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Heatsource1 no more?

Started by martyinmi, August 11, 2011, 07:52:30 PM

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martyinmi

Read on another OWB forum (sorry for the momentary lapse in good judgement Jeff) that Heatsource1 closed down their plant as of yesterday. They looked like a good furnace and very few people have complained about them on the net. Hope it's just a rumor. Any dealers out there who know for sure?

   Marty
No God, No Peace
Know God, Know Peace!

beenthere

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

doctorb

You wonder how many other manufactures will go belly up.  Too bad.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

boilerman101

Make sure everyone reads the article link above. This is another great reason to buy an outdoor furnace from an established manufacture...They now state all Heatsource 1 owners have no warranty. They also have played themselved up as being a "major" player in the outdoor wood furnace market with just 12 employees? Words come cheap on blogs, forums and brochures, as dealers often make big btu claims just to get you to buy their product even though their numbers are not backed up on the EPA Burnwise charts for the gassers ...Do your homework and make sure you buy from a legit company with proven field performance.  Warranty claims are cheap to make prior to the company going out of business. Just google Free Heat Machine, Pacific Western, Global Hydronics and try dialing their phone numbers, you'll find them disconnected. Greenwood Aspen and Empyre are other Canadian companies now out of business, although Pro-Fab now has their designs, but will they warranty them?

martyinmi

Quote from: boilerman101 on August 17, 2011, 12:31:54 AM
Make sure everyone reads the article link above. This is another great reason to buy an outdoor furnace from an established manufacture...They now state all Heatsource 1 owners have no warranty. They also have played themselved up as being a "major" player in the outdoor wood furnace market with just 12 employees? Words come cheap on blogs, forums and brochures, as dealers often make big btu claims just to get you to buy their product even though their numbers are not backed up on the EPA Burnwise charts for the gassers ...Do your homework and make sure you buy from a legit company with proven field performance.  Warranty claims are cheap to make prior to the company going out of business. Just google Free Heat Machine, Pacific Western, Global Hydronics and try dialing their phone numbers, you'll find them disconnected. Greenwood Aspen and Empyre are other Canadian companies now out of business, although Pro-Fab now has their designs, but will they warranty them?
Empyre is not out of business-as of yesterday they were going strong when I talked to our states distributor. You need to do a bit of homework of your own. Pro-Fab built the boilers that the Greenwood company sold. Greenwood is out of business, but the last I heard Pro-Fab was still backing their warranty's. Pro-Fab has already paid the EPA's outrageous fee's to have three models tested and probably will have to pay more to re-test under their new methodology. I've had a few minor claims with my Pro Series 100 and they are always settled in a timely fashion.
   
   Just so you know- I can build a gasifier in 40-50 hours by myself. I'm sure the folks at Heatsourse1 can build them way faster than I can. Lets say each employee can build one per week, and they work 50 weeks per year times 12 employees-that's 600 boilers per year. In the big scheme of things I'd say that makes them a big player.

   Marty
No God, No Peace
Know God, Know Peace!

boilerman101

Wow Marty, sorry to strike a nerve. I can tell you are the expert here. I was under the understanding that Empyre broke away from Pro-Fab, but couldn't make it on their own and Pro-Fab re-aquired them as they did the Greenwood. I also asked if Pro-Fab was honoring warranty on those units. It sounds like you are in the know on that too.  That Heat Source article struck a nerve with me however for all those people who laid out their money for a wood burner but now have no warranty and aren't so lucky. What's the name of your company that you are building a gasser every 40-50 hours for?

Kansas

Is the EPA going after all wood burning stoves? I made the decision to go with a gasification unit for several reasons, including that I heard OWB's would be banned within a year. Heard a number of eastern states had already banned them. What is the difference between one sitting outside and a fireplace or indoor wood burner? I would think particulate matter would be around the same on all of wood burners.

