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Best Way to mill dimensional lumber?

Started by dbnair, June 18, 2011, 10:38:29 PM

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dbnair

Hi,
I am milling about 30,000 board feet of eastern white pine for a large barn/arena. Most of the lumber will be 2x12, 2x8 and 2x4, with some board and batten as well.

What is the best technique for sawing dimensional lumber?

1. Just slice the log in 2" slices down to the bed and then edge that lumber on the mill or an edger?
or
2. Or cut and rotate the log, getting down to a nice cant and then sawing the lumber.

I am open to advice.
Many thanks,
Grant

Tom

That's what makes sawing such an adventure, every log is different.

It's my opinion that the best option is to saw the outside boards (jacket) off of the log with the goal being a  4 sided cant that will allow the maximum sized lumber to be cut through and through and/or produce multiples of the smaller sizes.

Whether you make several runs before off-bearing will be up to you, but a good off-bearer will be able to stay ahead of you on the smaller sizes.  If you have drag-backs, pull'em back and let him put them on the stack as you make another run.

With that many board feet in the job, and as hot as it's been everywhere, don't hesitate to turn the saw off and let the off-bearers hydrate themselves and cool off some.  Production isn't more important than their health.  :)

Jim_Rogers

First of all you need to look at each log and try and plan out what you want to get out of it.
For example you can mill a 2x4 with a three inch knot in it but it won't be strong. So you need to make sure your knots are small for the small size lumber.

Next you need to make sure you don't have a lot of "spike" knots. Maybe Tom can post one of those nice photos he has of lumber that shows what a spike knot looks like. Spike knots weaken the lumber and you should try and cut the logs so that there aren't any spike knots. This can be difficult at times.

When you plan on making up a cant for sawing out some standard width stuff, make sure you add the blade thickness to the thickness dimensions. For example you can't get 5- 2" pieces from a 10" tall cant. You need to have the cant 10 1/2" tall so that you have some lumber for the kerf cuts between the planks.

I personally try and make the cant up first and then from the other outer pieces make up some narrower stuff.

Also, you need to read the cant as you saw it. If you see some of the planks moving as you mill them there maybe some stress in the log. You may need to cut one on one face and then roll 180° and cut one from the other side to release the stress. If you don't then the log may flex and you'll end up with thick and thin lumber. I sometimes check the bed rails to see if the log has lifted up off the rails, some where. This will show that there is stress in the log.

I sometimes cut to near the pitch/heart and then roll it over 180°, and cut in to the last piece. That way if there is any distortion it is usually in the last piece it is the lowest quality piece as it has the pith/heart in it. As this piece usually will crack to the pith/heart.

Good luck with your project.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Magicman

Carefully watching the cant for signs of stress and flipping as necessary is very important to yielding quality lumber.

Never split a cant through the pith.  Lumber with the pith on one edge will do bad things.

If you have read the log correctly, the first face opened is the most important cut that you make.




Splitting the cant for 2X4's.  Then turn 90° for the final saw through.



Notice that the pith is centered in the center cant.



Cant split for 2X6's
Sometimes all three cants must be flipped 180° or sometimes only one or two if stress is evident.



Notice that the end of this cant has raised off of the bed rail.  It must now be flipped 180°.

Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

paul case

here is a place for different strokes for different folks, or mills if you will.
on a manual mill  less flipping means more sawing. but also i have 2 0r 3 clamps for each cant longer than 8' and cant spikes that will help hold the cant down. still i have to watch for the cant to bow up and if it does you have to flip.
i generaly am able to saw the whole log by cutting a square cant by taking barkedged boards off each side to get to the desired size cant ,or cants, and then sawing through and through producing edged lumber right off the mill. however i have seen many production mills that breakdown logs into barked boards needing edged and cants to be further processed by a resaw or gang ripsaw. the key to how efficient your operation works is depends on how much equipment and help you have. if you only have a sawmill i wouldnt imagine that sawing a log through and through and then edging the lumber on the mill wouldnt be fast or produce the best lumber plus this would require a lot of handling. mill and an edger may work better with that kind of plan, but even the big mills square a cant on the mill and then cut boards from that. cutting through the bark is not the best idea and getting a cant reduces this.
i would imagine even if yours is a manual mill in about 20 days you will have all that lumber cut. get a fan or lights so you can work when it is cooler. sawing now  here is a sweat fest.  pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

bandmiller2

Grant,the guys have pretty much nailed it.I've found it best to cut the larger dimention stuff first.Its handy if boards are needed to they can be made as you get down to the cant.Its a real crap shoot for sawyers as each log is different,thats why we're paid the big bucks,yea sure. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Magicman

Thanks for that reminder Frank.  I've had customers that wanted to save a special log for a special project for last.  My response is "lets do it first".  That way, if the log is no good for one reason or another, that special project can be sawed from another log.

There are many threads here detailing opening logs with heart check, sweep, large knots, forked logs, etc.  Do some searches dbnair, and then ask some more questions.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

sgschwend

Cutting can be the easiest part if:
you have a good way to: move logs, stacked lumber, and get ride of the scrap including picking up the sawdust.  A 30,000 bf job can produce a lot of byproduct. 
Steve Gschwend

sjgschwend@gmail.com

woodmills1

What do you have for a mill?

with your order on my LT70 I would use the computer to put me at the 12, 8 or 4 that was ordered,   using 2 faces



then cut 2 inch, only edging the ones that did not come clean to the other faces

fast cut very few bad 2 bys
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

dbnair

Hello,

thank you all for your advice. I have a 2008 lt40 hydraulic for my mill, then a new holland tn75a 65 horsepower tractor with loader and forks to help me with the logs and material handling. All the byproduct will be used on the farm, sawdust for the horse bedding, scraps for heat or chipping to mulch.

