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proper direction of tree falling

Started by REGULAR GUY, June 22, 2011, 07:31:14 PM

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REGULAR GUY

Can anyone help me with advice on falling  Pines (approx. 34 inch dia at base and approx. 130' tall with even branch distribution), leaning very slightly the oppesite  direction of preferred direction because of a bank that would split the trees if felled wrong.  I think wedges would work but I want to be sure. There are only two trees that I'm concerned about so I dont want to break my billfold and spend money I don't have so if anyone could get back to me it would be appreciate it very much. 

Regular Guy

                                                                                                                                                           

bill m

I have used wedges to tip over pine trees of that size and bigger with up to a 10 ft. back lean so yes, it can be done.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

Banjo picker

Are the trees live or dead?  Using wedges on a dead tree can cause the hinge to snap.  Tim
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

submarinesailor

Quote from: REGULAR GUY on June 22, 2011, 07:31:14 PM
Can anyone help me with advice on falling  Pines (approx. 34 inch dia at base and approx. 130' tall with even branch distribution), leaning very slightly the oppesite  direction of preferred direction because of a bank that would split the trees if felled wrong.Regular Guy

Hire a pro with good insurence to get it on the ground and then you can deal with it on your own.  Some thing that big can go crazy on you in a heartbeat.

Bruce

blaze83

regular guy,

sounds like a fun day, are you in Ohio? I'd love to come give you a hand if you are close enough. From your description it sounds like it is very doable. It always amazes me how much movement occures with wedges.  some things to consider from my perspective:

1  go slow, your not in a race so take your time
2 i'd make my under cut about 14 inches deep in the 34 inch tree, no deeper than 17 which is half way through
3 make sure the under cut is clean, the cuts line up correctly with no over cutting "dutchman"
4 start the back cut about an inch and a half above your undercut
5 get one wedge started as soon as possible with 2 or 3 more as soon as possible after that
6 with  5 inches of holding wood left all 3 or 4 wedges should be securely started
7 if trees are dead be very aware of falling debre, bark, limbs tops etc from the vibration of  driving the wedges and even the saw
8 at the 4 inch mark of your back cut I would begin to saw a little 1/2 inch and then drive the wedges hard, alternating each wedge with a blow
9 cut a litle more and drive the wedges
10 I would not cut past 2 1/2 inches of holding wood but would turn off the saw and keepdriving the wedges until the tree fell



it takes a little time, but is much better than getting impatient and sawing of your holding wood.

as a side note, if there are structures or power lines around getting a pro to do it is recomended, if all you have as a concern is breaking up the log, I'd  go for it, it is how we learn and get better.

make sure YOU HAVE A CLEAR ESCAPE ROUT sorry for the caps but this is very important and wear chaps hardhat etc. I  was on a job where a guy took a limb on the hardhat, it saved his life, all he had was a concusion and sprained neck

have fun, and if you feel a check in your spirit listen to it and don't proceed


look forward to seeing some pictures


Steve
I'm always amazed that no matter how bad i screw up Jesus still loves me

maple flats

You must have 2 escape routes, each about 30 degrees from the direction directly opposite your planned fall. Make sure all other escapes are also clear in case it starts going the wrong way.
Is there any thing important within 135' such as a house, garage etc.? Be very careful cutting both the face side of the hinge and the back cut. If you are asking how my guess is that you do not have a bar long enough to reach thru all the way. It is not mandatory but the in experienced have a hard time making a straight cut, especially on the back. You will tend to cut too deep or not deep enough in the center. Check your saw, there is often a line molded in to sight, at 90 degrees from the bar to aim. Use it, this helps. I have cut lots of trees this big and bigger but the last one I did I cut too deep in the center from one side. This caused the tree to break the hinge and go about 20 degrees from plan. I had the area cleared and no harm was done but none the less it fell wrong and I have Game of Logging training (GOL). If you have no training it might be worse.  Submarine sailor might have the best suggestion. If you do decide to drop it yourself, have a spotter to watch and signal you, but they should be 175'+ away, and you should cut a little then check them, and continue this. Agree on hand signals ahead. This tree is not worth your life.
logging small time for years but just learning how,  2012 36 HP Mahindra tractor, 3point log arch, 8000# class excavator, lifts 2500# and sets logs on mill precisely where needed, Woodland Mills HM130Max , maple syrup a hobby that consumes my time. looking to learn blacksmithing.