When I was checking out the gasification units, I heard a fair amount of noise about the tests. Some manufacturers claimed that certain other companies did their own testing, and the EPA was putting a stop to it, and making them retest with independent testers. What the truth really is, I don't know. One claimed that a prominent player in the field had to retest, and if it didn't pass muster, they would discontinue that part of the operation.

I don't understand why Heatsource1 would not continue to honor warranties and parts for their stoves however. If they sold the stoves with the promise of a warranty, they should honor it, or offer full money back. I don't even know if that is legal.

martyinmi

Quote from: boilerman101 on August 17, 2011, 11:31:31 PM
Wow Marty, sorry to strike a nerve. I can tell you are the expert here. I was under the understanding that Empyre broke away from Pro-Fab, but couldn't make it on their own and Pro-Fab re-aquired them as they did the Greenwood. I also asked if Pro-Fab was honoring warranty on those units. It sounds like you are in the know on that too.  That Heat Source article struck a nerve with me however for all those people who laid out their money for a wood burner but now have no warranty and aren't so lucky. What's the name of your company that you are building a gasser every 40-50 hours for?
You appear to be making a villain out of the wrong entity as far as I can see, but hey, that's just me. You mentioned the phrase "strike/struck a nerve" twice in your reply, and I guess what I'm reading into this is that you are probably an OWB dealer for a larger company, and you are trying to use someone else's misfortune to help sell your product. Whatever the situation might be here, the point I was illustrating was that our beloved EPA is way out or control, and because of their dictator style of business, many more good company's out there will be going belly up in the future also.
   The name of my company that I build gasifyers for is "my own home built gasifier just to see if I could do it". See how insignificant my company is- no capital letters, no financial backing, no share holders, just myself.
   Pro-Fab appears to be a good company that offers many products other than OWB's. Perhaps you ought to work on separating fact from fiction before slandering them.
   Hope I didn't "strike a nerve" there bro'! As Red Green would say: "keep your stick on the ice, and if the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy".
   Marty
 
No God, No Peace
Know God, Know Peace!

Jeff

I sense more than a bit of attitude in this thread. Thats not the Forestry Forum way guys. You all know that.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

doctorb

I may be creating some confusion here, or may be clarifying the testing issue, I don't know.

When the EPA originally stepped in, they took the figures and stats supplied by the manufacturers themselves to determine the general state of OWB efficiency and pollution.  They did not start their own testing until later.  Once they set up testing standards, the manufacturers started building thier machines to pass the test.  The test does not reflect real life activity in my backyard.  It reflects these machines compared against one another under specific test lab conditions.

The rumor has been that the testing conditions are going to change, but we have been given no hard info on that, as far as I know.  I would love to hear how these changes are going to affect OWB "approval" by the EPA.  I agree with beenthere (previous thread comment) that the idealists at the EPA would just as soon ban all these devices, if they could.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

martyinmi

Quote from: Jeff on August 18, 2011, 08:46:13 AM
I sense more than a bit of attitude in this thread. Thats not the Forestry Forum way guys. You all know that.
[/quote
Sorry about that on my part, Jeff. When I read or hear about someone being cut down for their lack of material things, or their lack of a name brand item, it sorta takes me back to grade school in the 60's. It seems there was at least one or two family's who didn't have much and they had to wear hand-me-downs and they were always picked on by some of the others who's parents could provide more in terms of clothing, shoes, cool lunch bucket's,etc. If you kinda' read between the lines of my posts, you can see that I am defending the purchasers of Heatsource1. We've all been in situations where we have taken the least expensive way, and it has not always worked out for us in our favor. Instead of saying "I told ya so", I think we should all try to support and help each other.
   
No God, No Peace
Know God, Know Peace!

leonz

Boy this just burns me as they can solve this EPA
requirement quickly with an old tried and true method using
a water scrubber to take out all the smoke and fumes and
just end up emitting steam.

Are these the same entity who also built the Freedom outdoor boiler
that shut up their shop too?

8)



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