Gripes my @$$

[ARKANSAWYER]

   *&#$)*@#&)*%+()*#!! then I have to work with *&$!^$)(!.
  But what really gripes me is I have to work with store bought wood because that is what the owner wanted.  Can not use my sawmill lumber I have to use the junk from the STORE.  They paid almost a dollar a board  more then my stock and this is what I get to work with.

  Now I may not know if I have spruce, fir or pine but it should be a good board since it has a stamp and came from the STORE.  I would not use the crap and made them take it back.

 I could not sell a board like that at my mill even if it is cheaper then them STORE boards.  I do not see how they can stamp that crap and sell it as good lumber.  I think when a feller gets a board like that there should be a number they can call to get the grader fired and the mill fined.  They have the coin to see that grade stamps are used and in some places it is the only lumber allowed by law.  Then they can spit out crap like these boards and say that they are good and get good money for them and keep me from selling mine as they are inferior since I have no stamp.  It just gripes me.
ARKANSAWYER

[Tom]

Me too!

It's not the grade of the wood that legitimizes it so the inspector will let you use it ........... it's the ink. :-/

[Furby]

Got ink?

[isawlogs]

Arky...
I hear you , I can't use my lumber on my house (structuraly) but I can use it on my shop ..... I've been working with wood all my life ,been sawin since 93 I know what a *&?&?% good board is but cannot use it for not having that *?(*&?(* ink on it .
 I could use my lumber if I get a architec to approve it ?????Another pencil pusher that don't know what type of wood it would be ifin it was in front of him with the bark and leaves on the branche..Maybe thats what they need the stamp for ......
O.K. thats enought of that before I get into trouble and say something I wont regret...

[VA-Sawyer]

Arky, why don't you put a little ink on your wood.  Have a stamp made up that says:
 
Inspected and Graded by AK Sawyer.
Determined NOT to be Store bought SH*T .
Approved for use in QUALITY construction .

Add a little emblem for a 'seal of approval'.

Sometimes all the inspectors want to see is ink. They don't really read it very often.  Might be fun to try it.   ;D

On the right kind of wood you could even use the initials AFPA.  Another Fine Piece of Ash     :D  :D

VA-Sawyer

[Captain]

When I built our barn, I had to have the posts and beams to support the hayloft approved by a structural engineer.  He also had to approve the plan for "rough cut pine, number 2 or better". Our local building inspector referred me.  He was allowed to take a set of plans by an architect and note them, and also provide the load calculations.

Funny thing is, nobody inspected the beams, posts or lumber before construction.  

Captain

[Fla._Deadheader]

Sic em, Arky, Sic, em, WOOF, WOOF
  Ed sent off to the SYP Grading Association, over 10 weeks ago, for their application to become a Grader. No word yet???

  We been thinkin about getting a piece of store lumber and drawing a design like it, and having our own stamp made, at Office Depot

  We gotta get a Planer first : : :

[woodmills1]

Yes junk is junk, ink or not.  Lets remember what this is all about, the pass the buck kind of liability issues that lead to things like a warning lable on a curling iron Kathy bought that said DO NOT USE WHILE SLEEPING! .  Grade stamped lumber is specified in most states so that the towns do not become responsible for building failures due to wood failure.  In the event of a loss due to the wood the company that graded it would be responsible.  For a loss due to construction the contractor would be held or for design, the architect.  This kind of liability chain doesn't really consider the appearance and ease of using construction lumber.

Now I don't agree with this approach but understand its reality in that this is the way it is.  I cant sell junk like that in the picture even as pallet wood.

New Hampshire is one of two states that has an alternative #2 construction wood program.  I took the grading course required by this program and the junk that passes for #2 is only based on calculated strengths, so things like wane over 50% of an edge are allowed.  I did however learn much about cross grain and its relationship to strength.

Now for a different look.  What do you think are the possibilities of a collapse of a single family house due to wood failure?

[shopteacher]

Well,,,, that's the nice thing about living in PoDung, Pa. no building codes. No wood, structural, electrical,plumbing licenses needed.
   This will be changing very shortly though, as Pa has mandated all communities have to adopt at least part of the BOCA code. >:(
        8)The Honorable Councilman Shopteacher 8)

[EZ]

Last summer I sold a guy some white pine for paneling and chair railing. He took it and got it kiln dry. The carpenters would'nt use it cause it was'nt stamp. He brought it back to me and ask me if I would buy it back cause it needed to be stamp. I told him to take it back to his house and tell them stupid carpenters that its not for supporting a roof up its for looks. He did and came back the next day and said they still would'nt use it, cause no stamp. I told him to fire them carpenters and I would put it up for him. He said he like to but cant. He kept the lumber and when they where done except the paneling he called me and ask if I would do it for him. $300.00 later he's was happy and so was I.
EZ

[Norm]

Iowa is right in between where decent softwoods grow so if I need construction lumber I'm stuck with the box stores. When we built our house the lumberyard would bring out a rack of dimensional lumber and I'd sort through it for usable boards. Almost half got sent back. Most 2X's looked to be SYP that by the growth rings was very young when cut. Anything bigger than a 2X6 cost an arm and my left... well you get my drift.