REGULAR GUY

Welp, Got it done and it was a breeze! Pardon the pun!!!!! Sorry I didn't reply for a while but me and computers don't get along none to good. All I needed was a coupla wedges, climbed about 3/4 up and tied off a line with a 3 ton come-a-long just for insurance reasons but didn't need it. Nope I'm not in Ohio, I,m in the "Left Coast" (California). Thanks to all that responded. Reading all these sites on this forum sure is interesting and it's amazing all the stuff a guy can learn. Thanks again gents. Hope ya'll are doin good, workin and makey money.           Regular Guy!

Ianab

Glad it went well.

A proper plan and some wedges will get a lot of things sorted, and rigging a line, "just in case" is a good safe belt and braces approach.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Banjo picker

Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

blaze83

glad to here of the success, post some picks if you took some 8) I usually forget the camara :D

steve
I'm always amazed that no matter how bad i screw up Jesus still loves me

Collima

I'm a third generation logger in my families business.  I've been logging for 20 years.  We have never used or owned a wedge.  We always have a skid steer or skitter on the job. A skid steer can always push a tree in the right direction. If it's too big or leaning too bad we cable it.  Leave a lot of hinge!  Usually goes pretty fast. We even do a lot of street reconstructions in urban environments with overhead lines and lots of structures.
Woodmizer LT50, case SV250, lucas dsm23

chevytaHOE5674

A wedge is a whole lot cheaper and easier to use than having a skid steer or skidder on standby. Also there are many places that the equipment would have a hard time getting too where a simple wedge would get the job done.

Magicman

Since I don't have skidders and skid steers, wedges are not optional for me.  They are required, even when they are not needed.  I seldom fell any tree without wedges.  A sudden wind can come up and spoil your day.  And yes, I HAVE seen it happen.  I like "insurance" cables also.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Collima

Yes you are right. A wedge is a heck of a lot cheaper than a piece of equipment. Lol.
:)
Woodmizer LT50, case SV250, lucas dsm23

clww

I most always use wedges and no felling with winds over 20 mph if it has to be precision-placed.
We like pictures, too.
Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

saltydog

I cant imagine logging without wedges in my back pockets. you save so much time and energy and dont tie up the skidder operator .to each there own. ive always said alot of people can cut pulpwood .not many know how to cut hi grade logs. you would lose a small fortune pushing over log trees.they have to be cut off to avoid stump pull. i had a guy come work for me years ago his saw was always pinched.i asked wheres your wedge?he told me he had one once he used it to hold his kitchen door open! try them youll like them.
Proud to be a self employed logger.just me my Treefarmer forwader Ford f600 truck 2186 Jonsereds 385 and 390 husky and several 372s a couple 2171s one 2156  one stihl 066  Hudson bandmill Farquhar 56"cat powered mill.and five kids one wife.

thecfarm

I just about always put a wedge into my cut.Just a habit that I got into. If I cut 50 trees I may only need it twice,when I think I did not need it.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Magicman

I also use wedges when bucking a tree.  Sometimes limbs, etc. can put a strange twist on a tree trunk.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

bigsnowdog

Are steel wedges the only way to go, or are the plastic ones acceptable?

chevytaHOE5674

Plastic is the only way to go for felling and bucking. When you hit them with the saw they don't destroy your chain.