All the logs are 16' eastern white pine, about 24" to 3o" round.

I was also considering adding an accuset 2 or simple setworks to the mill to help with this job. Any preferences?

The lumber is going to be graded after by a certified grader for use in my buildings.

Also, trying to decide whether to do straight rough sawn 2x4 full size, or 1-3/4x 3-1/2 to match up better with standard hardware, etc.

Take care,
Grant

Magicman

With "lumber yard" dimensional lumber, 12d or 16d nails will pass through nailing two together.   If you saw "full size" you will have trouble finding nails.  I can't imagine using 4" nails to build something, plus I couldn't use the nailgun.

In 10 years of custom sawing, I have only sawed one full size 2X4 & 2X6 job.  After that customer finished the barn, he told me "never again would he use full size lumber".   :-\
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Rancher

MM, I do cut a lot of full sized boards but they mostly go for livestock fencing or outbuildings...extra strength matters.
Dave
If you're honest you don't have to trust your memory.

redbeard

I build alot with full dimensions and use nail guns just make your bottom and top plates nominal.4" and 6" walls really makes a structure solid.
Whidbey Woodworks and Custom Milling  2019 Cooks AC 3662T High production band mill and a Hud-son 60 Diesel wide cut bandmill  JD 2240 50hp Tractor with 145 loader IR 1044 all terrain fork lift  Cooks sharp

Dodgy Loner

When we built our saw shed, we used full-thickness 2x4s and 2x6's. It made sense, since we were just using them to build the trusses. Of couse it was stronger, but more importantly, we were able to use a longer nail to attach the plywood gussets. If I ever have to saw lumber for trusses again, I will probably use full-thickness 2x.

For regular stick framing, though, 2" thick lumber is a pain. I just saw it on the 6/4 scale
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

LPitt

Does anyone saw there longs into cants for dimensional lumber and set them aside and come back later and spend the day just sawing the cants into lumber? I've been thinking about trying it this way. May not be any better but that second day you sure could put out some board footage.   
Linn Lumber 1900 hyd, Bobcat T190 with grapple ect., Kubota MX 5100, Ford 555E backhoe, Sthil ms460, home made wood splitter, and more projects than I can count.

Tom

What it amounts to is double handling.  The bad thing is that cants don't roll, so you will need to pick them up to put them back on the mill to get back were you were the day before.

Some have tried sawing cants and storing them until they get an order for dimensional stuff, but I found that the cants will dry out and crack, so you lose some of the outside boards to the splitting.

It seems to me that the best thing to do is finish the log once you have  it on the mill. :)

beenthere

LPitt
A bit disappointing when you come back the next day and the cants are not straight anymore, so you end up with thick/thin dimension. But let us know how it works for you. ;)

Also, the extra work of removing the cant, stacking it, then re-loading it the next day to saw seems a bit "like work". Or do you have a cumulator that stacks and then feeds them back onto the mill ?

What's the plan?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Magicman

Since I buy no logs and sell no lumber, my sawing is relatively simple.  I move in on a job, saw what the customer wants, and move on.   :)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

WDH

You are like Palidan.  Have mill, will travel  ;D.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Doc Hickory

WDH- wow, you gave your age away with the Paladin remark!   ;D
Feed a fire, starve a termite...

WDH

That is a fact.  The younger members will just have to look it up  ;D.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

ljmathias

Yeah, I almost pointed that out to WDH also but figured, why show my age by knowing what he's talking about?  Oh, well, I'll forget to remember it tomorrow anyway. ;)

Lj
LT40, Long tractor with FEL and backhoe, lots of TF tools, beautiful wife of 50 years plus 4 kids, 5 grandsons AND TWO GRANDDAUGHTERS all healthy plus too many ideas and plans and not enough time and energy

redbeard

Quote from: LPitt on July 01, 2011, 10:20:51 PM
Does anyone saw there longs into cants for dimensional lumber and set them aside and come back later and spend the day just sawing the cants into lumber? Yes I do it all the time,  being stationary and using hydraulic toe boards to raise the cant. Up and take it off with the tractor forks makes it more effective. Sometimes I don't. Know what boards are going to sell so I leave it in cants. I save on blades doing it this way also. Sometimes if customer is there helping and he has 6-7 logs I can grade the cants for him some are better than others for the parts he is looking for.
Whidbey Woodworks and Custom Milling  2019 Cooks AC 3662T High production band mill and a Hud-son 60 Diesel wide cut bandmill  JD 2240 50hp Tractor with 145 loader IR 1044 all terrain fork lift  Cooks sharp

Meadows Miller

Gday

And welcome to the forum Dbnair  ;) ;D ;D 8) With the sawing component the boys have got you sorted  ;) ;D 8) a trick you can use if you want to use full size studs is to cut your top and bottom plates at 1 &1/2  no problems with using standard nail length in a framing gun then  ;)

Regards Chris
4TH Generation Timbergetter

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