We don't have any building codes in the small towns and rural areas. I would love to have a semi load of good dimensional lumber to put in my shed and use around the farm and sell to the locals. You guys in areas that have a lot of softwoods what is the going price for dimensional lumber minus the ink. :D

[Bro. Noble]

$.40/bf

[Stan]

We have a chain store in the county that sell lumber like that in the picture, and a local mill that sells good lookin' southern pine. The stuff from the chain store is cheaper'n the local stuff, but nobody I know'll buy it.  

[bull]

It's all politics!!!   Big lumber lobbyist created the laws so us little guys couldn't get our share and they could keep it all and maybe slide some to the politicians....  New York has new laws regarding Rough sawn and ungraded lumber and there is also the homesteaders act !!!!  If your paying to build your house you can build it out of whatever you want... So tell all those !@#$%$%^^^&***(( rule making politicians,lobbist's and big lumber to fry ICE...... The little guy still Rules..... Maybe we need to lobby for ourselves and not let anyone tell us what we can and can't use....... Also if they don't think our lumber is up to snuff let them pull out their own wallets and prove its no good.........  Im on a roll more later. >:(

[Corley5]

My house is built almost entirely out of rough sawn big tooth aspen.  Cut the logs one day, sawed them the next and nailed the lumber together the next.  The building inspector wasn't real happy about the rough sawn construction and wanted to know who said we could use it.  When I went into the zoning office for the permits I had my sketches and their forms fiiled out and had aspen entered in the space where it asked for material to be used.  The office man signed it.  It helped that I got there 10 minutes before they closed and he was in hurry to go home ;D  The inspector couldn't do anything as we had an official signature and he'd have been pretty hard pressed to make us tear it down and start over.  Besides we used a size over on everything.  Full 2x6 walls, full 2x10 floor joist, sheathing planed to 7/8", built our own trusses from full 2x6s and 2x4s.  This house'll will still be here when ones built from store lumber and chip board and are long gone.  As for permits I got three.  One to build house.  I was supposed to have four inspection on this one.  I called for the foundation one and the structural one.  I also needed an elctrical permit to get the power hooked up and a septic permit to get the intial building permit.  I never called anyone back for any finals or occupancy permits and they never showed up on their own and I've been living here since 97 ;D.  Wouldn't be in anyones best interest for them to show up now.  Might get ugly ;)  I bought some 2x material to use at work at a lumber store a year ago and was appalled at the quality.  Even the ones that looked good warped within a day if they weren't nailed to something.

[Engineer]

When I took a timber framing class in Northeastern Ohio this past fall, we used poplar for the cants, not what I expected.  The other guys in the class were talking about taking down walnut trees, and acting like walnut was just another nuisance that needed to be removed.  Then the one guy said that he'd love to get his hands on some clear pine, as it was so expensive to get in his area.  

So I made him an offer - I'd fill up a trailer full of eastern white pine logs and send them to him, if he'd fill up a trailer with black walnut logs and send them to me.  He actually thought it was a fair deal.

If any of the rest of you midwestern guys think that's a fair deal, or even want to consider other species besides walnut (cherry, sycamore, coffeetree, gum, white oak, etc.) I'll make that offer available to ya.  ;D  In all seriousness, I got more pine than I know what to do with, and I'd like to get me some nice hardwoods.  

[Percy]

We have the same problem here in B.C. I wouldnt build an outhouse for pigs outta some of the lumber that will pass "grade" for construction. I got no problem with the liability issue BUT a competant building inspector should be able to determine wether  an ungraded piece of lumber will do the job or not. The kilndried argument is bogus as well. The piles of "graded" lumber sit outside here for months waiting to be sold, all the while its raining(we get lots of rain here) like crazy on these piles.

 I spoke with a complete stranger from the US at the Vancouver airport this Christmas about lumber tarriffs/grading/small milling. He had some interesting views on the situation. He knew very little about portable sawmills but knew that in the last 20 years, there has been better than 100,000 small mills sold in the world and a majority of them are here in North America. Collectively, this is a large force and the bigboys(sawmills) counter by having their way with grading/stamping lumber. The New York thing last year was a small victory for the small mills but expect more resistance from the biggies....They want it all for themselves.