WildDog

I only use steel wedges for splitting post out of billets that are on the ground where the saw has no chance of hitting them. Aluminium wedges for falling and some bucking but mostly plastic for bucking/limbing. I haven't had much to do with pine only heavy eucalyptus hardwoods.
If you start feeling "Blue" ...breath    JD 5510 86hp 4WD loader Lucas 827, Pair of Husky's 372xp, 261 & Stihl 029

beenthere

Steel wedges are for splitting rounds using a maul, or when starting the split to make rails.

At one time, there were aluminum wedges for felling. Haven't seen any around since the plastic ones took over.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Ianab

Quote from: chevytaHOE5674 on November 05, 2011, 09:53:50 PM
Plastic is the only way to go for felling and bucking. When you hit them with the saw they don't destroy your chain.

Looking at the nicks and scratches on some of my wedges, I resemble that remark  :D

They do wear out eventually, but the modern plastics are pretty tough and will take a lot of abuse. You still have to consider them a 'consumable' though, and buy new ones occasionally, sort like bars and chains.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

thecfarm

Don't worry about the cost of them either. I have 3-6 iron wedges,that I have not used for years. These were used to split wood with.I would not use them for felling at all. Those plastic ones are fine. Most times you only hit them kinda easy,not like you are trying to split a piece of wood. Some use 2-5 pound hammers to drive them in,I just use a small tree or limb to drive them in,about 2-3 feet long and as big around as I feel comfortable holding. Wedges and stick are always on the tractor when needed. Most times I put the wedge in when I'm in doubt no matter what. I would much rather hit a plastic wedge than a metal one with my chain.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Piston

I am by no means even close to a professional, but I try to follow all the professional advice I read.  I never realized how helpful wedges were until I started using them a few years ago. 

I also learned to use a wedge when bucking like Magicman said.  I've gotten my saw out of pinch situations by pounding a wedge in.  Amazing how effective they are. 

Glad the tree felling worked out good for you.  It's a great feeling having them fall right where you want them.  I always put a branch or something right where I intend the tip of the tree to land, just to see how close I can get to it.  (both height/distance and direction)


QuoteWelp, Got it done and it was a breeze!
I love it when a plan comes together  8)
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

bigsnowdog

Are some people performing the initial driving in of the wedge, and then driving one or more in further as a cut progresses?


beenthere

Usually just place the wedge in the cut where you don't want the cut to close (tree setting down on the bar). When wanting the cut to open to get the tree to tip in the right direction, then the wedge is tapped further into the cut.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Kevin

Quote from: REGULAR GUY on July 09, 2011, 11:53:17 PM
climbed about 3/4 up and tied off a line        Regular Guy!

Was this a free climb?
I'm guessing that would be thirty feet or more.

Piston

Wouldn''t 3/4 of the way up a 130' tree be closer to 95-100'? 

that would be a high climb!  :)  :D
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

Kevin

Thirty feet or more has it covered.
Anything over ten is extremely dangerous and anything over thirty doesn't really matter because you're dead anyway.

Ianab

Quote from: bigsnowdog on November 06, 2011, 08:56:53 AM
Are some people performing the initial driving in of the wedge, and then driving one or more in further as a cut progresses?



If I even suspect the tree may settle back and pinch the bar, I tap a wedge into place once there is enough space in the backcut. Then just complete the cut, leaving just the hinge wood. 2 things may happen.
First is that the tree simply falls, and the wedge is left sitting on the stump. Cool
Or you need to give the wedge a bit of "persuasion" to tip the tree over. Still cool.
If it's has a bit of a back lean and sits down hard on the wedge, then you can insert a couple more, double them up etc and work on them until you have tipped the tree over.

Worst case is not setting one at all, and having the tree sit back, pinch your saw, and have no gap to get a wedge started. Then you have a problem  :-\

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

bigsnowdog

I am going to have to start trying this.

lumberjack48

I used a wedge when i fell in Montana, never owned a wedge  here in MN., never seen a wedge in my fathers logging tools ether, i mean I'm back as far as i can remember up to now.

