Holy Trees

[Mlamountain]

So I started a new job Friday.  6 acres of mainly red oak logs.  I dropped and bucked about 20 trees ranging from about 12"-24".   The problem I'm running into is almost every tree has a hole in it for almost the first 10-15 feet.   All those nice beautiful butt logs are turning into firewood logs real fast.   The trees look awesome and you cannot tell there is holes in em till they're down but this is killing me.   I just got started but I'm hoping I just hit a bad section of trees and that the majority of the forest isn't holy trees

[Cedarman]

Does the hole make the whole log bad or just the few inches of the heart?  If just the heart, then the best lumber around the outside is where the money is as if it will saw FAS lumber.

[Decked]

I worked on a piece of company land, ( 5200 acres) in NW Pa. where the oaks were just like that, holes in the butts. One indication was the large 'bells' in the bottom 5 feet of the tree. The foresters & old timer neighbors blamed it on small forest fires caused by steam locomotives in our area 100 years ago. We always trimmed the buts off till the hole got down to 2 inches, so, there's lots of hollow chunks laying in the woods for the critters ;)

[Kansas]

Around here I look for two things when looking at an oak timber. Swelled butts, and old wire. Also runoff from areas where hogs and cattle might have been. They can look great from the outside, but if cattle or hogs ran in the timber, the timber will be bad. If I can't find any evidence of hog netting or wire, usually they will be fine. Hog netting is a dead giveaway. Wire is different. If it just means that cattle were there in the summer, they may be fine. But if they overwintered year after year in a timber, the logs are usually close to worthless.

[Autocar]

Thats to bad when you lose the butt log your moneys gone. Swelled butts a sure sign of problems. Also a woodlot that only have big trees mixed with small trees are another sign that it held livestock at one time and that will cause alot of bad butts. Best way to find out what you have is carry a large hammer  [ I carry a old hatchet ] and thump them most cases you will hear that there hollow. Last Saturday I looked at a 14 acre woods. The landowner told me three generations no timber ever sold. There was 45 inch white oak and 34 inch cherry out of fifty trees three were solid. He had three bids already and I told him I wouldn't even be interested in it. So he told me what the bids were eleven thousand and eleven two was the second I asked him if any body had thumped them and he said no. 

[treefarmer87]

i run into some like that now and then. :(

[chevytaHOE5674]

Depending on the size of the hole the logs would still make grade around here. Heck I've bought veneer logs that had small end to end holes but otherwise perfect logs. As long as the hole is small enough that its still "chuckable" on a lathe it can potentially make a veneer.

[Dave Shepard]

I guess it depends on your end use of the log. If you were trying to get a pallet cant out of the middle, then you've got a problem, but if I was just sawing grade, I wouldn't have a problem with a hole. It would just mean the firewood in the middle would dry from the inside, as well as from the outside. :D

[Ron Wenrich]

I saw lots of logs with holes in them.  You are losing the low grade lumber.  Most times, the outside is good and it can be recovered.  Most likely its fire damage. 

[Mlamountain]

The mill that I'm dealing with is one of the bigger ones around here.  They have no real interest and pay almost nothing for trees with defects, sweeps, holes or bugs.   When you add that with the fact that they just lowered their prices 100 pmbf across the board I wanna send them only the best.   If I knew of someone local (Ellington ct) that wanted to buy the logs and chase the clear boards then I'd set them aside otherwise they end up on the log length firewood pile. 

[barbender]

If they just lowered their prices $100 pmbf I sure woulnd't send them only the best :( Sounds like they have way too good of a supply.

[red oaks lumber]

i'm with barbender, lower the price they have plenty of supply

[Mlamountain]

They're still paying 100 pmbf more than any other mill around and grade and scale way better.  When I'm paying the log truck and the land owner by the thousand then I'm not gonna send anything that won't make a nice grade. 

[beenthere]

Mlamountain
I've seen the term pmbf used twice now, and am wondering what it stands for?  The "p" is what I don't recognize.

[DouginUtah]

Mlamountain
I've seen the term pmbf used twice now, and am wondering what it stands for?  The "p" is what I don't recognize.

Maybe "per". 100/mbf

[Mlamountain]

Per thousand

[smwwoody]

Decked
Where you at in northwest PA. What company

Woody