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50 to 1 gas in 40 to 1 engines?

Started by bendjoseph, August 06, 2011, 03:13:00 PM

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bendjoseph

I bought a Stihl chainsaw.  It is 50 to 1.  My Echo backpack blower and weedwacker are 40 to 1.  Is it ok to run the 50 to 1 in them?

clww

What model Stihl is it? I run 40:1 in all of my saws.
Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

bendjoseph


Ianab

Personally I would run them all at 40:1.

A little more oil than spec never seems to do any harm.

The mix needed seems to depend mostly on the quality of the oil. Modern oils simply lubricate better, so allow a lighter oil mix.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Yoopersaw


Al_Smith

Ha ha ha ,I'd run it on 32 to 1 so who's right ?

sawguy21

Al, you are a stubborn ol' cuss. Technology has come a long way since your 'new' 3-25. :D  Most engines will work best on 50:1 using modern oils.  Running more oil will mean less fuel resulting in a lean burn.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

John Mc

Quote from: sawguy21 on August 07, 2011, 12:02:17 AM
Most engines will work best on 50:1 using modern oils.  Running more oil will mean less fuel resulting in a lean burn.

Which brings us to another point: Whatever your mix ratio, adjust your carb for that mix.

My chainsaws all run on 50:1, using a high quality mix oil. A weedwhacker labeled for 32:1 also runs on the same 50:1 mix, and has for several years with no problems (once I readjusted the carb for the new mix). Same thing for an old leafblower labeled for 40:1.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Cut4fun

If I wasnt running 32:1 I would run 40:1.     Just to easy to pour 4 ounces out of the bulk bottles to mix 4 8 12 16 get the idea. Plus I feel cheap insurance.
50:1 to me was a epa thing to pass emissions and a way to sale you less for more $$$.  JMO

Al_Smith

 :D I'm not going to start the oil wars again nor debate how running a heavier mix decreases the amount of oil or gas causing a lean burn .I'll only say that a majority of the race saws I've ever seen run at 32 to 1 mixture .I figured if these guys trust that mixture in a 5000 dollar hot saw I certainly can in my 200 dollar specials .Besides that fact I am an old fuddy duddy  8)

Cut4fun

Quote from: Al_Smith on August 07, 2011, 04:34:37 PM
:D I'll only say that a majority of the race saws I've ever seen run at 32 to 1 mixture .I figured if these guys trust that mixture in a 5000 dollar hot saw I certainly can in my 200 dollar specials . 8)

I even seen ratios of 16:1 - 24:1 in these saws.  ;)

Paul_H

Al,
the only time I watched hotsaws working was back in the 70's at a logger sports and those they ran for a few cuts and then they shut down and that part of the show was over and the saws were wrapped up and tucked away.
For day in day out use 8-10 hours a day hard usage we used 40-1 several years back but more commonly now it's 50-1 and the saws have held up just fine.

16 -1 is probably great for cookie cutters but it's hardly real world workaday reality. :)
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Al_Smith

 I can't argue on that because it's a preference .Yes the oil is better but I still use good oil but just at 32 to 1 because I'm stuborn .They don't smoke like they are burning soft coal or any thing .The screens don't plug up because there aren't any . :D

Most of the hotsaw crowd run 32 to 1 in their work saws and several are pro loggers  if that means anything .

tyb525

You can argue about more oil leaning out the saw all you want, only real world results can prove anything ;)
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

Al_Smith

 :D Oh here we go again .As point to ponder subscribing to the theory that using more oil increases the liklihood of causing the engine run lean would then have to assume it would be better to straight gas them . 8) Next !

Paul_H

Quote from: Al_Smith on August 08, 2011, 12:02:44 AM
Yes the oil is better but I still use good oil but just at 32 to 1 because I'm stuborn .Most of the hotsaw crowd run 32 to 1 in their work saws and several are pro loggers  if that means anything .

That's what I'm worried about.People not familiar with saws might think that they need to run higher ratios of oil because they read here that it is a better way to go even when manufactures recommend the 50-1.
In our area on the coast,all the falling is/was done with saws burning minimum 2 Imp gallons per day per faller 11 months a year.That's around 10 litres per day gasoline mixed with 200 ml oil for 50-1.Needlessly adding a couple hundred extra mls per day for 200-300 days per year, adds up to a lot of extra coin especially when a company is running 20+ saws.
I was a full time logger for the first 30 years of my working life and that's what I observed,if that means anything ;)
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Al_Smith

Well yeah it depends on the circumstances for sure .I too can easily burn two gallons a day.More if I run the 100 plus  cc saws .I don't do it everyday though ,obviously .

On the subject though just within the last hour or so I researched this subject with extensive tests regarding several types of oils from several manufactures and the tests were very interesting .The ratios were from 20 to 1 to 100 to 1 and it was surprising with consideration of the operating temperatures ,wear on the engines and other considerations during the full loaded 6 hour tests .

However you'll never run a saw fully loaded for 6 hours straight non stop unless you had a 2 gallon fuel tank so therein lies a fallacy as far as comparrison .