I've been on many logging jobs over 30+yrs, i have never seen a guy carry a wedge in MN.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

chevytaHOE5674

Quote from: lumberjack48 on November 11, 2011, 12:46:33 PM
I've been on many logging jobs over 30+yrs, i have never seen a guy carry a wedge in MN.

I've bought logs from a few guys in northern Mn and they all used wedges.

There is no disadvantage to using wedges only advantages so why not use them? They allow more controlled/precise felling, reduced chance of pinching during felling and bucking and only take a couple extra minutes to use.

John Mc

Quote from: chevytaHOE5674 on November 11, 2011, 07:31:51 PM
There is no disadvantage to using wedges only advantages so why not use them? They allow more controlled/precise felling, reduced chance of pinching during felling and bucking and only take a couple extra minutes to use.

X 2 !! Felling wedges are useful tools. They give you more options for putting a tree where you want it to fall, as opposed to where it wants to fall... which can save a LOT of time when you consider the whole logging operation, not just the process of getting trees on the ground.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Magicman

I've never seen a wedge used here either.  When they hang a chainsaw, they just take a break until a skidder comes along and pushes the tree to unhang the saw.   :-\
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

lumberjack48

 A tree will fall three directions with out a using a wedge.

Disadvantage using a wedge, i can't imagine playing with a wedge when theres a skidder at my heals wanting trees on the ground.
I can't see where i could save time using a wedge, if i had a tree that i could not pull with a hinge, i would notch it, have it ready to tip, and keep on felling other trees. When i saw the skidder coming back I'd wave her over, i'd run over to the tree, a little push over it goes.

If a person needs a wedge when bucking up, he wasn't learned the does & don'ts. I've had guys with 3 saws stuck, they just couldn't get it no matter how much wood they saw up.

chevy, i don't know where you were, i worked with nothing but professional loggers, i never seen a feller with a wedge. I used to get hay from a farmer, he did a little logging on the side, he had a couple wedges laying in the pickup box.

If i had trees along a boundary line or fence that were lining back, we used the skidder   to push-em over, much faster than a wedge.

Felling out west is a another thread, you use a tool belt, you have to be prepared, your out felling way ahead of the skidding crew.

Don't get me wrong theres a place for a wedge, just not in my technique of getting timber on the ground, in a solid stand of Aspen i could tip a 100 cords a day if i wanted to fall ahead of the skidder, i loved tipping timber.




Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

BaldBob

"...i would notch it, have it ready to tip, and keep on felling other trees. When i saw the skidder coming back I'd wave her over, i'd run over to the tree, a little push over it goes."

You may be an expert faller, but if you did that on any of the jobs that I supervised, you'd be headed down the road.  Leaving a tree all but ready to fall while working on other trees is about the most serious safety violation a faller can commit.

Paul_H

All the hand fallers around here use wedges.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

chevytaHOE5674

Must be alot of nice flat ground there in Mn where your at to be able to get a skidder to each and every trees. Here we have terrain where no skidder can come to push the trees. And where its possible to get the skidder waiting around for it is very time consuming when a wedge and 3 hits on it with a short stick and the tree is on the ground laid perfectly for it to be pulled out. 

As said notching trees and then leaving them to be pushed over later is very dangerous, as a sudden gust of wind or even just gravity can cause them to come crashing to the ground when you least expect.

Also round here if the skidder was that much on your heals waiting for wood your cutting then the whole operations needs some direction. Ideally the skidder and fellers aren't in the exact same area at the same time to keep things safer.

Just about anybody can notch a tree and push it over with a skidder. It takes some talent and skill to put trees exactly where you want them with no help but from a wedge and an axe.

lumberjack48

I put my trees right where i wanted them !!

I never left the tree precut, it was only notched, i finished the cut when the skidder was pushing.

I left my job at night there wasn't a tree left in the woods, theres nothing worse than trees froze down or a foot of snow on them.

