalt (my "base"), brick, rock, dirt. It takes a bit of daily care and keeping all the drivers informed, but I have saved thousands of dollars. They brought 80 ton of #3 sized asphalt from a parking lot "redo" in one day. That same day I got brick, and dirt, about 30 ton. Also, they bring hot binder and hot "topcoat" asphalt daily. Usually, it is 1/2 to 4 ton a day. I am around to get "the call" from the foreman that a "hot" load is coming, I just get on the tractor and spread it, then pack it with the truck tires. Been working the "hot" into the ditches on my steep drive that comes directly up a hollow to my house. The steep drive is topped with 8 year old hardened and compacted millings I bought when a BIG contracting company milled and repaved our main road. The millings are holding up very well, this new material just continues to improve that drive. They also on occasion bring screened topsoil. 8)

It sounds like you have the equipment, just try to find out if there is any material available in your region. Beer and "girly magazines" my female barber saves for me keep the crews happy. She gets 3-4 copies of Playboy every month for free, and I have also been know to show up with coffee and donuts, or pizza on occasion.

Ironwood

Al_Smith · September 25, 2011, 06:50:42 AM

I got in on this one a little late .I've built some drives but never 800 footers .300 is about the longest .

Now I suppose it just depends on where you live what is available as far as stone .Being in limestone country I use a minimum of 6 inchs of number 1's and 2' for a base .After about a year of driving over those rough things I lay down another 4 to 6 inches of 304 mix which contains fines as well as stone up to about 3/4" .After another couple years periodicaly top dress with 411 which is a tad finer than 304 mix .

If you live in gravel country ,bank run is a cheaper option . One thing about stone or gravel is it's like beer .You can only rent the stuff .

BTW stumps will burn given enough time .I have no idea why in the world they could be considered hazardous waste .Roll them around with a dozer to knock the dirt off and light them on fire just like you were having a wienie roast or something .Actually they do roast a pretty good hot dog if you are so inclined . ;D

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