[ARKANSAWYER]

  These 2x8's will make Electric Al cry but they are for a barn.  No ink just good lumber.  I like using my boards and do not need all of my engineering school to know that they will hold up what they are asked to.  My GreatGrandPa, GrandPa, Dad, me and my son are all carpenters so wood is known to us.  One of the reasons I bought a mill was because I was tired of building houses from crap.  I need to go to grading school and get my own stamp and bottle of ink.
  Norm I will sell you 2,000 bdft of good pine building stock for $1,500 delivered to your door.
ARKANSAWYER
P.S.  Al I am saving you some clear 1x's back.

[Don P]

I've been doing some research on becoming a stress grader, ain't gonna happen, I am pretty sure it will be the same for Ed, FDH. An individual doesn't hold the certification the facility does. I checked through NELMA and TPI, you are probably trying through SPIB. These are all overseen by ALSC
http://www.alsc.org
Among other things click the untreated program page.
There's also a link to the entry in the Congressional Record that shows how this all came to pass.

Basically a small operator isn't going to be grading as I see it.
I have no problem with an inspector not trusting my visual grading. I wonder if we would not be allowed to proof load lumber to show that it is up to the task at hand, that would seem to fit both the letter and spirit of the code yet allow an individual to exercise what I had always considered a very basic right, the ability to provide one's own shelter.

[Kirk_Allen]

ARKANSAWYER: Any info you can give me on AR laws what you can and cant do with your lumber is appreciated.

I have a job in Ward, AR with freind and most of the wood will go to the pallet factory but I know there will be a large amount of good lumber that we will sell locally.


Does anyone have some type of national listing of which states let you use your wood for construciton and which ones dont?

Also how does a person go about getting certified to grade lumber?  Its not rocket science from what I read but I'll bet there are politics involve.

I dont know of any law that would prevent you from making your own stamp with a symbol for your wood.  How that stamp is interpreted by those using it should be of little concern.  

I know I plan on stamping my lumber for identification purposes.

Thanks
Kirk

[Fla._Deadheader]

Don, unfortunately, you are probably correct. The way I see it, guys like Inspector Gadget (where is he, anyway) go to school and become a grader. They hire out to a sawmill and grade their lumber, or, work for a wholesale buyer, and grade their lumber. I believe they can hire out as a seperate entity and grade for whomever, as long as they are Certified.

  Don'T see why a softwood grader could not do the same thing. Consultants get paid to do stuff the average person can't LEGALLY do, so, Maybe we should push to find out why the little guy can't do it, as long as he is "certified" ???

[Larry]

Kirk,
It's very tough to figure out the rules in the Midwest.  I am building in NW Arkansas (Washington county) and no building permits, inspectors, or codes. ;D  Get into any of the city limits and they have the whole smear of bureaucracy.  

I live in NW Missouri and its pretty much the same.  The county I live in you have to get a building  permit but it is only a way to get a little extra money and thats it.  Three miles south into the next county and they have some of the toughest rules in the nation.

[rebocardo]

I no longer send my wife to Home Depot to buy wood because every time she comes back it looks like something suitable only for a dog house. If you like crokked dohgouses.

Once I went to buy some 2x3 and after going through whole stacks I came back empty handed. I needed to buy some pressure treated 2x10s for my truck bed, need I say the first ones on the pile did not make the grade. Even the ones I got, I would never use for a deck.

On my old house, which had gas lamps in the wall and it appeared to have been built on site including those old iron nails, it had better scrap wood on the exterior sheathing under the siding than anything you could find at Home Depot. On some of the house near the top gables,  the wood was almost 36 inches wide with no knots. Got so, I use to go to a smaller lumber yard and pay 2x the price of the Home Depot to get decent pine.

On the up side, I took all their scraps of 6" cedar at $0.40 a foot and sided my house. It was at Lynn Lumber I saw my first piece of purple heart. Man, that stuff is beautiful and so hard you can not drive a screw into it without drilling it first. Plus, it seems to be filled with some kind of wax, which probably helps slow the tropic bugs down.

[dail_h]

May as well throw my hat in the ring too. Where I work, the lumber moves by the graders on a chain same as most miss,whats different is there's this big LED display hooked to the grade reading computer. There must be some magic number,cause when the percentage of #2& better dropes below a certain percent, the grade goes up no matter what the lumber looks like.Kiln drying ain't all it's cracked up to be either. We dry to 19 to 21 %, airdried around here is about 15%. Near as I can tell the only thing kiln drying does is to set the pitch, and kill any insects so the lumber can be sold to export.
   Last year our average log size was just under 8 in. ,so you figure how much " GOOD" lumber we actually produced

[Tom]

Harold,
The problem isn't just the certification of the individual, it's the stamp.  The stamp belongs to the sawmill that the grader works for.  The mill up the road from me tells me that his cost him $300 a month.

The certifying organization doesn't like portable sawyers using a stamp or having their wood certified because the inspectors from the certifying orgainization don't know where the wood is located and that makes their un-announced inspections of the inspector difficult.  Without the certifying organizations blessings, the sawmill's stamp isn't worth doodly squat.