I started fresh every morning, while the skidders were warming up I'd go start laying them down.

Four of us working, 2 drivers, one topper and one feller, this is when the markets were taking a lot of wood.
When the markets tightened up i had to lay off one driver and the topper, the wife and me worked.

Most of Mn is flat, i've ran in to some steep ground, not that many days of it, expect when i logged up on the Voyage National Park, on Lake Kabetogama, that is rough ground, steep and lots of rock.
I logged the winter of 1970 on Locater Lake trail, i stayed in logging camp with the wife and 3 kids. I barged my skidder across  Kabetogama in Sept, beautiful country.
There were two other couples, and 4 French Canadians staying in camp, they were strip cutting.
I brought a logger friend of mine to work with me.
You can't buy these kind of times

Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

bill m

I guess if putting them right where you wanted them means somewhere on the ground than you don't need wedges. But if you want to put them where it makes the skidder operators job easier and not destroy all of the understory regeneration it's a good idea to learn directional felling and use wedges.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

Paul_H

I agree Bill.If you're falling a face on a side hill,one log in the wrong spot will make it miserable for the lay.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

John Mc

Quote from: lumberjack48 on November 12, 2011, 01:47:12 PM
A tree will fall three directions with out a using a wedge.

If it's got any lean to it, I'd buy up to 180˚ of choices (up to 90˚ on either side of the direction of lean). I wouldn't buy 270˚, which is what I think you may be getting at with your "three directions". Once you get past 90˚ from the lean, you are trying to go against the lean. You're going to need something to give it a push (or pull) in that case. Could be a wedge, could be a felling lever (if you feel like carrying one around), could be a skidder, come-along, etc.

QuoteDisadvantage using a wedge, i can't imagine playing with a wedge when theres a skidder at my heals wanting trees on the ground.
I can't see where i could save time using a wedge, if i had a tree that i could not pull with a hinge, i would notch it, have it ready to tip, and keep on felling other trees. When i saw the skidder coming back I'd wave her over, i'd run over to the tree, a little push over it goes.

And this is where I come back to my statement that wedges "can save a lot of time when you consider the whole logging operation, not just the process of getting trees on the ground." I'd have the feller doing the felling, rather than tying up an expensive piece of equipment doing the job the feller should be doing. I'd also want the feller to be able to put the tree down in the direction that minimizes residual stand damage, and is the most efficient direction for skidding... even if this direction is against the lean.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Ianab

I was thinking the same thing, using a $50,000 skidder to do the job a $5 wedge could do, in the same time?

It's not like you even need to wedge every tree, the ones you do, it takes maybe 30secs to set the wedge, complete the cuts normally, and give the wedge a few whacks to tip the tree. It's over before you could get the skidder turned around and lined up behind the tree.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

thecfarm

I use wedges,just because I don't have a skidder in my back pocket. For alot of guys on here we are just small scale loggers or just cut firewood.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

lumberjack48

 I'm talking about a clear cut operation.

My trees all layed the same why, i worked on finding the best method to get timber out with a pole skidder and a free hand feller 30 years, i did not want to see a skidder tied up because of poor felling methods or broken trees, broken chokers or mainline, because a feller layed the timber cross ways in the stumps, he would be down the road.

I wanted those Detroit's screaming, not setting trying to hook up a messed up drag, i made money when the trees were on the landing not laying in the woods.
I set goals every day, in a good solid stand of timber, i wanted 80 turns, sounds crazy, i was a die-hard logger, the wife was worse then me.

After i got hurt the wife kept the job going, she would load me up everyday , i sat in the pickup all day.
She had my brother falling for her, he came out of the woods and gased up the 044, than poured a cup of coffee and got in the pickup with me, we were Bs'ing , this is about 9am, we didn't break on till 10. Then all of a sudden the pickup door flies open, she grabs his cup, throws it out on the ground, she yells this isn't break time, i need you in the woods, then she looks over at me, she yells at me, what the H___ or you doing, you know better.
Dam i thought, i sure taught her well.

