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Norwood Question

Started by spokeshave, January 05, 2004, 02:08:40 PM

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spokeshave

OK, I am sure you guys get this type of question all if the time. So, to help head off some questions, let me try to offer as much information as I can. I am new to this forum, but have been reading it for a couple of weeks. I am interested in a small-scale mill, and I am considering the Norwood 2000 with the 23 HP Briggs. My intended primary uses are milling flooring and beams for a new house to soon be constructed, and milling stock for my small-scale hand-crafted furniture business. I don't intend to produce commercial lumber, though I expect that I will sell what I don't use for my shop. I have 42 acres of heavily wooded land that has copious hardwoods with my name on them. I will also be buying a front-load tractor that I hope will be sufficient for moving logs around. I don't *think* I care too much about automatic feed or setworks, and I *know* I can't afford hydraulics. I am not averse to putting it together, and In fact, I think I would enjoy the process.

I have searched the forum for "Norwood" and read everything that I found. I think I am ready to pull the trigger. My questions are:

1) Does anyone have any last-minute words of caution or encouragement about the Norwood mill?

2) Has anyone had any, or know of any bad experiences with this mill?

3) Is there anything else that I should know before I make the final decision?

I sincerely appreciate any help in this matter. I am new to the world of sawmilling, but I have been woodworking for 25 years. I realize that I still know very little about sawmills, though I am learning. Any comments are greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Tim

Tom

Tim,
I don't have a Norwood but do have a friend with one. He does pretty much what you say you're intentions are.  He makes bedroom furniture and cedar chests.  He sells an occassional board and saws an occassional log for someone else.

He saws three or four logs a day, when he is sawing. Then he may go a couple of months without sawing anything.  His Norwood has done a good job and he loves it.  He still calls me if he has a tremendously large log because I have hydraulic log handlling and he, at 83, doesn't want to work with something that big.

He is setup under a saw shed which keeps the sun off.  He has a pole barn to dry beneath.  He designed a log ramp that is a little higher than his mill and made from a couple of old telephone poles that makes it easy for him to load logs onto the mill.  He uses a tractor to put the log on the ramp.  He left enough room around the ramp and under the shed that he can use the tractor to drag sawdust etc out and keep the place clean.  He has a son, daughter and two grandchildren who like to help and that makes a big difference too.


He hasn't had too much luck with Norwood's sharpener.  I have sharpened a few of his blades on my woodmizer sharpener.  

I have discussed his using a sharpening program with him and it seems to be the most prudent thing for him to do.  His blade usage is low.

dan-l-b

Hey Tim,  Welcome to the forum 8) 8)  I am a novice in the sawmill business, having sawn for two years part time.  I started with a Norwood Mill... :) Glad I did.  Putting the thing together was a three day project in a decent shop with air tools..Learned alot about the workings of the mill though.  Accuracy was a little bit of a problem- eyeing the rule always left room for error.  Adjusting the blade lube was also a frustration.  Thirdly, I put my own rail on, the length of the expanded metal base, because I wasn't sure whether the little bump every four feet would show up in my lumber.  :)  I bought the sharpener and set package and quickly found out the sharpening is an art and for me the learning curve too high. :(  Save your money on that part and use Wood mizer or Suffolk blades.  Both will send you a few free of charge and Wood mizzer offer a resharp program where the blade goes through a 4 step process to be sharpened.  Blades are cheaper than those from the factory toooo ;)  My 20 HP had trouble running in cold weather.  I don't really know what that was about ???
The picture is the new owners and my first mill
Another thing was I couldn't cut telephone poles-  the blade just went where it wanted.
I did produce some beautiful lumber however.

pasbuild

Hi Tim
 I'v had my Norwood for about three years now, my only complaint is the Honda 20hp that I got with my mill it has never run right but you wont have that problem.
  I use my mill much like you intend to and find it meets all of my needs. I have had two different circle mills in the past and consider my Norwood a step up for my needs.
  I have there sharpener and find it to do a good job. The blades I got from Norwood were of poor quality and would not recomend  them.
  I didn't do a lot of research before buying my mill so i can't tell you the + & - between Norwood and others but I can tell you that I'm happy with my mill.
If it can't be nailed or glued then screw it

shopteacher

Spokeshave- Can't tell you anything about the Norwood, only thing I know about them is what I read in a magazine add.
However, I can welcome you to the forum and hope your like me in finding a lot of good information, people and even a lot of quips to laugh at. Whichever mill you chose I hope it works real good for you and you come to experience the joy and love of sawing  as alot of us have. Good luck, Welcome aboard and Happy sawing.
  Oh, my mill is orange and I like it alot.
Proud owner of a LT40HDSE25, Corley Circle mill, JD 450C, JD 8875, MF 1240E
Tilt Bed Truck  and well equipted wood shop.