Now as far as ratios or type of oil I really could care less what people run in their own saws .If a person is comfortable with 50 to one or heaven forbid 100 to 1 that's okey dokey with me .

Up until about two-three  weeks ago I could have made a broad statement I never cooked one until a little faux pas occured where I straight gassed a prime by accident and smoked a top end on a classic Mac which annoyed me immensely . >:( As they say and putting it politely "things " happen for want to use much stronger words .

Al_Smith

Now just to even things out and to show I'm not one sided a little blurb about oil in general  .

I'm a child of the 60's .The Beatles,Elvis ,leather jackets ,the whole nine yards .

In those days the later 50's cars we drove as teenagers would go like 50,000 miles before they just about needed a major overhaul of the engines or at least a valve job .Fords ,Chevys ,didn't make a difference .

Now by the 80's those same small block Chevys could go 150,000 miles before they needed attention .GM certainly didn't make them any better ,the oil got better and thus it did with mix oil for 2 cycles .

tyb525

Al, I'm on your side, not against you :D

And a side note about auto history, Automakers have indeed improved their engines, and the oil quality has also improved, both going together to produce longer lasting engines.

Maybe I can run 100:1 mix in my truck's crankcase, cause straight oil might cause it to run lean and seize up ;)
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

Paul_H

tyb525,

It seems to me that running two to three times the amount crankcase oil in your truck would be more to your way of thinking.If the dipstick shows full,double or triple her and she'll run forever ::) ::)
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Al_Smith

Oh trust me you can lean burn a 4 cycle too but it doesn't have a thing to do with the oil .Kinda skewing the thread but a buddy of mine burnt holes in 3 out of 8 pistons on a cherry '57 chevy back in high scholl trying to run a 4 duece maniford with too large of carbs set way to lean .Such a pity that was .

Well in a way it does have something to do with the thread because it's not the oil that screws up the engine just bad tuning .

Paul_H


The original post-
Quote from: bendjoseph on August 06, 2011, 03:13:00 PM
I bought a Stihl chainsaw.  It is 50 to 1.  My Echo backpack blower and weedwacker are 40 to 1.  Is it ok to run the 50 to 1 in them?

The correct answer- yes if you use a good grade of 50:1 oil,you will make out just fine.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

clww

Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

tyb525

The crankcase oil thing was meant to be a joke, I'm more knowledgeable than that ::)

Quote from: Al_Smith on August 09, 2011, 08:53:22 PM
...because it's not the oil that screws up the engine just bad tuning .

That's all that needs to be said.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

Paul_H

I'll say more.If it's not the oil but the tuning,why tell people to add more oil?

Sawguy21 is a regular poster and a quiet unassuming fellow but he has worked all sides of the small engine industry including a good stint as a saw Dr for a heli logging co in a career going back about 40 years.He'd never blow his own horn so I'll give it a go.
I figure he's forgotten more about saws and small engines that most people I know so when he pipes up on a subject like this,I tend to listen.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Al_Smith

Quote from: Paul_H on August 10, 2011, 12:20:34 AM
I'll say more.If it's not the oil but the tuning,why tell people to add more oil?

 
Now who's arguing ??? I didn't tell people to use more oil I merely stated that I do and further more reiterated that what ever people are comforatble is just fine with me .

That's kinda what on line discussions are all about the last time I knew anything about them . ;) They haven't changed have they and nobody told me ????

Paul_H

The original post-

Quote from: bendjoseph on August 06, 2011, 03:13:00 PM
I bought a Stihl chainsaw.  It is 50 to 1.  My Echo backpack blower and weedwacker are 40 to 1.  Is it ok to run the 50 to 1 in them?


If I were the original poster I'd want a yes or no answer not a bunch more questions. :-*
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Al_Smith

 :D Yes then .However------------------ :-X

Paul_H

I enjoy your posts Al,however.... ;D
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Al_Smith

 :D Well you gotta liven things up now and again .We must all do our part .

Red 93 L1 #3383

I like my Amzoil Saber 100:1 mixed about 75:1 to 80:1.  I don't take the time ot get it measured exactly, I shotgun it using the marks on the side of the bottle.  We would run it 100:1 but with the seasonal help we give our equipment a safety net by telling them to mix it around 80:1.  We run that mix in all our 2-cycle equipment at work ( 18 string trimmers, 2 pole saws, 2 hedge trimmers, 4 push mowers, 8 chain saws, 3 hand held blowers, 6 back-pack blowers, 2 cut-off saws & a tamper ).  Alot of the equipment is used by seasonal help ( high school & college students ) who wouldn't know if its running lean or rich.  All they care is that it starts and runs & if it doesn't they bring it to me or the other mechanic to fix.  The only failures that we have had have been the result of wore out equipment ( we have a few 20 year old pieces ) or operator error ( straight gas / abuse / dropping...).
Stihl's: 2-064AV's, 020T, MS 310
'93 Ford F-150 Lightning, '94 F-150 4x4, '92 F-150 4x4 '80 F-150 EFI 7.5L, '04 Expedition (Wife's)

Al_Smith


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