We hired a couple guys after i got hurt, the first night they came in i asked how much they got out, they said, they fell all day, didn't skid a thing, in other words nobody made a dime, a 0 day.
We learned real quick, that all the real loggers were all ready working, and if we could't be on the job, we were better off to park the equipment.


Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Piston

Quote from: thecfarm on November 13, 2011, 05:47:13 AM
I use wedges,just because I don't have a skidder in my back pocket. For alot of guys on here we are just small scale loggers or just cut firewood.

:D :D :D :D

Not only funny, but also a great point. 
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

captain_crunch

Here in Oregon we generaly carry 2 wedges at all times. The old steel wedges used flat 1/8 in steel plates and wedges were from 18-20 in long but they kinda went away like the hand saw. But you could tip over a big one with them
M-14 Belsaw circle mill,HD-11 Log Loader,TD-14 Crawler,TD-9 Crawler and Ford 2910 Loader Tractor

Dave VH

I wonder how many bent bars are out there because people refuse to use wedges.

I'm not a professional feller, I need my wedges!  I'm yet to get a skidder.  Maybe if I had the bigger equipment, I'd use it.
I cut it twice and it's still too short

54Dutchman

No experiance - but wedges sound like a good idea.  Where can they be purchased ???

beenthere

Chainsaw shop, farm stores, box stores that sell chainsaws....among a few.

Or click on sponsor Bailey's (left column Lucas Mill Bailey's) for some wedges (plus much more).
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

John Mc

Here's a link to a search on Bailey's site for "wedges". Lots to choose from.

I use 10 or 12" long wedges, even on smaller trees. The little "mini" wedges sold at some hardware stores are just about worthless.

Basic uses for wedges are fairly obvious, IMO, but learning to make the most of them can take some practice and training.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

thecfarm

Some use a about a 2 pound hammer to tap them in,others just use a small piece of wood. I use the wood,about 2 feet long,and about what ever feels right in my hand for roundness,maybe 3 inches. Remember these are made just to tap kinda hard,not made to use all you got. On some problem trees,if it's bigger enough 2-3 can be used to make it fall. Just go from one to the other,just by tapping them in.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

John Mc

I use the back of an axe with about a 2+ foot handle. I'm not giving it all I've got, but found a short-handled two pound hammer was just too much work for me - especially when working on larger trees or those with a lot of back lean. The longer handle lets you get more into it without straining, and lets you stand more upright when driving the wedge.

The axe is a nice size for me, since the handle fits in my "job box" that carries spare chains, tools, sharpening file & guide, stump vise, helmet, wedges, web sling to use for an anchor point, log tongs, spare mix oil, bar oil, first aid kit (quite a bit more complete than the pouch on my belt), etc. If I grab that box, a chainsaw, and some fuel, I've got just about everything I need for some felling and bucking firewood.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

chevytaHOE5674

Also if you carry an axe to pound wedges with, then you also have a tool for chopping out a pinched bar, knocking small limbs off to get to the base of a tree, knocking the "wooden wedge" out of and cleaning up your face cut, etc.

rossifp

Aluminum wedges are available.

Grandview Aluminum makes ten different aluminum wedges, and sell directly to users.
http://www.gapalum.com/chainsawwedges.html

Madsen's in Centralia, WA sell two Mag Wedges (actually aluminum)
http://www.madsens1.com


Phorester


The argument that "I've never seen a _____(pick your tool) used in ___ (pick your number) years on the job", I think ignores advances in technique, safety or production in whatever job you have. 