Mark M

Go for it Tim you won't be sorry. An air wrench comes in handy when you start putting the track together cause there are a lot of bolts. Did you find the picutes I posted when I put mine together? If not here is a link: My Sawmill

Mark

dan-l-b

Tim, Another situation I had with the Norwood was with the dog and clamping system, I had trouble getting cants square.   :( :(  I thought it was the mill.  The other day a man that works for me did some sawing on my woodmizer and all his posts were out of square too.....Sometimes an inexperienced operator/sawyer will have all kinds of excuses and shortcomings and blame it on the mill ::) ::)( thats what I did :D :D)  Be patient and have a good and safe time. 8) 8) 8)

spokeshave

QuoteGo for it Tim you won't be sorry. An air wrench comes in handy when you start putting the track together cause there are a lot of bolts. Did you find the picutes I posted when I put mine together? If not here is a link: My Sawmill

Mark

Wow!. I missed those pictures. That's great. It actually looks like it would be fun to put together. It looks like it went together nicely, too. Thanks for the help, everyone.

Tim

DeepWoods

Tim, I have just recently purchaced a Norwood with the 23 hp Briggs.(Glad I went with the biggest they offer)  I also had some of the same questions you have about the Norwood, and I got some very good replies on this forum.  The people here are absolutely great!!  I have always felt welcomed here.  I had a great time assembling it and would go the same route again if I had to do it over.  One thing you should make sure you had is an impact wrench as mentioned before.  I can't imagine tightening all of the 500 plus nuts and bolts by hand.  I would also go with the water solenoid valve that MarkM has on his Norwood.  I will be ordering one soon, as I just used my mill for the first time last weekend, and Norwoods valve is poorly made.  You can't control the flow very well.   The last thing I can offer is that the customer service from Norwood is good.  I had a couple of questions about the assembly process and they were very willing to help over the phone.  I think was a good investment for me.  
Norwood LM2000 with 23 HP Briggs and 21 foot track, Hand Built Logging Arch, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener and Setter. 48" Xtreme Duty Logrite Cant Hook.

Kelvin

Tim,
I think that norwood makes a great mill.  I've played around with them and they do work nice for a small mill.  The one thing i would urge you to seriously consider is the fact that its probably not the most economical way to go.  Unless you have tons of money it would pay to have someone come saw your lumber for you.  I would rent a skid steer with a grapple loader for a day or two after you had dropped all the logs you wanted to start with, and bucked them.  use the skid steer to make a perfect log pile for the sawyer to work next to.  Next call in the mill and have 2 buddies there to help off load.  You should have all the lumber you would ever need.  The question i guess would be.  Do you have anything else you would like to spend the $8k for the mill on and the $15k for the loader tractor?  Do you like making furniture, or making lumber?  If you hire someone else and rent equipment you have no need to maintain, and care for anything else.  Its a whole new set of skills to be a good sawyer.  Someone with skill can produce up to 25% higher grade out of the same log.  Someone who has no idea can lower the grade to worthless if they aren't careful.  There is a lot to learn in lumber sawing, drying and processing.  Like the fact that a lot of the material that comes out of your logs is low grade.  People look at there wood lots and add up the bd ft value as if it would all be select grade.  There is a lot to think about.  I would caution you unless you don't have a lot of debt already and are itching for some stuff to play with.  Sounds like you probably are buying.  Something to think about.  Good luck!
Kelvin

Jeff

There is a big plus to owning ones own mill that I don't have. Walking by it and just being able to say.

Yep. there she is. Thats my sawmill. :)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

pasbuild

  You will spend just as much on your 4 wheeler, snowmobile or motorcycle thats why I call my Norwood my toy.every guy has to have his toys :)
If it can't be nailed or glued then screw it

spokeshave

Kelvin:

Thanks for the input. I really appreciate it. I have already considered all of your points, and they are good ones. You are off a bit on the economics. I may well spend 8K on the mill, but I won't spend anywhere near 15K for the tractor.I already have a line on an old Ford for about 3K. It runs fine, just doesn't look great. I will need a tractor anyway, since I have about 8 cleared acres that I will farm, and there will be numerous maintenance tasks that the tractor will be needed for, So that part of the economic equation goes away.

While I suppose that I might never completely recover the entire cost of the mill, I feel certain that between beams for the shop, flooring for the new house, and stock for my woodworking, and considering that the money for the mill goes into capital equipment that can be deducted and will always have some value, I will at least break-even economically. At the same time, I learn a new skill and get to play with a great big power tool. I recognize that it is a whole new skill, but over the years, I have acquired several skills. I am interested in acquiring at least one more.

This is one of those investments that could easily be argued either way. I can't afford a $30,000 fully hydraulic unit, but I can afford a $8000 small mill. I have carefully weighed the pros and cons, and I think It will get one.