We are all leery of change. I'll bet the same argument about felling wedges was used when the chainsaw was invented.  "I've never seen one of those on a logging job - I'll stick to my reliable crosscut.  By God that's how my Daddy did it, and it's good enough for me too."   ;D

To me, felling wedges, bore cuts, open faced notches, etc., are improvements in technique that make felling a tree or bucking logs easier, safer, and more productive.

sawguy21

In fact there was a lot of that talk in the PNW woods when chain saws were introduced, the fallers didn't like the noise and were afraid of being put out of work. They also didn't have to spend half the night getting a cranky primitive cross cut to start ;D
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

hacknstack

I have a couple of small wedges I bought from my Stihl dealer and I agree they're next to worthless.  I'm cutting mostly dead red oak for firewood, probably averaging 22-24" DBH.  What size wedges would work best for me?

beenthere

I use the small wedges. They work fine, so am wondering what you are trying to do with yours.
I slip them in the kerf and the wedges keep the tree from sitting back and closing in on the saw blade (as well as leaning backwards some).
Usually a few taps on the wedges will raise the tree with the hinge holding, and tip it over in the direction planned.
There are larger wedges available too. Check out Bailey's in the sponsor column to the left. Lots of choices.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Ianab

Possibly with large dead trees you will need more wedges?

Is the problem that you don't get enough lift? The wedge is driven right in before the tree tips over? Then you need the bigger wedges, or more so you can stack them 2 high and get more lift.

Or you can't drive them in as the hinge wood in dead oak is so stiff? Then you need more wedges. Get a line of them started along your back cut and whack each one in turn. They will gradually go in and lift the tree over.

Maybe you need both?

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

hacknstack

Unfavorable lean is probably the most common condition.  I'm thinking a few 8-inchers might be good to have - the two I have are only 5 1/2".

thecfarm

I use the 8" ones. The stihl dealer should have them too. They really should carry 3 diffeant sizes. Try one to see if you like it better,if not,you wasted 5-6 bucks.  ;D
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

MHineman

  I log alone usually so there isn't a skidder operator to pull the tree over while I cut.
  I cut marked trees not a clear cut and have to protect other trees so I have limited places to drop the tree.
  Typically it would be impractical to get in position with the skidding winch to pull the direction I want to fell the tree and take longer than using wedges.

  So... I use wedges.  For trees with a obvious lean in the direction I want it to fall, I just cut it.  If the wind is consistent and in the direction I want it to fall and the tree is balanced, I just cut it. 

  When the tree leans the wrong way or has a little more branches on the wrong side or the wind is from the wrong direction, I use wedges.

  For trees under 20" DBH, a wedge on each side in the back cut is usually all I need.  For larger trees I put the 2 wedges in after the back is 2/3 done and then cut more.  If needed I can then put 2 wedges in together (one above the other) on each side.  That gives you a lot of leverage.

  This may seem like a lot of work or takes a lot of time, but it takes longer to talk about than to do it.

  Dead trees are dangerous.  The hinge may pull out and let the tree fall the wrong way rather than controlling the fall.  The obvious danger is falling dead branches.  Wear a hardhat and have a spotter watching the tree while you cut or just skip it and move on.

  Hollow trees are even more dangerous.  It's very difficult to know until it's too late where (or if) there is enough sound wood to control the fall.  I try to cut high when cutting a hollow tree to get a greater amount of solid wood.

  I think most of my wedges are 10", but I have a few 8" wedges.  I do not use any smaller than that.

  I always put 5 wedges in my pouch when I head out.  For the tree stump to be like a clock face with 6 Oclock being the center of the notch, I have a wedge at 2 and 10.  If the tree needs help to go over, another wedge at 1 and 11.  That usually frees up the first 2.  2 wedges together are then put in at 12.  The 5th wedge is to replace the one that's gets dropped in the snow, mud, weeds, won't come out of the cut, etc.

1999 WM LT40, 40 hp 4WD tractor, homemade forks, grapple, Walenstein FX90 skidding winch, Stihl 460 039 saws,  homebuilt kiln, ......

Ianab

I think I've got 4 larger ones and 2 smaller. I've had them all in play a few times getting enough lift to persuade a larger tree against it's natural lean. The small ones are probably not enough for those bigger trees.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

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