Jeff B: That's a big plus too ;D

Tim

pasbuild

Tim
  This is how I see it you can put your money in the bank & earn 2% or you can put your money in stocks and lost it or you can put it under your pillow and have it forever OR you can buy that Norwood mill walk by it and say yup thats my mill. ;)
If it can't be nailed or glued then screw it

WV_hillbilly

   If you have your own mill even if it's a small one  you could say that you sawed those  on your mill with  pride of doing it yourself.  Anyone can pay to have something done for them if they have the moeny. I 'm the do it yourself kind of guy and I 'll bet Tim is also .  I would like for nothing more than to cut trees from my place  , mill them on my sawmill ( sometime soon)  and., make them into something  .  ;)
Hillbilly

Norm

The banker always asks similar questions when you ask for money to buy equipment. But I drive by his place and he has a bunch of power toys himself.  :D

One of my favorite toys errr tools is my sawmill. Even after having it for 3 years now I still have a ball using it. Patty and I will spend a weekend slicing up some trees off the farm and when we get done at the end of the day we have something to show for it. My day job doesn't have that kind of satisfaction. Plus it's really cool to tell people you own a sawnill. Most just look at you funny. ;)

Kelvin

Tim,
I just gotta add one more thing.  The most expensive tractor i've ever bought was an old Ford 3000 loader that didn't look good but appeared to run well.  I would urge you to look for an old japanese tractor, maybe even gray market.  I bought my Ford 3000 gas, for $3,500 and put $5,000 into it in 8 mons time, and still wasn't sure it was any good.  I auctioned it off at an equipment auction, and sure enough the guy who bought came looking for me after awhile to ask if i knew it was about to loose its clutch when i sold it.  I really didn't and was sorry to hear of the problem.  A 1980's vintage yanmar, or john deere (made by yanmar) with a loader should be found for $7500 and run roughly 4,000 hrs before engine rebuild.  Mine has been the most reliable thing i've ever bought.  I'd get a JD 950 or JD 1050.  4x4 diesels have more traction and torque than any gas tractor 2x their size.  I will bet you that in 2 years you could've bought a better tractor when you start working that old ford, unless by old you mean 10 years old and not 60's vint.  Good luck and happy sawing.  It sure is nice to have a sawmill i will agree with that!
Kelvin

Larry

Tim,
You're in the same position I was in 1994.  We had a small woodlot, tractors for farming, and I had quite a bit of experience woodworking.  I had been looking at chainsaw mills, Timberking circle mills, and various band mills for about three years.  Finally settled on a Kasco mill.  Didn't know a thing about milling or sawmills and didn't have anybody to teach me.  Read every book I could get my hands on and meant a sawyer along the way that helped me out.  Sawmill forums started to sprout on the internet.  Learned a lot from them and continue to learn.

Never ever regretted my decision to buy a mill.  I'm building kitchen cabinets this winter.  The cabinets are a lot higher quality than what is available at the big box store and also a lot cheaper.  Really enjoy cutting the tree, sawing the log, and putting the lumber into something both useful and beautiful.

To get a little experience pick some low grade logs and saw for construction lumber to build the kiln you are going to need.  Also cut a bunch of sticks for either air or kiln drying.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

D._Frederick

Spokeshaver,
Looking at the pictures Mark has posted of his Norwood mill, one of the short falls I see with using a 23hp B & S is that only one drive belt is being used. The chart shows about 12 hp. for a 7 inch diameter  pulley  using B size Vee belt. If you are doing a lot of tough sawing, you will need a supply of belts in supply.

I think that it is a challenge to bolt this Norwood mill together and to get it aligned correctly, if the track is not  straight, your board won't be neither.

For 5K, the field is wide open for a lot of other mills.

cluckerplucker

Spokeshaver  If you are a doit your self then build your own mill for less then a grand .Then you can really be proud of your accomplishment.Cut the tree ,build the mill and build the project.  cluckerplucker
cecil

Frickman

Welcome to the forum Spokeshave! I ran a little mill, I think a Norwood, at the next farm over one time. It was a nice little machine, and sawed good lumber. It involved alot of work though, as everything was manual. If you want to just saw a log now and then it was fine though. The neighbors were trying to saw semi-commercially over the winter and soon sold the mill, as they couldn't cut fast enough.

There was one feature about their mill that created a lot of work. The track was in sections, and they were prone to twist and become misaligned, especially when set up on the ground. This can be avoided if the mill is setup permanently on concrete. Perhaps the Norwood has a stiffer track now. The one I ran needed a lot of adusting on the alignment, usually by yours truly.

When you setup your mill, hide it behind the barn and don't tell anyone you have it. If you don't, you'll find that your log pile will reproduce itself and grow larger while you are not looking. Then you will never get your own sawing done.
If you're not broke down once in a while, you're not working hard enough

I'm not a hillbilly. I'm an "Appalachian American"

Retired  Conventional hand-felling logging operation with cable skidder and forwarder, Frick 01 handset sawmill

Pretend farmer when I have the time

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